43 replies to this topic

[Scipio]

I imagine a great number of our nearly 14,000 SHS members are aged between 20 and 29. You are the 20-somethings of today. It probably wouldn't be wildly inaccurate to suggest you have many tastes, interests and attitudes in common with others who are in their late teens or early 30s.

I am posting the full text of an article about 20-somethings because it looks very insightful to me. It's the sort of article that should be read by more people of my generation who often find it difficult to get inside the minds of the 20-somethings of the 21st century.

It would be interesting to hear what some of you folks think about this article, whether you're a 20-something or not. Since it was written by an internationally prominent PR consultant, it may also give you an idea of some psychological approaches that marketers may use when they try to sell to this generation.


Ten Trends of 20-Somethings
by Marian Salzman, President of Euro RSCG Worldwide Public Relations

With the inaugural One Young World summit kicking off this week in London, my thoughts have been focused on the biggest trends among 20-somethings, an increasingly powerful group. In one of my earlier posts, I explained why adults born after 1980 are the Real-Time Generation ? meaning they don't wait to find out about things, or to make things happen themselves.

But that's just the beginning. There are many features that set this generation apart from its predecessors. They're important not only to marketers like me, who are trying to reach this demographic as consumers, but also to anyone who cares about the future.

Herewith, my top 10 trends of 20-somethings:

1. Real-time expectations

Virtually no one in his or her 20s in a developed country has known life without instant communication. Twenty-somethings connect with friends in real time ? no waiting for snail mail or even e-mail. They get the latest news (whether world events or their friends' status) as it happens, with a live feed of texts, tweets and Facebook updates from where it's happening. Whenever they need information, it's online in abundance. Reference books? What are those?

2. More intensely local lives

A paradox of borderless real-time technology is the way it reinforces local connections. With mobile devices, young adults make plans on the fly. With location-based apps on their phones, they find friends who happen to be nearby and get alerts from companies in the vicinity offering deals. Local is the new global, and nowhere is that more true than among 20-somethings.

3. Radical transparency

Twenty-somethings grew up with reality TV and radical celebrity culture ? media poking into every corner of people's lives, from Hollywood A-listers to Nadya Suleman, Tareq and Michaele Salahi, and Richard "Balloon Boy's Dad" Heene. They've lived their whole lives in a culture of information "leaks" at the highest level, a world where even the great confess mistakes and show emotion to millions. They constantly use technologies that let them bare all ? sometimes literally ? to their friends. They're aware that nothing online is confidential, but so what? This generation is more transparent about its thoughts, feelings and actions than any generation before it.

4. Expecting cheap or free everything

Globalization has made many essentials very cheap. Twenty-somethings can fill their stomachs and clothe themselves at unbelievably low cost. Budget air travel is normal. The Internet brings music, software, TV shows and all sorts of content for free. One of the biggest, most powerful brands on the planet, Google, offers a huge range of powerful services at no cost to the user.

5. Demanding entertainment

In some parts of the world, particularly the West, entertainment has long been an essential part of education. Young adults grew up with "Sesame Street" and edutainment based on fun, interactive graphics in the classroom and museums, an approach that has been endorsed by researchers. Even in places where more traditional education models prevail, fun and games have become a staple activity of young people. In the recent Global Youth Study, 59 percent of respondents said they regularly play video or computer games in their spare time; gaming is the second-most popular activity after socializing.

6. Worrying about the planet

Twenty-somethings came of age amid increasingly troubling reports about what's going wrong with the planet. Inconvenient truths about climate change, disappearing species, habitat destruction and water shortages have been daily fare for them. In the survey, 64 percent of respondents saw climate change affecting them seriously, and 82 percent saw it affecting future generations seriously; 64 percent said only immediate radical changes can prevent the most serious impacts of climate change.

