Jump to content


Photo

[Research] The 'my transition is stuck' thread


85 replies to this topic

#41 Vlad

Vlad
  • Member
  • 530 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 01:52 PM

Creepin, you didn't understand, sorry. At the present moment the 50 mods NPCs are not transferred to BG2 at all or bugged.


Edited by Vlad, 15 November 2015 - 01:53 PM.


#42 The Imp

The Imp

    Not good, see EVIL is better. You LIVE.

  • Member
  • 3997 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 01:54 PM

Whistle:

COPY_EXISTING ~ARAM00.bcs~ ~override~
 DECOMPILE_AND_PATCH BEGIN
 REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~SetGlobal("SPRITE_IS_DEADIMOEN2","GLOBAL",0)~
~ActionOverride("Dude",LeaveParty())
ActionOverride("Dude",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT))
ActionOverride("Dude",SetDialog("DudeP"))
SetGlobal("DudePartyBG1","GLOBAL",1)
ActionOverride("Dude",MoveBetweenAreas("xxxxxx",[xxxx.xxxx],x))
SetGlobal("SPRITE_IS_DEADIMOEN2","GLOBAL",0)~
END

Why, cause you probably wish to make it so that others can also add their own without consuming the replaceable line, and DECOMPILE_AND _PATCH cause ... well so it doesn't randomly just bork out for what ever reason giving you only a warning if it doesn't compile, leaving a broken .baf file to the override folder.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#43 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 01:55 PM

Creepin, you didn't understand, sorry. At the present moment the 50 mods NPCs are not transferred to BG2 at all or bugged if they are not in party.

Those that are candidates and have existed for years are in the scripts.

There are just very few new candidates and most of them are aware of the issue >>>Isra, Valerie, White (the new BGEE ones are not considered)


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#44 Vlad

Vlad
  • Member
  • 530 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 01:58 PM

You know I have not updated my WeiDU from v185, the last true WeiDU. So I don't understand this, and I have no DECOMPILE_AND _PATCH in my lexicon.  :D



#45 Creepin

Creepin
  • Member
  • 819 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 02:02 PM

Or you write your own taking as a start point either Vlad or BGT (which is repeating Vlad's work in a way). 
Nah, I'm just a player worrying someone in his zealousness might make some mods unplayable.
Creepin, you didn't understand, sorry.
That's perfectly possible, nothing to be sorry about. Actually, I'd be grateful if someone could explain in layman's terms the basics of this issue. Last few BWS playthroughs I have played with "6 of me" team, and they all were transferred safely, it never occurred to me that it could be othervice. Judging by fact that you discusses NPC mods, I guess that transition works in some other way for not player created NPCs, but why? Say there's certain .chr in slot 4. Why it would somehow not be in slot 4 any more upon arriving to Irenicus'? Did BGT threat moving to Chauteau Irenicus in any other way than moving, I don't know, any other transition via script? If so, why? I mean, how hard is it to MoveBetweenAreas() player1, player 2 and so on from within a cutscene?

Edited by Creepin, 15 November 2015 - 02:03 PM.


#46 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 15 November 2015 - 02:08 PM

Or you write your own taking as a start point either Vlad or BGT (which is repeating Vlad's work in a way). 
Nah, I'm just a player worrying someone in his zealousness might make some mods unplayable.
Creepin, you didn't understand, sorry.
That's perfectly possible, nothing to be sorry about. Actually, I'd be grateful if someone could explain in layman's terms the basics of this issue. Last few BWS playthroughs I have played with "6 of me" team, and they all were transferred safely, it never occurred to me that it could be othervice. Judging by fact that you discusses NPC mods, I guess that transition works in some other way for not player created NPCs, but why? Say there's certain .chr in slot 4. Why it would somehow not be in slot 4 any more upon arriving to Irenicus'? Did BGT threat moving to Chauteau Irenicus in any other way than moving, I don't know, any other transition via script? If so, why? I mean, how hard is it to MoveBetweenAreas() player1, player 2 and so on from within a cutscene?

 

This is exactly what is NOT done by the transition.

Remember, originally there were once two separate games that were glued together by BGT.

