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#341 Silvi

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 06:06 AM

I'm too afraid the game will be as much as a disappointment as the first part... I'll just watch a play-through on youtube first. Maybe if I'm convinced... for now all the info isn't too convincing though.

*saves money for ME3*

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Oh, and you've just lost the game.

#342 Archmage Silver

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 09:07 AM

Season's greetings! I see that you've all been nice (and critical), so here are your updates for December.

News:
Gameplay @ YouTube
Fenris @ Dragon Age Wiki
Slavery in Thedas @ Grey Wardens
Customization vs. Personalization @ Grey Wardens
Dragon Age II: Fenris and Combat @ Grey Wardens
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ RPG Fan
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ Destructoid
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ The Escapist
Hawke Speaks! (And Other Good Stuff) @ Grey Wardens
Staff of Parthalan Fixed - Redeem Yours @ BioWare Social
Dragon Age 2 PC System Specs Announced @ Grey Wardens

I have a bad feeling about this new char. I mean, both male characters we've seen are non-human, and Female Hawke is human. Which means she'll literally have to romance beneath her. Er... there will be a normal human male love interest, right? Right?

If I had to take a guess, it's going to be a qunari. Failing that, it's probably "I'm not Oghren" Varric. Hawke, Bethany/Carver, Isabela, Aveline... I think they're running out of room for humans as it is.

Fenris... I named Dog in my first playthrough Fenrir. Bloody ripoff.

I'll sell the upstart simian back to the magister who is after him for a pile of gold. (Never understood why a mage would keep an elf as a servant. Preposterous!) After I have his gold, I'll torch them with my superior fire spells. To the victor belong the spoils... and that is always me.

Someone on the Bioboards asks why friendly fire can't be a toggle. And why not? Well, you see:

Because it has a profound effect on the difficulty. Hence it being attached to the difficulty.

Or that, anyhow, is what I assume. Attaching things to toggles is great, but if someone flips that on and doesn't know that it will suddenly make their "Easy" game not quite so Easy anymore... well, that wouldn't be good.


So basically, he just called his entire player base retards.

Thanks, Gaider! It's good to know you have such a high opinion of me!

Well, I pointed out earlier that that's what Gaider does with his work time... but maybe we should cut him some slack, most people are idiots. I don't expect Gaider to like developing ARPGs as much as to use the PR department guidelines when posting.

The gameplay is shit though, it looks like some generic Diablo clone. Is DA II competing in the same category as Dungeon Siege 3? It certainly looks like it, except for the fact that Dungeon Siege 3 seems to have better graphics.

System Requirements up on the DA2 FAQ

They expect me to upgrade to get to the recommended specs? I think not. I'll hold off upgrading until something more serious comes along.

I dont understand how some people could the game too hard on easy or normal...Just take the right party for your style of fighting and hard or Nightmare are pretty much a joke...It remains to be seen how hard or easy DA II will be...but if I had to guess it will be far easier :ph34r:

Yeah, I regret not playing my first playthrough on Nightmare as well. The only time I've had to drop out of Nightmare because of difficulty was when I didn't import enough potions for GoA's final battle (and no respec tomes). I had to finish it on Hard for the achievement.

I'm too afraid the game will be as much as a disappointment as the first part... I'll just watch a play-through on youtube first. Maybe if I'm convinced... for now all the info isn't too convincing though.

*saves money for ME3*

Origins was good in my opinion, if that's what you're referring to?

Speaking of ME3, I'll post the latest news in the ME forum after this.

#343 Archmage Silver

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 09:56 AM

This just in:
Edmonton Press Preview - Family in Dragon Age II @ Grey Wardens

#344 KIrving

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 01:35 PM

... one of your earliest party members is your sibling (your brother or sister, depending on what class you chose)...

The article is correct. You'll get Bethany if Hawke is a rogue or warrior (regardless of gender), and Carver if Hawke is a mage.

That's awesome, because I was just playing KOTOR2 and that is totally my favourite part of the game!

...OH WAIT.