7. Seeing luxuries as standard

The basic tools of 20-something life are actually luxuries by historical standards. Whether they pay for them themselves or have help from their parents, most young adults in developed countries have:
? A smartphone costing well above $100, plus monthly fees
? A computer costing at least $300, with monthly broadband fees on top
? A wide-screen TV costing at least $300, plus cable or satellite fees
? Higher education as far as they can go

8. Pro-business, anti-multinational stance

Today's 20-somethings don't share the countercultural ideologies that fired up young baby boomers. They were raised in an environment in which free markets were revered and delivered plenty of consumer goodies. People in their 20s aren't anti-business; some of them even founded megabrands (Google again). But they aren't so fond of multinational corporations. In the survey, two-thirds of respondents said global corporations have too much power. But instead of trying to take down corporate giants by force like earlier generations did, now 20-somethings aspire to out-business them.

9. Regulate the heck out of media bias

Media in 2010 is vastly bigger than it was in 2000. Increasingly diverse news sources are available to anyone, anywhere, anytime. No wonder 70 percent of survey respondents get their news over the Internet. All this choice, plus growing educational levels and media savvy, makes 20-somethings acutely aware of media bias; 70 percent of respondents said all news media should be regulated so that they're clearly independent of state and corporate bias.

10. Naturally Me but aspiring to We

Young adults are used to self-expression, self-esteem, personal computers, personal profiles, personalized settings and personal branding. Whether the culture is highly individualistic (e.g., the United States) or more collectivist (e.g., China), businesses have thrived by enabling people to express themselves, to be more Me. Culturally and commercially, 20-somethings have been encouraged to be more selfish than their predecessors. Yet they're all too aware that everyone pursuing selfish interests creates planetary problems. Members of this generation are caught between the impulse to do their own thing and the desire to do the right thing together. Or as the pithy observation has it, "Everybody wants to save the earth; nobody wants to help Mom do the dishes."

[Choo Choo]

Very interesting article - me, at the wise old age of 18, recognise myself in this, as well.

[Tassadar88]

Nicely written. If I get the time, I should like to comment as a 25er

[GeN1e]

1) Reference books - indeed, what are those?

2)-3) Not about me

4)-10) Correct

[cmorgan]

Bowing out, as that demographic is almost half my age, but a very interesting read, indeed.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

1-5.

Quite right. But...

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Nadya Suleman, Tareq and Michaele Salahi, and Richard "Balloon Boy's Dad" Heene.

Who the Cheese? I have never heard of them.

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

6. Worrying about the planet
Twenty-somethings came of age amid increasingly troubling reports about what's going wrong with the planet. Inconvenient truths about climate change, disappearing species, habitat destruction and water shortages have been daily fare for them. In the survey, 64 percent of respondents saw climate change affecting them seriously, and 82 percent saw it affecting future generations seriously; 64 percent said only immediate radical changes can prevent the most serious impacts of climate change.

Seriously man, did they ask the question the right way, or just: "We want you to say yeah, so say yeah, and not hii, which we will still interpreter as yeah, so?" ???

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

7. Seeing luxuries as standard
• A smartphone costing well above $100, plus monthly fees
• A wide-screen TV costing at least $300, plus cable or satellite fees

Not really, I got an old TV from my brother, and got the +$300 cable reseaver/digibox from my parents as they upgraded and my old kicked the goose out, and the fees also go to my parents as I live still in their house. The 'smart' phone is +4 years old low-standard phone with a new feature, a background color display!

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

8. Pro-business, anti-multinational stance

Well, had you see Resident Evil, you would think so too.

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

9. Regulate the heck out of media bias

So we can only dream.

Scipio, on 08 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

10. Naturally Me but aspiring to We

Ouh, this is good.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 09 February 2010 - 03:32 AM.

[Carleton]

Most "trends" could be rewritten as "we'd force feed said self-images to non-self thinkers to create a need for the following products," but the source is a bunch of marketers, so duh.

