18 replies to this topic

[Daulmakan]

Just a few things I thought I should mention (I'm playing v3 with Easytutu BTW).

* When Karaea takes the berries, she takes the whole stack in a character's inventory, instead of only one. I don't know if this is intended, but if each party member only has one berry, she'll take only one at a time. I'd like if she could just take one in the first case too.

* Slightly related to the above, Karaea doesn't destroy the berries when she gets them. This leads to an awkward, potentially exploitable situation, in which if her inventory is filled with berries, when you give her boots to be upgraded she'll just drop them (so you could pick them again if you were so inclined, not to mention it appears weird gamewise).

* Also, when your items have already been upgraded and she's about to give them to you, the responding dialogue for the PC is missing, like shown in this image:



Since there's no response, the game is potentially frozen and can't be continued. AFAIK, the only way to get out of that dialogue window is either press 1 or click with the mouse in the spot where the answer should be:



Since there's no indication to those resolution avenues (I found them just by chance), I think this should be fixed for next version.

* This is purely a cosmetic pet peeve of mine. The Thrice-Armored Boots provide equal protection against all types of AC, but does it separately for each type, so the bonus doesn't appear in the small shield in the main character screen. Could this be changed for next version?

* Small typo in Setup.tra:

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@279 = ~[...]While this is not known to be true, the agate is ground and used both in preparing potinos and in creating magical markings.~

potions.


Thanks for the mod.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Daulmakan, on Nov 19 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

* This is purely a cosmetic pet peeve of mine. The Thrice-Armored Boots provide equal protection against all types of AC, but does it separately for each type, so the bonus doesn't appear in the small shield in the main character screen. Could this be changed for next version?

There is a small difference between the +3 to Armor Class, and +3 to each attack type AC, the difference is that the normal AC is limited, while the attack type AC is not...

[Daulmakan]

Jarno Mikkola, on Nov 19 2009, 06:59 PM, said:

Daulmakan, on Nov 19 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

* This is purely a cosmetic pet peeve of mine. The Thrice-Armored Boots provide equal protection against all types of AC, but does it separately for each type, so the bonus doesn't appear in the small shield in the main character screen. Could this be changed for next version?

There is a small difference between the +3 to Armor Class, and +3 to each attack type AC, the difference is that the normal AC is limited, while the attack type AC is not...

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

[Miloch]

Daulmakan, on Nov 19 2009, 01:47 PM, said:

* When Karaea takes the berries, she takes the whole stack in a character's inventory, instead of only one. I don't know if this is intended, but if each party member only has one berry, she'll take only one at a time. I'd like if she could just take one in the first case too.

I would do this if I could, but I can't think of a way to do it, because TakePartyItem takes everything in a single stack as per the IESDP:

Quote

TakePartyItem()
This action takes a single instance of the specified item from the party (unless the item exists in a stack, in which case the entire stack is taken).

In fact, I don't think we can even account for the number of berries she's taken in a stack - they'll probably be considered "1 berry" no matter what. The workaround is as you say, to "unstack" them (even on the same character should work). I guess I could also make them non-stackable but that'd be even worse I think. Though I suppose I could add a "berry bag" or something that holds an unlimited number of unstacked berries but... meh... new items/BAMs...

Incidentally, how many berries have you found in your Tutu game so far? Just curious what our random weighting produces.

Quote

* Also, when your items have already been upgraded and she's about to give them to you, the responding dialogue for the PC is missing... Since there's no response, the game is potentially frozen and can't be continued. AFAIK, the only way to get out of that dialogue window is either press 1 or click with the mouse in the spot where the answer should be

This should be fixable, but I'm a bit perplexed because I don't think a reply was intended, and it should work the same way it must have when she told you to come back later (unless you had to do the same thing there). That block is:

IF
~~ agkar_up_armored_do
SAY @235 /* ~Remember, twelve and a half thousand more for the finished boots. Come back the day after tomorrow.~ */
++ ~~ DO ~
TakePartyItem("aggem09")	 DestroyItem("aggem09")
TakePartyItem("%tsu%boot04") DestroyItem("%tsu%boot04")
TakePartyItem("agboot21")	DestroyItem("agboot21")
TakePartyItem("agboot22")	DestroyItem("agboot22")
TakePartyItem("agboot23")	DestroyItem("agboot23")
TakePartyGold(12500)		 DestroyGold(12500)
SetGlobalTimer("agkar_upgrade_timer","GLOBAL",13000)
SetGlobal("agkar_upgrade","GLOBAL",7)~ EXIT
END

Whereas the block you've indicated is:

IF
~~ agkar_up_armored_deal
SAY @243 /* ~Great! Here are your new boots. Happy to help, <GABBER>. Come back again soon!~ */
++ ~~ DO ~
TakePartyGold(12500)
SetGlobal("agkar_upgrade","GLOBAL",3)
GiveItemCreate("agboot35",LastTalkedToBy(),0,0,0)~ EXIT
END

Both cases have the ++ ~~ DO ~ (etc.) and the same format unless I'm missing something. I think GeN1e coded this, so maybe he can look at it if someone can pry him away from NWN2/DA or whatever. It'll have to be fixed in Tomthal and Aurora's upgrade dialogue too.

As long as we're looking at that, maybe someone can answer this. If you're doing a DestroyGold(), do you also need a TakePartyGold() before it, or does that duplicate the amount taken? According to the IESDP, DestroyGold() should remove and destroy the amount from the party as it is, though maybe it's not accurate.

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* This is purely a cosmetic pet peeve of mine. The Thrice-Armored Boots provide equal protection against all types of AC, but does it separately for each type, so the bonus doesn't appear in the small shield in the main character screen. Could this be changed for next version?

The only reason I did it like this is because it provides -2 against all damage types *except* missiles, where it provides a -5 bonus (as does boot04 from the original game IIRC). But this would be the equivalent of giving it an AC -2 for all damage types and an extra -3 vs. missiles, so I could do it like that too (makes a bit more sense I suppose).

The other stuff is fixed locally - thanks for the reports. There'll be a new version as soon as the WeiDU testing is complete and the bigg releases v212.

[Daulmakan]

Miloch, on Nov 19 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

I would do this if I could, but I can't think of a way to do it, because TakePartyItem takes everything in a single stack as per the IESDP: In fact, I don't think we can even account for the number of berries she's taken in a stack - they'll probably be considered "1 berry" no matter what. The workaround is as you say, to "unstack" them (even on the same character should work). I guess I could also make them non-stackable but that'd be even worse I think. Though I suppose I could add a "berry bag" or something that holds an unlimited number of unstacked berries but... meh... new items/BAMs...

I feared as much. I'll stick to making them unstack before selling them, then (and yes, the stacking should stay, less work for you and easier inventory management FTW).

Quote

Incidentally, how many berries have you found in your Tutu game so far? Just curious what our random weighting produces.

Hmm, sorry, can't remember for sure. I'll remember to count them for my next playthrough. Since I'm at it, any other item you'd like me to keep track of?

Quote

The only reason I did it like this is because it provides -2 against all damage types *except* missiles, where it provides a -5 bonus (as does boot04 from the original game IIRC). But this would be the equivalent of giving it an AC -2 for all damage types and an extra -3 vs. missiles, so I could do it like that too (makes a bit more sense I suppose).

Yeah, that's what I meant. But Jarno's got a good point for leaving it like it currently is. Your call.

[Miloch]

Daulmakan, on Nov 20 2009, 02:57 AM, said:

Hmm, sorry, can't remember for sure. I'll remember to count them for my next playthrough. Since I'm at it, any other item you'd like me to keep track of?

Rubies, and a few very rare (pretty much unique) items that are kind of spoilerish:

Spoiler

Star ruby, pirate's cutlass and great elixir

Those you don't need to track the number of, just whether you found them or not, since it may vary based on the randomisation, kill count, etc. You should be able to retrieve the basic number of berries you've found by doing a GetGlobal("agberr","GLOBAL") in the console (or agruby for rubies).

[Mike1072]

Miloch, on Nov 19 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Daulmakan, on Nov 19 2009, 01:47 PM, said:

* When Karaea takes the berries, she takes the whole stack in a character's inventory, instead of only one. I don't know if this is intended, but if each party member only has one berry, she'll take only one at a time. I'd like if she could just take one in the first case too.