Spoiler

Certain party members restricted depending on class. I hate that.
Spoiler


Season's greetings! I see that you've all been nice (and critical), so here are your updates for December.
Hawke Speaks! (And Other Good Stuff) @ Grey Wardens

Yeah...male Hawke speaks. Female Hawke is too busy in the kitchen making sandwiches.
"I'm just here to get the job done, let someone else be on the poster." Female Commander Shepard

#345 Vicen

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:02 PM

Yeah, I regret not playing my first playthrough on Nightmare as well. The only time I've had to drop out of Nightmare because of difficulty was when I didn't import enough potions for GoA's final battle (and no respec tomes). I had to finish it on Hard for the achievement.


Heh I myself had to beat that fight on Hard...I doubt we will even see half that difficultly in DA:2 at any point in the game

Edited by Vicen, 21 December 2010 - 10:02 PM.

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#346 Kulyok

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Posted 21 December 2010 - 10:33 PM

I'll sell the upstart simian back to the magister who is after him for a pile of gold. (Never understood why a mage would keep an elf as a servant. Preposterous!) After I have his gold, I'll torch them with my superior fire spells. To the victor belong the spoils... and that is always me.


Go Archmange Silver! That's how real mages deal with things. (Me, I'm going to check if there's an opportunity to give Bethany to the templars, but that's just me).

And thank you for the updates. I couldn't get to destructoid site yesterday, and can't today, strangely enough. Anything good there?

With Fenris, I suspect it's Shale-3(or Justice-2). Shale was good, but Justice... not so much. Intriguing backstory, but bland personality. Eh. Good point about qunari love interest - while for Male Hawke it's obviously Jaheira-2(Aveline) and Isabella, for female Hawke it's... um. Hm, I wonder who Cassandra would interrogate if I refuse to take Varric into my party...

#347 Kulyok

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:55 AM

A very interesting interview here: http://www.rpgamer.c...gonage2int.html - I didn't know that Hawke's past(mother's and father's) would play a major role in the game. I mean, they told us he's but a simple refugee, yet somehow it is not so.

#348 Archmage Silver

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 06:41 AM

News:
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ Zam
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ ActionTrip
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ GameZone
Edmonton Press Preview - DA II Preview @ RPG France

The other major gameplay change is less radical, but will probably be more well-received, and that's crafting. While the version of DA2 I played still had some crafting bugs, the system seems to make creating potions, weapons, etc. much less of a hassle in terms of time and inventory space. For example, instead of crafting items yourself, you order them from crafters who take the materials directly into their storage – that's right, no more being weighed down by carrying around 99 pieces of Elfroot. Fans will also probably appreciate additional tweaks such as being able to visit locations during day or night, on-the-fly stat calculations when choosing equipment/abilities, and a streamlined status menu.

Hey, an actual improvement!

I'll sell the upstart simian back to the magister who is after him for a pile of gold. (Never understood why a mage would keep an elf as a servant. Preposterous!) After I have his gold, I'll torch them with my superior fire spells. To the victor belong the spoils... and that is always me.

Go Archmange Silver! That's how real mages deal with things. (Me, I'm going to check if there's an opportunity to give Bethany to the templars, but that's just me).

And thank you for the updates. I couldn't get to destructoid site yesterday, and can't today, strangely enough. Anything good there?

With Fenris, I suspect it's Shale-3(or Justice-2). Shale was good, but Justice... not so much. Intriguing backstory, but bland personality. Eh. Good point about qunari love interest - while for Male Hawke it's obviously Jaheira-2(Aveline) and Isabella, for female Hawke it's... um. Hm, I wonder who Cassandra would interrogate if I refuse to take Varric into my party...

I've quoted the Destructoid article below. It's a pretty good read.

Spoiler

A very interesting interview here: http://www.rpgamer.c...gonage2int.html - I didn't know that Hawke's past(mother's and father's) would play a major role in the game. I mean, they told us he's but a simple refugee, yet somehow it is not so.

That's part of their revised protagonist-centric storytelling. I'm still a bit skeptic about the true extent of it though.