For example Jaheirah existed in BG1 - The BG2 game has a Jaheira starting in Irenicus Cage. Jaheira2,cre and Jaheira8.cre.

Works well for two separate games where you could import your PC into the new game and he/she seemingly met old friends. Does not work anymore if you do the transition, you will transit Jaheira2 to greet Jaheira8 in the dungeon,

The "6 of me" is not what this is all about.


Edited by Roxanne, 15 November 2015 - 02:09 PM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#47 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:43 AM

Creepin, you didn't understand, sorry. At the present moment the 50 mods NPCs are not transferred to BG2 at all or bugged if they are not in party.

Those that are candidates and have existed for years are in the scripts.

There are just very few new candidates and most of them are aware of the issue >>>Isra, Valerie, White (the new BGEE ones are not considered)

Here are some examples of how the BG1 NPCs not captured by the transition scripts do their addon stuff in the current BGT installation (done with BWS)

Spoiler

So - the problem is known, solved and needs not be discussed here - Mods not taking it into account while declaring they are BGT compatible are simply buggy (even today).


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 01:44 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#48 Lollorian

Lollorian

    smiley addict

  • Member
  • 4149 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 07:18 AM

Wait am I understanding this right? Is it a simple matter of duplicating blocks like:

IF
InParty("rh#Isra")
Global("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",LeaveParty())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT))
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ClearAllActions())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf())
SetGlobal("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",1)
Continue()
END

based on NPC im ARAM00.BCS?


"I am the smiley addict, yellow and round, this is my grin :D when I'm usually around :P.
When there's trouble brewing, see me post, cuz it's usually a wall o' yellow and your eyes are toast!!!"

BWP GUIDE - BWP FIXES - impFAQ - NPC LIST - KIT LIST - AREA LIST

GitHub Links : BWP Fixpack | Lolfixer | BWP Trimpack | RezMod


#49 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 08:28 AM

Wait am I understanding this right? Is it a simple matter of duplicating blocks like:

 

IF
InParty("rh#Isra")
Global("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",LeaveParty())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT))
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ClearAllActions())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf())
SetGlobal("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",1)
Continue()
END

 

based on NPC im ARAM00.BCS?

This is for those NPCs that are either BG1 only or are designed to start in BG1 as (e.g).RH#Isra1 and later may join you in BG2 as RH#Isra8. Most mod NPCs work that way in order to be available in a game starting in BG2 without the BG1 part played..

Others that are continuous are prevented from spawning a second time in BG2 by the globals set in the transition,

Sandrah NPC is an exception since she is a BGT-only character and will only appear as the same cre in BG2 if she was in the BG1 transition party (by implicit design).

One (long dormant) BG1 NPC K-Rose was once supposed to be continuous but is not (she is bugged, and has never been touched in the last decade or so - why she is still in BWP/BWS???) - such an NPC will transit like those "6 of me" characters, i.e. they stay in the party and be dropped somewhere in Irenicus' Dungeon, however their scripts etc stay BG1 and they are either stuck in some wall or have idiotic dialogue or whatever since their status is somehow *undefined*,


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 08:29 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#50 The Imp

The Imp

    Not good, see EVIL is better. You LIVE.

  • Member
  • 3997 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 08:50 AM

Well, this line...

ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf()) 

Should be the move command usually, not destroy... after all you can also switch the NPCs dialog file, scripts, xp ammount etc etc so the character is then the BG2 one and have a continuous character .. also: Does the InParty -switch need to be there ? Cause you could move and remove all the BG1 NPCs at this point and have the ones moved that appear in BG2 replaced, and remove the BG1 only ones completely from the BG1 areas ... and thus all of them would be continuous. Via this example:

ActionOverride("Imoen2",MoveBetweenAreas("AR0602",[3198.2837],6))

As done to Imoen... it's not this simple. But it's closer. Also we need to make sure Level 1 NPCs mod and other mods work with this system.