I've personally witnessed reality TV exposure ruin much of my generation's: ability to behave in public, reflexive thinking ability, sense of social conscience, and the synthesis of social data. Reality tv is really just a subset of non-conflict but guilt-judgment conditioning programs. The people on screen maybe fighting, but the viewer is not presented with any conflict to his individual values, intellect, or psyche. At the same time, the viewer is also bound with a perceived peer pressure to adhere to "correct" judgments or possibly politically correct standards. Attention is drawn away for the reasons for such social boundries, and applied to reinforcement. Also, the horrible behavior being shown, which is aside from the aspects I've listed, is sadly being picked up by people. Because their reflexive thinking, social conscience, etc. has been degraded, youths are stripped of the ability to assign judgment to "gray" material, and to rely on taught judgment. To illustrate: a toddler given the choice to pick up poop or a toy from the floor. He'd probably pick up the toy based off of smell and instinct. Now put the toddler in the situation where he is worried about what the group wants him to pick up, he's seen pictures of people crapping on each other, and is under the impression that only bad boys would take a toy. Does he then become a brown shirt (literally?)

Essentially parental influence for the 20 something generation (and next generation) has been delegated out to other sources, with or without parental conscent. This is far more apt to happen than it was for previous generations, though certainly such influences are not historically new. Taking all your opinions from the Daily Show on comedy central and soaking up mtv is analogous to be being indoctrinated by a secluded religious community or swept up in wave of community dissonance.

What is normally supposed to happen is that at some point, natural conflict occurs with two people who have your self interest at heart. This is called growing up, but can one grow up if they are never allowed conflict with the embracing arms of a cult, which has its own interest at heart?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Carleton, on 09 February 2010 - 03:20 AM, said:

Taking all your opinions from the Daily Show on comedy central and soaking up mtv is analogous to be being indoctrinated by a secluded religious community or swept up in wave of community dissonance.

What is normally supposed to happen is that at some point, natural conflict occurs with two people who have your self interest at heart. This is called growing up, but can one grow up if they are never allowed conflict with the embracing arms of a cult, which has its own interest at heart?

Actually what's called 'growing up' is to be given an opinion and then seeing what comes of it when it's tested against the background. Say a baby thinks it's the 'strongest' thing alive, it from then on out will be until it will be proved wrong, and been proven wrong it can learn what it is and what's it's not, that's growing up.
Now, you should see that you are already at the arms of evil cults that's pulling your strings every which way they want for their own selfish interests. And those cults are called? The workplace you work in, city/town/village/municipality you live in, the nation you are in, the parish/church-whatever-if you follow... they are all human made power structures of influence. Not to mention that your body is made of things that order every action your ever make, your nervous system.

[Carleton]

Yes, there are societal layers and more layers of self-perpetuating indoctrination - to some perspectives human on human predation, though the sources you list are concrete, real, and are also subject to conflict of dogma against reality. As a child matures, so do institutions and societies (Note: sometimes not for the better.) All the governmental levels and the different 'teams' each encompass all come with cult-like aspects, but the diversity of obstinate stances is the very heart of "learn what it is and what's it's not." No man or nation is an island in the long run.

The disconnect I whine about occurs in arenas where no direct challenge can come or are not allowed to come. The classic cult example operate on faith and other experiences much larger than the individual (communal progress.) A culture bereft of personal evaluation (tremendous thinking still occurs, just elsewhere) can produce a feedback loop of opinion without an immediate or even intermediate backgrounds to be tested against.. until there finally is something "stronger" to be tested, at which point all eggs are in one basket. The allowance of self-interpretation or lack of enforcement instead leads a community of people to go any which way with ideas, beliefs, and opinions, of course constrained by their underlying experiences.

More generally, my woes go out to influences where ideas dictate reality, presented in a medium that isn't reality. Instead the 'nerves' in the analogy are constructed to spit back dreams instead of real information. This might lead to such situations as "What the hell do you think you're doing, this isn't tv" or Human souls escaping to the promised land of alien ships riding on Haley's Comet.

Edited by Carleton, 09 February 2010 - 04:50 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Even your parents, your partner and children too are part of those cults, as their love is only selfish love of themselves to get what they like/need for their genes to strive.