I would do this if I could, but I can't think of a way to do it, because TakePartyItem takes everything in a single stack as per the IESDP:

Quote

TakePartyItem()
This action takes a single instance of the specified item from the party (unless the item exists in a stack, in which case the entire stack is taken).

In fact, I don't think we can even account for the number of berries she's taken in a stack - they'll probably be considered "1 berry" no matter what. The workaround is as you say, to "unstack" them (even on the same character should work). I guess I could also make them non-stackable but that'd be even worse I think. Though I suppose I could add a "berry bag" or something that holds an unlimited number of unstacked berries but... meh... new items/BAMs...

TakePartyItemNum?

[Miloch]

Mike1072, on Nov 20 2009, 03:57 AM, said:

TakePartyItemNum?

Eh... maybe... but it doesn't say what it does if the item is stacked and *not* in a quickslot:

Quote

If the item to be taken is in a stack, and the stack is in a quickslot, the item will be removed, and the remaining stack will be placed in the inventory.

I guess testing could tell, but my machine is a bit tied up as far as testing right now.

[GeN1e]

Quote

Eh... maybe... but it doesn't say what it does if the item is stacked and *not* in a quickslot:

It works fine, check Cespenar's dialog, it uses TakePartyItemNum alot for gems.

Quote

The only reason I did it like this is because it provides -2 against all damage types *except* missiles, where it provides a -5 bonus (as does boot04 from the original game IIRC). But this would be the equivalent of giving it an AC -2 for all damage types and an extra -3 vs. missiles, so I could do it like that too (makes a bit more sense I suppose).

Unless we can get Taimon to remove the AC cap, which would seem to be impossible for a while, I'd leave it non-displayable and stackable than the reverse.

Quote

As long as we're looking at that, maybe someone can answer this. If you're doing a DestroyGold(), do you also need a TakePartyGold() before it, or does that duplicate the amount taken? According to the IESDP, DestroyGold() should remove and destroy the amount from the party as it is, though maybe it's not accurate.

DestroyGold() works on the subject actor, not party. Again, see Cromwell/Cespenar.


Concerning the missing response in dialog, I'm afraid I see nothing that might be the cause. Will try it ingame, maybe it'll net more info.

Quote

if someone can pry him away from NWN2/DA or whatever

Alright, that's it. I'm done with NWN2 (over 2 months ago) and I haven't even got DA, and probably won't anytime soon. While I probably will try NWN2 MoW, I doubt it will be 2009 either. Stop these false accusations

Edited by GeN1e, 19 November 2009 - 11:59 PM.

[Daulmakan]

Miloch, on Nov 19 2009, 10:41 PM, said:

This should be fixable, but I'm a bit perplexed because I don't think a reply was intended, and it should work the same way it must have when she told you to come back later (unless you had to do the same thing there).

Yeah, sorry, same issue when giving her the items (can't believe I forgot about that as well...)

Miloch, on Nov 20 2009, 12:11 AM, said:

Rubies, and a few very rare (pretty much unique) items that are kind of spoilerish:

Spoiler

Star ruby, pirate's cutlass and great elixir

Those you don't need to track the number of, just whether you found them or not, since it may vary based on the randomisation, kill count, etc. You should be able to retrieve the basic number of berries you've found by doing a GetGlobal("agberr","GLOBAL") in the console (or agruby for rubies).

20 berries so far, 11 rubies (I'm in Chapter 3 if it means anything).

Spoiler

Found both the pirate's cutlass and great elixir in my previous game (I think I got 2 elixirs actually).

[Miloch]

GeN1e, on Nov 20 2009, 07:38 AM, said:

Concerning the missing response in dialog, I'm afraid I see nothing that might be the cause. Will try it ingame, maybe it'll net more info.

Does it work without trying to force a response if you replace ++ ~~ DO ~ with IF ~~ THEN DO~? It compiles but I can't friggin' test it without killing a couple of BWP installs, which I just might do because they're taking forever.