Edited by The Imp, 16 November 2015 - 09:15 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#51 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 09:08 AM

Well, this line...
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf()) 

Should be the move command usually, not destroy... after all you can also switch the NPCs dialog file, scripts, xp ammount etc etc so the character is then the BG2 one and have a continuous character .. also: Does the InParty -switch need to be there ? Cause you could move and remove all the BG1 NPCs at this point and have the ones moved that appear in BG2 replaced, and remove the BG1 only ones completely from the BG1 areas ... and thus all of them would be continuous.

... it's not this simple. But it's closer. Also we need to make sure Level 1 NPCs mod and other mods work with this system.

The option exists right now and is for decision of the respective modmaker. Most of them create generic characters to work with BG1, BG2, EE(whatever), Tutu and BGT - thus they follow the convention of starting a new cre in BG2.

In case you want a continuous character for BGT you could use code similar to this


ActionOverride("Dude",DropInventory()) >>> otherwise this may be a cheat to get 
    extra stuff into BG2
ActionOverride("Dude",LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride("Dude",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT)) 
ActionOverride("Dude",SetDialog("DudeP")) 
SetGlobal("DudePartyBG1","GLOBAL",1) 
ActionOverride("Dude",MoveBetweenAreas("xxxxxx",[xxxx.xxxx],x))

Then use the 
!Global("DudePartyBG1","GLOBAL",1) to prevent the BG2 clone from spawning.

But - this decision should be made by the respective NPC mod maker. Apart from the transition itself, it may require more work within the mod itself, like adjusting other globals and dialogues in the mod to prevent BG1 contents to be triggered in BG2 and so on. Issues may be quite different for each individual mod and should be accessed by the mod maker should he/she wish for it.


Edited by Roxanne, 16 November 2015 - 09:19 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#52 Vlad

Vlad
  • Member
  • 530 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 01:59 PM

Sandrah NPC is an exception since she is a BGT-only character and will only appear as the same cre in BG2 if she was in the BG1 transition party (by implicit design).

 

Not only. Shar-Teel from NeJ, for example.  :)

 

 

Wait am I understanding this right? Is it a simple matter of duplicating blocks like:

 

IF InParty("rh#Isra")
Global("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",0)
THEN RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",LeaveParty())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT))
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ClearAllActions())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf())
SetGlobal("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",1)
Continue()
END

 

based on NPC im ARAM00.BCS?

 

Obviously, not, if you look at my ARAM00.bcs.

 

1) Those custom NPCs who are not in the party are not moved. Why should they move if you have already sent them away*.

 

*If you don't like the option of losing them somewhere in BG1, sent them to Copper Coronet by default via their P dialogue, and they will wait for you there.

 

2) Your NPCs including Bioware continuous NPCs who are in party during the transition are transferred as in my ARAM00.bcs (see Dude for example). 

 

3) All other BG1 NPCs including Bioware NPCs who are in party (Player2-Player6) and not supposed to be transferred or dead in BG2 (Khalid, Xzar and Montaron, Quale and so on) are not moved. They leave party and escape into nowhere of the binary code.

 

Per Item 2, and as Roxanne mentioned, if any mod maker is willing to have his/her NPC in BG1 and move him/her smoothly to BG2 (inside BGT game), he/she should take care himself/herself and add the "Dude" block to ARAM00.bcs in his installation. Items is another story though. But I always move them in containers (arrays), so they have never been lost. And for millions of gold I have at the end of BG1, I've created the component called Merchant Bank many years ago. It was originally available in our compatibility mod NeJ-BGT.

 

[EDIT] I don't consider moving items and gold as cheating. It's completely normal that after so many adventures, my PC is a rich guy with a considerable amount of gold in his bank account.

 

[EDIT2] Oh, it would be a good idea to make a cross-mod on how Shar-Teel makes you goody paladin girl fallen.  :lol:

 

Shar-Teel: (*Looking smugly at Accalia*) So Accalia, Hrothgar knows where your duty lays does he? (*Scoffs*)... Who do you think you’re fooling priestess, it’s as plain as the nose on your face that you wish your duty is to *lay with* the paladin! It has nothing to do with Tempus’ will or the will of any other god either... weak pathetic woman you are!  :lol:


Edited by Vlad, 16 November 2015 - 02:14 PM.


