29 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

since SCS replaces only the vanilla scripts, the result will be creatures that stand around with no scripts at all.

That isn't true either. SCS2 overwrites BP scripts as well as vanilla scripts, so you get BP-Ascension creatures with SCS2 scripts if you install BP then SCS2 and BP-Ascension creatures with BP scripts if you install SCS2 then BP.

[Ithildur]

Interesting... so SCS apparently does 'overwrite the corresponding bits of BP AI', but doesn't that mean it looks for the BP AI scripts to work with as opposed to simply the cre files? As of last year (several versions of SCSII ago) I've seen BP creatures (installed without BP Core/AI) stand around with no script, and when I checked their cre files via NI I noticed they had BP scripts (not SCS) assigned to them, which obviously were not firing/were not installed (yes, I had SCSII installed well after the BP component). Or was there a more recent change to the way SCSII handles BP scripts?

The key again seems to be 'they will overwrite the corresponding bits of BP AI'... sounds like SCS might need BP scripts to work with in order to effectively replace them, given actual ingame behavior along with checking via NI.

Again, this was last year, so perhaps SCSII did change the way it deals with BP AI/creatures... but if that's the case, there should be no problems installing BP Ascension and letting SCS AI run it.

[edit] Threads such as this

http://www.shsforums...4-bp-vs-scs-ai/

incline me to think nothing's changed, that SCSII requires the actual BP ai to work with, in order to do anything with them. Installing BP Ascension (or any other BP component) without BP Core means there are no BP AI scripts to work with.

There were other threads I found such as

http://www.shsforums...ing-the-waters/

which seems to confirm that BP Ascension minus BP Core with SCSII results in at least some of the creatures stand around with BP AI (i.e. no working scripts firing)

Any clarification is appreciated; obviously if I'm wrong I'll gladly install BP Ascension (and maybe one or two other components) and let SCSII AI run it; not that I wouldn't love to give BP AI a whirl but at this stage SCSII seems much more robust, up to date and better supported.

Edited by Ithildur, 03 August 2011 - 11:35 AM.

[Miloch]

As of last year (several versions of SCSII ago) I've seen BP creatures (installed without BP Core/AI) stand around with no script, and when I checked their cre files via NI I noticed they had BP scripts (not SCS) assigned to them, which obviously were not firing/were not installed (yes, I had SCSII installed well after the BP component). Or was there a more recent change to the way SCSII handles BP scripts?

I don't know when exactly SCS2 started overwriting BP scripts. Possibly it was between v11 and v15 as I posted in that thread I linked (which itself is almost a year ago). Possibly it was even earlier.

I've seen BP creatures (installed without BP Core/AI)... Installing BP Ascension (or any other BP component) without BP Core means there are no BP AI scripts to work with.

I don't know what you mean by this, but last I checked, you can't install BP components without the core mod (which includes AI). If so, either you jiggled the tp2 or it's an install bug. Either way, if you installed SCS2 after it, it overwrites at least all the generic BP AI. 'Creatures standing around doing nothing' is largely due to invalid script references in other mods (e.g. NTotSC) which Turambar's Tweaks fixes. I would assume he'd've mentioned and addressed any BP issues, since he's been involved in updating BP too. But AFAIK he hasn't mentioned any BP invalid scripts. If you find any such, you'll have to indicate the actual CRE/script names as we can't really track them down otherwise.

There were other threads I found such as

http://www.shsforums...ing-the-waters/

which seems to confirm that BP Ascension minus BP Core with SCSII results in at least some of the creatures stand around with BP AI (i.e. no working scripts firing)

I don't know where in that thread you see that - you'll have to indicate or link to the exact post so I don't have to reread an entire 4-page thread from some time ago.

[Ithildur]

I've definitely installed BP components (Improved Xvart Village specificly) without the Core without hacking/modding the tp2, etc. There were two types of xvarts that ended up standing around during gameplay, both added by BP. I checked the cre files via NI, and found both had BP scripts assigned to them, which obviously were not installed (script slot was greyed out in NI) and hence the standing around. SCSII did not touch either of them.

There was another more recent thread where someone reported that one of Illesara's flunkies in BP Ascension (the cleric iirc) stood around AI-less after he installed BP Ascension sans BP Core with SCSII; I thought it was in the second thread I posted.

Edited by Ithildur, 03 August 2011 - 01:00 PM.

[Miloch]

I've definitely installed BP components (Improved Xvart Village specificly) without the Core without hacking/modding the tp2, etc. There were two types of xvarts that ended up standing around during gameplay, both added by BP. I checked the cre files via NI, and found both had BP scripts assigned to them, which obviously were not installed (script slot was greyed out in NI) and hence the standing around. SCSII did not touch either of them.

Well then clearly that's not a BP-SCS2 compatibility issue if SCS2 didn't touch them. Anyway, I'm pretty sure Turambar's Tweaks fixed that (it actually comes from more mods than BP as DSotSC or NTotSC has the same component).

4 - Inactive creatures fix
Corrects some invalid script references which cause some hostile creatures (such as xvart protectors, Elka, Ogre Dad in Beregost, ...) to just stand there while you're killing them.