Carleton, on 09 February 2010 - 04:49 PM, said:

...to influences where ideas dictate reality, presented in a medium that isn't reality. Instead the 'nerves' in the analogy are constructed to spit back dreams instead of real information. This might lead to such situations as "What the hell do you think you're doing, this isn't tv" or Human souls escaping to the promised land of alien ships riding on Haley's Comet.

Whose to say these are not the reality?
See, this is all perceptional for the viewer, and how do you know what's best for an individual that's not you... you might think you know what's good for you if they do this or that, but not always even that... according to... your reality.
Only the whole world knows the true reality, because it is it.

Yes, that's why I like games, they have their own realities.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 10 February 2010 - 12:20 AM.

[yarpen]

Hey, I'm exactly 20-guy!

1. Real-time expectations
Yuup.

2. More intensely local lives
Sounds like science-fiction to me. But currently I'm not using phone and just coming to dormitory for drinking with (hic!) randomly found friends.

3. Radical transparency
Yes, but there should also be a stuff written about BLOGs or Twitters where normal people are revealing themselves. You can now everything about everyone by checking his blog, Twitter and Facebook.

4. Expecting cheap or free everything
Hell yeah!

5. Demanding entertainment

In Poland we're whole generation raised on stand up comedies, computer games, manga/anime and stuff. Especially students of tech-high schools. Computer Science Geek Wars.
Damn, and we want more.

6. Worrying about the planet
Yeah, there are many hallunatic-strange-guys whom personally I do hate. Especially those ecologist who are against building nuclear power plants in my country. Hey, they don't know that all of the currently required cobalt power plants are generating faar more nature's destruction than nuclear power plants capable of volting up my whole country. They are dumb. They do like screaming and shouting about shit they don't know.

But there's also another class of guys who are demanding money or they will reveal unknow bird specie which is born EXACTLY in the place where you have your great investing (for example, bridge or mall). They get not paid, ecologist will cancel all your plans.

7. Seeing luxuries as standard

If you mean luxuries in common way then yes, of course. I've got smartphone with touchscreen, 4GB capacity storage and great music player. I've got tablet PC. Wireless headphones with 100m limit? No problem. Ninny DS? Yeah. But none of these was bought as new. Everything comes from eBay-like site Allegro.pl and was bought for really small money. Normally I'd paid for DS something like 400-500plns, I've paid 250 (and I've got 300 after selling PSP).

8. Pro-business, anti-multinational stance

Blah. As always there's party of no-life screaming people who needs something to hate. McDonald, Microsoft, Google (OhMYGODGOOGLEISSPYINGUS!!) etc.

9. Regulate the heck out of media bias

Nope.

10. Naturally Me but aspiring to We

And I think that's the essence of our generation. Everyone see's himself as remedy for all world's problems. The everything world needs is me.

Friggin Captain America's generation.

[Carleton]

-How does one ever know if he only responds with questions?

Game realities are based on rules. You play World of Baldur's Fallout for a month, only to realize that your character is incredibly underpowered and your friends don't include you in their dungeon crawling. Powerful character features in the printed manual never made it into the game, many of the game mechanics you rely on are buggy, and it turns out that online article about how powerful your half-dragon Post-Apocalyptic retro 50's shaman will be was just completely off base; the guy must have been on jet. You could have made an equally bad character without reading any of that, but there's a chance you wouldn't be getting pwned by an eight year old if you hadn't. Even if you try to warp reality by thinking really positive thoughts, there's some small kid who perceives his dude teabagging your dead dude.

To stay on topic with this thread, 20 something's tend to play MMO's.

Addition (thnx for reminding me yarpen): I'd like to contrast the article's claims of "radical transparency" with emergence of internet anonymity. Also "intense local lives" VS the disintegration of local communities and the vast gathering of online communities. Jarno could really go off on that one, since "online community" is the poster child for perception dictating reality. That is, until I introduce my own severe brand of internet gerrymandering.

-Insert existential panic.

Edited by Carleton, 10 February 2010 - 02:23 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

Certainly a colourful piece, all this for marketing? Spam tactics ain't good enough for them? Awh.