In Origins, you were a nameless, voiceless hero, but in DA2, you are the silky-toned Hawke, a change that may be jarring to those who favored Origins's old school approach to characterization. Which, as Laidlaw tells it, is not that many players. "People generally hated the silent protagonist," he says, but that wasn't the only reason to adopt a main character who could speak for themselves; Having the hero stand stoically while drama erupted all around them "seemed to be doing a disservice to the storytelling." Recognizing that responding to an impassioned speech from Leliana by choosing a sentence from a menu lacked a certain vitality, the Dragon Age team decided to borrow a page from their colleagues across the hall.

Oh, way to sell out. Damn. They just told their oldest fans to get lost. Now they've really abandoned their roots.

Edited by Archmage Silver, 22 December 2010 - 07:34 AM.


#349 Vicen

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:57 AM

Its all about the money you know...The masses are shall we say less educated in the ways of fine gaming...It can only get worse before it gets better <_<

Regardless even with all this tom-foolery ill still be picking up a copy...I seem to have a knack for buying bad games or trying them out *cough ff14 worst 50 bucks I spent in my life cough*

Edited by Vicen, 22 December 2010 - 07:57 AM.

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#350 Galsic

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:34 AM

In Origins, you were a nameless, voiceless hero, but in DA2, you are the silky-toned Hawke, a change that may be jarring to those who favored Origins's old school approach to characterization. Which, as Laidlaw tells it, is not that many players. "People generally hated the silent protagonist," he says, but that wasn't the only reason to adopt a main character who could speak for themselves; Having the hero stand stoically while drama erupted all around them "seemed to be doing a disservice to the storytelling." Recognizing that responding to an impassioned speech from Leliana by choosing a sentence from a menu lacked a certain vitality, the Dragon Age team decided to borrow a page from their colleagues across the hall.

Oh, way to sell out. Damn. They just told their oldest fans to get lost. Now they've really abandoned their roots.

:huh: The guy said "not that many players." How does that automatically equate to "every single player who supported BioWare since the beginning"? Coulda sworn BW was always a company out to make money, and they did by trying to please as many of their target consumers as possible. Why use features that didn't seem to work as they were before? I don't want that.

Dunno if I've said this before, but I, someone who has been a BioWare fan since BG1, am not a fan of the silent protagonist. It might work in the right story, but I honestly would rather have protagonists like Shepard and, maybe, Hawke. If that makes me a member of the ignorant masses, then me iz giltee as charjed :) .

Edited by Galsic, 22 December 2010 - 11:43 AM.

(I like parentheses.)

#351 WeeRLegion

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:51 PM

I agree with Galsic here. A silent PC worked best in BG style games where dialogue was primarily text, and the silence just sorta blended in. In DAO, with fully voiced lines and cinematic trickery about, the silence started to stick out a little.
Since DA2 is presumably going to be even more cinematic than DAO, and more alike ME2 in many ways, I doubdt a silent PC could gracefully carry the plot.

And hey, if they deliver on the promise of tuning the dialogue options and voiceover tones by your past dialogue choices (people who often pick sarcastic options will get an sarcastic general tone, and people who tend to pick other options will get a different tone to match their choices, or so I've heard it commented), then I think it'll serve all roleplaying purposes quite fine.

#352 KIrving

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:10 PM

And hey, if they deliver on the promise of tuning the dialogue options and voiceover tones by your past dialogue choices (people who often pick sarcastic options will get an sarcastic general tone, and people who tend to pick other options will get a different tone to match their choices, or so I've heard it commented), then I think it'll serve all roleplaying purposes quite fine.

I may be in the minority on this but I really don't like the idea of personality matching dialogue or whatever it is they have suggested will happen. I mean how will it work? If I've chosen 2 or 3 sarcastic responses in a row will my next choice be delivered sarcastically even if I'm not meaning it to be. I don't see how it can be anything but clunky and just another way of not knowing what your character is going to say when you push the button of awesomeness.
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#353 WeeRLegion

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:40 PM

AFAIK, each response adds points towards a certain type of voiceover, and everytime your voiceover type is switched the point threshold for change is increased; if you play a dominantly non-sarcastic character, a couple of sarcasms in a row shouldn't result in a VO switch. At least that's the way I understood it.