There was another more recent thread where someone reported that one of Illesara's flunkies in BP Ascension (the cleric iirc) stood around AI-less after he installed BP Ascension sans BP Core with SCSII; I thought it was in the second thread I posted.

I don't see that in that thread. Also sounds like it might be an issue with Ascension or BP-Ascension that has nothing to do with SCS2 (kinda hard to tell without an exact reference though).

Edit: To elaborate a bit, the way BP is currently coded, it isn't a great idea to install any of its subcomponents without the main component. If you want SCS-AI instead, just install it later over BP as it will overwrite the generic BP AI, as stated.

Edited by Miloch, 03 August 2011 - 04:02 PM.

[Ithildur]

There seems to be some miscommunication... that post wasn't specificly about BP/SCS compatibility; my point there is that installing BP components like BP Ascension or Imp Xvart village without installing BP Core with the intent of letting SCSII provide scripts for the critters in those mods doesn't seem to work; you get critters that stand around with greyed out/uninstalled BP scripts assigned to their script slots. Installing SCSII subsequently doesn't seem to help as SCS doesn't seem to replace these slots with SCS scripts.

If Turambar looks for missing script assigned cre files and fills them with some decent scripts, it's at least an option, but the fundamental problem has nothing to do with any other mods afaik; simply put, BP Ascension/other components require BP Core presently to run properly.

Now where possible BP/SCS compatibility questions DO come into play is that, one of the reasons why I am reluctant to install BP Core, is that DavidW has specificly gone on record to say that the results of BP ai and SCS being mixed might not play well. That's why I'm trying to run BP Ascension without Core (the readme says it DOES install without requiring BPCore... it installs, but it runs with at least one ai-less critter), and am willing to manually insert some scripts to the two xvart cre files to run Improved xvart village component sans BP Core


My aim (until BP gets overhauled, hopefully soon?) was to run such components on SCS AI without installing BP Core; presently it seems like it's not really an option.

Edited by Ithildur, 03 August 2011 - 07:26 PM.

[Miloch]

There seems to be some miscommunication... that post wasn't specificly about BP/SCS compatibility; my point there is that installing BP components like BP Ascension or Imp Xvart village without installing BP Core with the intent of letting SCSII provide scripts for the critters in those mods doesn't seem to work; you get critters that stand around with greyed out/uninstalled BP scripts assigned to their script slots. Installing SCSII subsequently doesn't seem to help as SCS doesn't seem to replace these slots with SCS scripts.

If Turambar looks for missing script assigned cre files and fills them with some decent scripts, it's at least an option, but the fundamental problem has nothing to do with any other mods afaik; simply put, BP Ascension/other components require BP Core presently to run properly.

There are two fairly easy solutions to the two issues, to run the risk of quoting an immediately prior post:

1. Xvart village

Turambar's Tweaks fixed that...

4 - Inactive creatures fix
Corrects some invalid script references which cause some hostile creatures (such as xvart protectors, Elka, Ogre Dad in Beregost, ...) to just stand there while you're killing them.

2. BP subcomponents with SCS2 AI

There was another more recent thread where someone reported that one of Illesara's flunkies in BP Ascension (the cleric iirc) stood around AI-less after he installed BP Ascension sans BP Core with SCSII; I thought it was in the second thread I posted.

I don't see that in that thread. Also sounds like it might be an issue with Ascension or BP-Ascension that has nothing to do with SCS2 (kinda hard to tell without an exact reference though).

Edit: To elaborate a bit, the way BP is currently coded, it isn't a great idea to install any of its subcomponents without the main component. If you want SCS-AI instead, just install it later over BP as it will overwrite the generic BP AI, as stated.

Maybe the question here (if there's another question) is: why doesn't SCS2 update some random cleric's AI (whose file name is as yet unspecified)? The answer is, we don't know (as we don't even know the file or cleric's name or whether it really happens) but *if* SCS2 doesn't update that cleric in BP-Ascension, it's quite possible it doesn't with Weimer's Ascension either. I seem to recall there being an issue with a cleric in Ascension, but I'll be buggered if offhand I can guess which one it is. I have been 'casually' working on both BP and Ascension as time and interest allow, but if you think that's an easy task, open the .tp2 file of either mod with a text editor and count the lines of code and I'll guarantee your eyes will go funny before you can even get that far .

Now where possible BP/SCS compatibility questions DO come into play is that, one of the reasons why I am reluctant to install BP Core, is that DavidW has specificly gone on record to say that the results of BP ai and SCS being mixed might not play well.

He has done that without (in his own admission) testing it himself; for that matter, I don't think he was able to produce any material bug reports of malfunctions between BP-Ascension and SCS2 when I asked him about it (in that link above). I don't ask for details (like file/script names etc.) just to be a jerk - it really is the only way any of us can help debug potential issues.

[Ithildur]

Turambar Tweak will address the xvarts, thanks for the heads up for that. I understand your need for specific file names; I'll get them posted as soon as I get a chance.

Is it just me that can't get shs's forum search to work?