Let's have a gander with this here microscope, I'm a lens and I know it not!

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1. Real-time expectations
2. More intensely local lives

Probably a lot more true than this article dictates, and that's pretty much on the fly, where's my coffee Samson? I ordered black with two sugars not ten seconds ago and you're 1.7654321 seconds late! You'rrrrrrre fired!!!

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4. Expecting cheap or free everything

Oh if only, though the reverse is also true as well here, as many of us have no doubt already become bitterly aware of jack-up pricing over mere discussion of issues.

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5. Demanding entertainment

Well here's something I find hard to believe to be unique in any aspect, it'd be a very depressing picture to paint otherwise. Besides, what better way to pass every nanosecond now than to mindlessly watch drivel on TV in place of social contact, or boot up a computer or console unit and behold the magic that is: ENTERTAINMENT!

And if I weren't ripping off quotes enough as it were, well, think what better things could those animations have to do anyway? After all they are only electrons floating around inside the machine...

Hmm, the world may never know.

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6. Worrying about the planet

Ah yes, the tastful topic of the century, or the last two decades anyway, funny how it was all the talk of "madmen and fanatics" until only recent times, whereas the wheels that triggered it all are probably far older than anyone living today.

Alas the whole issue seems to be a little misleading to the actual problem, planet would be fine no matter what we do. Difference is, will we be fine 100 or so years from now? Ahh but what do titles matter? It sounds spiffy enough to be neo-planeteers without the need for rings, eh.

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8. Pro-business, anti-multinational stance

It's kinda fitting when one thinks about it, what better way to get back at "The Man" than to outdo "Him" at "His" own game?

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9. Regulate the heck out of media bias

Oh boy! Big, big issue with absolutely no way to win. Soon as anyone does something about it, it's Armageddeon on Earth, and we need to plant a bomb in an exact locaton on the big floating rock, set of course for sixty seconds delay and then we-- oh what? We don't? Aww, but I wanted to see fireworks tonight! Spoilsports, hmph!

Still yeah, it's a no-win situation. Bias is damned to exist in someone's mind, even if a machine does all the media! Oh well, price we get for being a sentient species so fond opinions.

yarpen, on 10 February 2010 - 01:16 AM, said:

6. Worrying about the planet
Yeah, there are many hallunatic-strange-guys whom personally I do hate. Especially those ecologist who are against building nuclear power plants in my country. Hey, they don't know that all of the currently required cobalt power plants are generating faar more nature's destruction than nuclear power plants capable of volting up my whole country. They are dumb. They do like screaming and shouting about shit they don't know.

Well yeah, provided no one minds growing abnormalities by the dozen for every so generation, goodness knows how many people exactly have been exposed to radiation related mutation. Of course technology and safety procedures have come a long way since the first introduction of nuclear facilities for civilian useage, but one couldn't ever truly say it's 100% secure, because frankly, nothing is, love them wild variables eh?

Also it is worth mentioning nuclear power produces non-recyleable (not to mention deadly) waste, that hasn't really advanced far, concerning what to do with it, since its introduction by comparison. Quite frankly I've lost count on how many toxic waste dumps have been proposed, both on land, and in the sea - and hell I live in a country that doesn't officially allow the use of nuclear power plants... do have plenty of uranium though...

[Carleton]

The newest design concepts for nuclear power re-use the previous generation's waste, but there's still stuff left over to pack into mountains. Supposedly its not even physical possible for the "pellet" design to blow up or burn up. At least those are the claims of engineers in the nuke biz.

Speaking of investors producing claims that promote their interest: the global warming people falsifying scientific data (three recent scandals) and personally making millions by investing in industries for which they pushed legislation and subsidies regardless of whether there was evidence of long term benefits according to climate models (that aren't exactly robust or accurate.)