From what little I understand of dialogue, the first is equivalent to "IF (nothing) THEN REPLY (nothing) THEN DO ..." whereas we just want "IF (nothing) THEN DO..."

Quote

I haven't even got DA, and probably won't anytime soon.

Good lad. So whatever happened with your troll tweak then?

Daulmakan, on Nov 20 2009, 08:36 AM, said:

20 berries so far, 11 rubies (I'm in Chapter 3 if it means anything).

Sounds about right, though I was thinking of nerfing the number of rubies a bit for Tutu (they serve no purpose there except as loot, but they have a function in BG2). Sounds like you got lucky with that last item (though IIRC you might be able to find one randomly and purchase the other at a random shop). Now the real spoiler question is: what happened when you used them (if you used them)?

[Daulmakan]

Miloch, on Nov 20 2009, 06:22 PM, said:

Now the real spoiler question is: what happened when you used them (if you used them)?

Spoiler

Reloaded a coupla times.

Spoiler

Ended up with Detect Illusion and Immunity to Evocation IIRC.

Since I'm at it, I'll ask, in BG2,

Spoiler

is there a quest to cure Tombthal of his curse or it's just there for flavor?

[GeN1e]

Quote

Does it work without trying to force a response if you replace ++ ~~ DO ~ with IF ~~ THEN DO~? It compiles but I can't friggin' test it without killing a couple of BWP installs, which I just might do because they're taking forever.

As I've said, will test it ingame, today or tomorrow. I recall someone saying somewhere that weidu might have difficulties compiling empty transitions with actions attached, but details are eluding me.

Quote

Good lad. So whatever happened with your troll tweak then?

Whom do you call a lad, you half-orc half-drow crazyface?
What happened is that Taimon no longer takes requests, that's what happened. I'm afraid there'll be a bunch of files in override, unless only whitelisted items will get a chance, and I'm not fond of either choice.

And most of all, I've got a GODF***ING FLU! It was only 6 weeks remaining until it were full 5 years of me not having illness of any damn kind. Unholy shit, dammit all...

Edited by GeN1e, 20 November 2009 - 02:56 PM.

[Miloch]

Daulmakan, on Nov 20 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

Since I'm at it, I'll ask, in BG2,

Spoiler

is there a quest to cure Tombthal of his curse or it's just there for flavor?

It was something either K'aeloree or Bookwyrme put in to explain what he was doing on the surface. We toyed with the idea of a future expansion dealing with it, but I don't know if they'll ever get around to writing anything for it. Though I was thinking of maybe just stashing a few strange components around the Underdark, possibly a svirfneblin alchemist who can brew something up with them, I dunno. Then you'd be out of a night merchant but maybe he'd decide that the surface isn't so bad after all. It'd be nice if our dialogue writers actually showed their faces for this sort of thing...

GeN1e, on Nov 20 2009, 10:54 PM, said:

What happened is that Taimon no longer takes requests, that's what happened. I'm afraid there'll be a bunch of files in override, unless only whitelisted items will get a chance, and I'm not fond of either choice.

Didn't know it was that complicated... thought you had a simpler solution.

Quote

And most of all, I've got a GODF***ING FLU! It was only 6 weeks remaining until it were full 5 years of me not having illness of any damn kind.

Which one, avian or swine flu? Well, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, as Nietzsche said. Don't you have a laptop? Nothing like modding in bed, heh.

Edit: For the record, I asked K'aeloree to look at this and he said the "IF ~~ THEN DO~" syntax should work here. Though of course, testing rules, if someone can do it (says this as he breaks his slow ass-underperforming laptop/external hard drive combo over one knee).

Edited by Miloch, 21 November 2009 - 12:06 AM.

[OneEyedPhoenix]

Miloch, on Nov 21 2009, 04:57 AM, said:

Well, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, as Nietzsche said.

Yeah... Cutting off all your limbs can, if it doesn't kill you, only make you stronger...

Nietzsche was probably talking about psychological hardships, not somatic illnesses like the flu.

[Miloch]

OneEyedPhoenix, on Nov 22 2009, 09:33 PM, said:

Nietzsche was probably talking about psychological hardships, not somatic illnesses like the flu.