#53 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 16 November 2015 - 02:28 PM

Sandrah NPC is an exception since she is a BGT-only character and will only appear as the same cre in BG2 if she was in the BG1 transition party (by implicit design).

 

Not only. Shar-Teel from NeJ, for example.  :)

 

 

Wait am I understanding this right? Is it a simple matter of duplicating blocks like:

 

IF InParty("rh#Isra")
Global("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",0)
THEN RESPONSE #100
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",LeaveParty())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ChangeAIScript("",DEFAULT))
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",ClearAllActions())
ActionOverride("rh#Isra",DestroySelf())
SetGlobal("rh#IsraLeavesPartyBGT","GLOBAL",1)
Continue()
END

 

based on NPC im ARAM00.BCS?

 

Obviously, not, if you look at my ARAM00.bcs.

This is one major difference between Vlad and current BGT transition >>> in current those not leaving by script are transferred (sometimes creating the aforementioned K-Rose bug), In Vlad's script you positively identify who is transferred - all others per default are left out.

Vlad's code first uses the transfer blocks for a number of NPCs and then does a cleanup block for those still left around

.....
ActionOverride("Sharteel",SetDialog("SHARTP")) 
SetGlobal("SharteelPartyBG1","GLOBAL",1) 
ActionOverride("Sharteel",MoveBetweenAreas("AR0602",[3583.2919],9)) 
Wait(1) 
ActionOverride(Player2,LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride(Player2,EscapeArea()) 
ActionOverride(Player3,LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride(Player3,EscapeArea()) 
ActionOverride(Player4,LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride(Player4,EscapeArea()) 
ActionOverride(Player5,LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride(Player5,EscapeArea()) 
ActionOverride(Player6,LeaveParty()) 
ActionOverride(Player6,EscapeArea())

So no need for any mod with this code to care about the transition UNLESS you positively want your NPC to be moved.


 

 

1) Those custom NPCs who are not in the party are not moved. Why should they move if you have already sent them away*.

 

*If you don't like the option of losing them somewhere in BG1, sent them to Copper Coronet by default via their P dialogue, and they will wait for you there.

 

2) Your NPCs including Bioware continuous NPCs who are in party during the transition are transferred as in my ARAM00.bcs (see Dude for example). 

 

3) All other BG1 NPCs including Bioware NPCs who are in party (Player2-Player6) and not supposed to be transferred or dead in BG2 (Khalid, Xzar and Montaron, Quale and so on) are not moved. They leave party and escape into nowhere of the binary code.

 

Per Item 2, and as Roxanne mentioned, if any mod maker is willing to have his/her NPC in BG1 and move him/her smoothly to BG2 (inside BGT game), he/she should take care himself/herself and add the "Dude" block to ARAM00.bcs in his installation. Items is another story though. But I always move them in containers (arrays), so they have never been lost. And for millions of gold I have at the end of BG1, I've created the component called Merchant Bank many years ago. It was originally available in our compatibility mod NeJ-BGT.

 

[EDIT] I don't consider moving items and gold as cheating. It's completely normal that after so many adventures, my PC is a rich guy with a considerable amount of gold in his bank account.

 

[EDIT2] Oh, it would be a good idea to make a cross-mod on how Shar-Teel makes you goody paladin girl fallen.  :lol:

 

Shar-Teel: (*Looking smugly at Accalia*) So Accalia, Hrothgar knows where your duty lays does he? (*Scoffs*)... Who do you think you’re fooling priestess, it’s as plain as the nose on your face that you wish your duty is to *lay with* the paladin! It has nothing to do with Tempus’ will or the will of any other god either... weak pathetic woman you are!  :lol:


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#54 waebbl

waebbl
  • Member
  • 29 posts

Posted 21 November 2015 - 01:15 PM

Sorry for disturbing your interesting discussion about resolving this issue in general. I come back to this at the end of my post.
 
I got an actual stuck transition in my current installation.
 
The cutscene hangs, when Imoen comes up to <CHARNAME>'s cell and opens the door. She never opens it, but keeps repeating an animation where she tries to start some action, supposedly open the cell. It looks, as if she stands in the way for herself, or is not at the desired coordinates for opening the cell door.
 