It's hard to save the planet when the message fails to be "there's alot of us, be more efficient" and instead is "buy this green stuff we made using alot of energy, tons of ore we ripped up from the earth, and released tons of carbon and other gases. But don't worry about that carbon; you can buy it off as long as the money goes to me or my friends" I guess I'd be for cap-n-trade if I was all ready to start the carbon tonnage trading biz to personally ensure I made lots of money and the working poor get their electric bill hiked.

Follow the corporate money. *Also* Follow the Climate change money. end rant.

Edited by Carleton, 10 February 2010 - 02:22 PM.

[yarpen]

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Well yeah, provided no one minds growing abnormalities by the dozen for every so generation, goodness knows how many people exactly have been exposed to radiation related mutation.

After many years, scientists are usually speaking that Czernobyl crysis was crysis most in psychological matter. Yeah, there were toxic clouds even over Brasil, but who cares when burning carbon gives you more radio-active stuff and you're burning it year over year? What about nuclear-junks, hey, they're currently packaged and sent deep deep into ground. Of course if it's done properly. And they aren't IN OUR AIR, as it's done with carbon plants.

Sometimes my lack of capability of proper writing/speaking in english makes me sad, because there are topics about which I'd love to talk but I feel like ME DAVE ME SPEAK INGLISH. ;] And that's what you're hearing from 'quite renown english-polish translator who has broader job experience than just few BG2 mods'. It sucks. -.-

Edited by yarpen, 12 February 2010 - 01:18 PM.

[Scipio]

yarpen, on 12 February 2010 - 01:17 PM, said:

Sometimes my lack of capability of proper writing/speaking in english makes me sad, because there are topics about which I'd love to talk but I feel like ME DAVE ME SPEAK INGLISH. ;] And that's what you're hearing from 'quite renown english-polish translator who has broader job experience than just few BG2 mods'. It sucks. -.-

I don't have any problem understanding you. Don't worry if your English isn't perfect -- you should hear my Polish! I'm constantly pleased and grateful that so many nationalities take the trouble to participate in the all-English discussions on SHS.

Back on topic, let me add a few 20-something trends I've noted.

** 20-somethings are much more tolerant than previous generations. This is especially noticeable in my country, South Africa. Our 20-somethings don't remember much about the era of apartheid, which ended in 1994. They are not conditioned to believe in racial or gender "superiority".

** When 20-somethings are well-infomed, they are very well-informed. I run a monthly trivia quiz in our town. Until last year the players were mostly middle-aged to elderly. Then we started getting teams of young adults -- interns from the hospital, and teachers from the high school. They have consistently been the teams to beat. One of these young teams usually wins and the other usually finishes second or third. They are very knowledgeable about current events, probably because they access news in so many forms, including Internet, radio, TV and newspapers. Their general knowldge is excellent. They have extremely enquiring minds.

** They are not just passive receivers of entertainment. In our small town there are no movie houses or nightclubs. Young adults make their own entertainment, and they socialise a great deal.

** They are compassionate. Their attitude goes beyond "live and let live." Our 20-somethings seem to believe: "Do what you can to make life more pleasant for the other guy."

Maybe my perspective is clouded by my years. Having just passed my 60th birthday, I tend to look at the world through benign eyes. I'm a grandfather. In a few years my daughter will be a 40-something. I have great confidence that the 20-somethings of today will be ready to run this world when my generation has started to fade from memory.

[yarpen]

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I don't have any problem understanding you. Don't worry if your English isn't perfect -- you should hear my Polish! I'm constantly pleased and grateful that so many nationalities take the trouble to participate in the all-English discussions on SHS.

Thanks. Still, foreign language is quite a harsh limitation.

Scipio, I think that you're still looking at our generation with a bit pink-tinted glasses. We're probably not as cool as it looks. Today information is underpriced, everything is obvious. Haiti isn't any tragedy for us, it's new trendy-meme so put HAITI HELP POST at your Facebook. Dead people? Phew, whatever. Watch TV for 1 hour and you're going to see more of them than your grandfather in his whole life, but he saw them at war. You're just playing with remote control or computer's mouse.