Technically, once you get something like a flu, get over it and develop antibodies to it, you are stronger because your chances for getting the same (unmutated) strain of the virus again are very slim. Flu shots work on the same principle, only by giving you the dead virus (you hope) and trying to force antibody production rather than letting your body do so naturally.

But maybe this should be moved to the "Irrelevant banter" topic in the workroom .

[Bookwyrme]

Miloch, on Nov 20 2009, 07:57 PM, said:

Daulmakan, on Nov 20 2009, 09:54 PM, said:

Since I'm at it, I'll ask, in BG2,

Spoiler

is there a quest to cure Tombthal of his curse or it's just there for flavor?

It was something either K'aeloree or Bookwyrme put in to explain what he was doing on the surface. We toyed with the idea of a future expansion dealing with it, but I don't know if they'll ever get around to writing anything for it. Though I was thinking of maybe just stashing a few strange components around the Underdark, possibly a svirfneblin alchemist who can brew something up with them, I dunno. Then you'd be out of a night merchant but maybe he'd decide that the surface isn't so bad after all. It'd be nice if our dialogue writers actually showed their faces for this sort of thing...

This dialog writer really thought the dialog was finished

As far as Tomthal, yeah, it's there for flavor. I don't have any plans on expanding it. I suspect he's as happy where he is now as he would be anywhere.

Sorry about not being around much, RL, both good and bad. The usual sort of reasons.

[Miloch]

Bookwyrme, on Nov 23 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

This dialog writer really thought the dialog was finished

Did he now? I thought it was K'aeloree what wrote Tomthal's dialogue, whereas you wrote Aurora's and Karaea's. Though there was probably a lot of cross-writing of course - even GeN1e wrote the upgrade dialogues, with surprisingly little Russlish .

Anyway, what about this (from the workroom)?

Bookwyrme, on Jan 6 2008, 06:33 AM, said:

Btw, I love Tokmin's dialogue overall, but do you think we could leave the rutabagas out? That seems such a Jansen sort of curse, somehow.

Quote

And as for modding existing dialogue, I'm talking about adding new states to, say, Goldander Blackenrock's dialogue so he says something about Tokmin. For a future version, of course.

Oh, yes, we can do that

In fact, I think you were the one who raised the idea of a future expansion re: Tomthal's curse...

Quote

Sorry about not being around much, RL, both good and bad. The usual sort of reasons.

Oh come on. You know you want to get back into BG modding. Don't you want to at least play your own mod? See what sort of monster it's become?

[Bookwyrme]

Miloch, on Nov 25 2009, 10:00 PM, said:

Bookwyrme, on Nov 23 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

This dialog writer really thought the dialog was finished

Did he now? I thought it was K'aeloree what wrote Tomthal's dialogue, whereas you wrote Aurora's and Karaea's. Though there was probably a lot of cross-writing of course - even GeN1e wrote the upgrade dialogues, with surprisingly little Russlish .

You're right: K'aeloree did the initial character development for both Tomthal & Karea. I later wrote quite a lot of dialog for both of them, and K'aeloree did work on Aurora's, as well, and we both revised bits of each. And, when I left, I thought all needed dialog had been written.

Quote

Anyway, what about this (from the workroom)?

Bookwyrme, on Jan 6 2008, 06:33 AM, said:

Btw, I love Tokmin's dialogue overall, but do you think we could leave the rutabagas out? That seems such a Jansen sort of curse, somehow.

Quote

And as for modding existing dialogue, I'm talking about adding new states to, say, Goldander Blackenrock's dialogue so he says something about Tokmin. For a future version, of course.

Oh, yes, we can do that

In fact, I think you were the one who raised the idea of a future expansion re: Tomthal's curse...

I was young and naive....

I'm not saying no one can ever work on Tomthal's predicament, but it will be sometime before I do.

And, I think in the end, very little would change in terms of what he does or who he is.

Quote

Quote

Sorry about not being around much, RL, both good and bad. The usual sort of reasons.

Oh come on. You know you want to get back into BG modding. Don't you want to at least play your own mod? See what sort of monster it's become?

Well, yes, I am just a tiny bit curious....