I guess there's a risk of sometimes getting stuck with an unfitting VO type for a while, particularly early in the game when the thresholds are low, but eh, they might have worked around that.

Edited by WeeRLegion, 22 December 2010 - 01:45 PM.


#354 Archmage Silver

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:04 PM

Call me a relic, but I don't like voiced protagonists in my RPGs. Having a VA read out the lines for my character creates a rift between me and that character. It just doesn't help me to get immersed in the game, even though that's exactly what the devs are trying to achieve with voiced protagonists. Ultimately I can live with it, but I don't have to like it.

#355 vilkacis

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:21 PM

The spoken dialogue alone isn't the main offender here.

The dialogue wheel with the "I want a bigger reward" option that actually means "let's fuck right here, right now, right in front of my subordinates" is the big problem.

As opposed to actually picking the dialogue you want your character to say and having npcs reacting to that exact line.

But I guess actuall roleplaying is too difficult for modern gamers because lol xbox haloz press button for awesome sparta general roflskates fuck I'm glad I'm going on vacation tomorrow and will have a good excuse to ignore the corporate bullshit machine.

#356 berelinde

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:46 PM

I'm on the fence about the whole voiced protagonist thing. On the one hand, a silent protagonist in a cinematic setting does stand out. On the other, what if I can't identify with the voice? If it's too different from the voice I imagine for my PC, it won't go well. I usually do my first play-through of any game with a male PC, a calm, methodical "good guy" who tries to do the right thing. What happens if trying to do the right thing makes him sound like an evangelist?

Then again, I'm not sure paraphrases would have hurt me all that much in parts of DA:O. In one dialogue with Zevran, I chose "You would compare your life with mine?" and I intended it to mean "Your life was full of deprivation and hardship. I had it relatively easy, growing up. Of the two of us, I think you did much better with the hand you were dealt than I ever could have done." But Zevran reacted as if I had just called him a whiner. So in that case, a paraphrase of "You did alright for yourself" would have worked better.

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#357 vilkacis

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 05:53 AM

Honestly, I'd welcome voice acting if they A, retained the full text choices, and B, allowed a choice of actor, as per the combat grunts in Origins/BG/etc (preferably including an "off" option). Voicing in itself is would not be a bad thing, if it weren't for the fact that they somehow translate that into having to dumb down the dialogue system. That absolutely kills the "R" aspect of "RPG".

Anyway, I'm off.

#358 WeeRLegion

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 06:34 AM

I'd agree with that, Vilk, if they weren't already addressing that issue with the tone icons. It sounds easy enough to design, so I'm thinking they won't screw it up. I'm quite sure we'll have a good understanding of what our characters are roughabout going to say and more importantly what they're going to mean with it, and I think that serves the purpose of character connection better than clunky big paragraphs.

As for having alternate VAs available, sure, having multiple options would be great. A shame that it seems to be out of the question.

#359 Archmage Silver

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:47 AM

As for having alternate VAs available, sure, having multiple options would be great. A shame that it seems to be out of the question.

Yeah. That's also one reason why you can't play as a dwarf or an elf in DA II. It costs way too much to have all the lines read out by more than one male and one female VA. BioWare might not say it out aloud, but it factors in somewhere between the "personalized story" and managing production costs.

On budget cuts... just imagine Mark Meer at a line recording session, thinking he has to sound appropriate for three different races, but still remain neutral enough to please everyone. Ha! Too bad DA II only has one race available and Meer isn't doing any VOs.

#360 Vicen

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:41 AM

Well if they cut out the female aspect and made you play a Male only then I reckon they could make it so you could be an elf or dwarf Hawke...One more VA then they allready have would not break the bank(Just hire some up and coming person on the cheap for the dwarf since most people would most likely be an elf or a human Hawke)...though that would most likely make more people mad rather then happy heh...

Personally the way they have it is fine with me(If the game is good enough I play a female either 2nd or 3rd time around)...But if they did go the route I explain above I would not be angry there was no female option heh... :P

Edited by Vicen, 23 December 2010 - 10:41 AM.

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