Thanks to your experiences you can probably tell folks a lot about tolerancy. Today's tolerancy is a bit comic for me. You know. Usually it's something like "be polite with those goddamn <n-word>". I'm from small polish village... I know that my country after XVI age doesn't have best reputation of being tolerant, but I've didn't thought that hating another person because of another skin color can be true. That there are people who can beat black guy to sensless just because. But when I've started to live in one of the biggest polish cities, I can see that and personally for me that's patology and one, great failure of civilisation. Like coming back to stone age 'crush his skull because he's different'. -.- And still, society is allowing for that. That's why I think that whole tolerancy stuff is a bit of circus. We've learned to be polite and cool to other folks, but deep in hart there's still same ol' dirt.

On the second hand, as far as I know 'tolerancy' is sometimes used by other folks for their own purpose. When in bus there's a black guy close to you. And he stinks. Because many people in public communication buses stinks. You cannot even show that by yourself that you're disgusted - because he'll tell you that you're goddamn racist. Maybe this sort of behaviors are limiting value of whole tolerancy stuff? Dunno.

[Carleton]

One thing history has demonstrated is that different cultures rarely mix without violence. When one group assimilates to the more powerful, choosing to speak the same language and adopt the host values, only remnants of conflict remain. The next generation looks on the former's biases with scorn. In regions that have continued racial or cultural tension, its almost always the case that one side has not yet fully bought into the system, they have specific anti-assimilation cultural traditions (set themselves apart), or both sides are of roughly equal power. The biggest tragedy is when conflicted groups are culturally similar, speaking the same language, yet still visually or regionally distinguishable and differing on fundamental values. I do not assign any judgement in saying any of this. Take any race or ethnicity and put them in the heartland of a foreign land and pretty soon they will be hated and thought unable to compete. What's honest and fair in one area might be considered unethical or stupidity to be taken advantage of elsewhere. Many nations have thought themselves and civilized and above the "bigots" elsewhere until they've experienced a migration of recalcitrant foreigners.

Edited by Carleton, 12 February 2010 - 09:31 PM.

[yarpen]

Currently western Europe is dealing with this problem. Muslims. Especially in France and Nederlands. They always been so political right and tolerant, but when they have to handle people who don't want to assimilate in any matter, they have their own laws and don't respect those of country where they are living... it's bad. As far as my friend who lives in Nederland says, and he's far from being non-tolerant, they can be really toublesome. Muslims penalty for adultery done by woman is just sentence of death. And they will kill her. And you cannot do anything with that, because those most radical folks have their own mafia, own rules. And because of how many of them lives there it's hard to make any decisions about them. Fact that people who live there hate them isn't strange for me in any manner.

[GeN1e]

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Currently western Europe is dealing with this problem. Muslims. Especially in France and Nederlands. They always been so political right and tolerant, but when they have to handle people who don't want to assimilate in any matter, they have their own laws and don't respect those of country where they are living... it's bad. As far as my friend who lives in Nederland says, and he's far from being non-tolerant, they can be really toublesome. Muslims penalty for adultery done by woman is just sentence of death. And they will kill her. And you cannot do anything with that, because those most radical folks have their own mafia, own rules. And because of how many of them lives there it's hard to make any decisions about them. Fact that people who live there hate them isn't strange for me in any manner.

That is very correct. Some people just seem to think the world belongs to them alone and they may do as they please. And there we have that overly tolerant and compassionate modern society, providing abovementioned parasites with protection from more headstrong people.

So no, Scipio, I do not think I'm compassionate at all. Hateful and mizantropic, more likely.

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When in bus there's a black guy close to you. And he stinks. Because many people in public communication buses stinks. You cannot even show that by yourself that you're disgusted - because he'll tell you that you're goddamn racist.

Heh, not in Russia. Should there be a jerk to start beating himself in chest and say 'I'm different from you natives, so bow to me' he'll be quickly taught good manners. With fists

What I love about Russia is that nobody here gives a damn about laws.

Edited by GeN1e, 13 February 2010 - 10:55 AM.