Because I played the Candlekeep Chores, theres only my protagonist in the party at the end of the last scene. At the end of BG1, when speaking to Belt there were: Marina (protagonist), Sandrah, Minsc, Gavin, Imoen and Dynaheir in the party. Additionally there's my cat familiar, Haiass, Pelligram and the pack mule. I'm not sure whether and how those are affected by the transition. During Candlekeep Chores the familiar and the pack mule were present and accessible. The items in the mules bags were there too. I checked my ARAM00.BCS and found, that Gavin is not in there. I was thinking, he might be the source of this problem. On the other side, he's stated as a BGT char, so the mod might take care of him itself, I haven't checked this yet. In the zone Minsc and Jaheira are visible in their cells, all other cells are empty, in one is a corpse.
 
Save files: The QuickSave is just before talking the last time to Gorion, with only my protagonist, the other file is just before entering the palace in Baldur's Gate, just before the transition begins, with my full party.
 
My WeiDU.log

Spoiler

 
 
 
For the issue in general...
 

For all of them my approach would be to re-write a clean version taking into account the mods we know today rather than having them tweaked time and time again during a BGT-installation until mods start to block each other out (see Ellesime etc) or being non-compatible. Next establish a guideline for new mods that want to append to the new *standard*,
How to achieve that?

 
What about extracting the transition code from BGT (this is where it's currently in, if I understand it correctly) into a separate mod project to keep it more manageable. BGT already is quite a big project, with all the copying and modifying of all the BG1 files. Separating this piece of code makes it cleaner and easier for mod devs to get into the standard way of handling this.
 

Yes, all other mods should non-destructively add their NPCs to this script of course.

 

They *should*, I agree with you, but...
 

And that's bad. With several dozens of NPC mods being there for years, I believe it's safe to assume that 3/4 of their authors are gone and their mods won't change any longer. So while I understand that making these mods compatible is BWSs folks job, not BGTs, I wholeheartedly hope that BGT won't try to make their lives harder, because when a single mod don't play nice with that fifty mods over there it just gets beaten with rocks, thrown out and forgotten, and justly so.

How's the licensing of those mods? I haven't looked at many, but a lot of what I've seen have a very liberal license. So, what about importing the code of those mods, whose devs are gone or don't longer care about their mods, into github? They don't need to be changed much, just so, that they work for the transition or for fixing bugs. We only need one or a couple of people willing to maintain the repositories. :devil:

Attached Files



#55 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 21 November 2015 - 01:36 PM

Sorry for disturbing your interesting discussion about resolving this issue in general. I come back to this at the end of my post.
 
I got an actual stuck transition in my current installation.

By that point actually the transition has finished - it is more being stuck at BG2 start (I mention this just in case you may want to search for all those forum entries that talk about the case "Imoen walks up to my cage and has nothing to say" - there are loads of them.)

 
The cutscene hangs, when Imoen comes up to <CHARNAME>'s cell and opens the door. She never opens it, but keeps repeating an animation where she tries to start some action, supposedly open the cell. It looks, as if she stands in the way for herself, or is not at the desired coordinates for opening the cell door.
 
Because I played the Candlekeep Chores, theres only my protagonist in the party at the end of the last scene. At the end of BG1, when speaking to Belt there were: Marina (protagonist), Sandrah, Minsc, Gavin, Imoen and Dynaheir in the party. Additionally there's my cat familiar, Haiass, Pelligram and the pack mule. I'm not sure whether and how those are affected by the transition. During Candlekeep Chores the familiar and the pack mule were present and accessible. The items in the mules bags were there too. I checked my ARAM00.BCS and found, that Gavin is not in there.

Gavin is indeed a bit suspicious - his transition is done unlike all others in that he does not leave in ARAM00 but in AR0602 (Irenicus Dungeon) This may cause some issue in conjunction with all the other stuff happening here including Candlekeep scores. Is he the guy you do not see standing and blocking Imoen? I will check in your savefiles if I can see anything.

I was thinking, he might be the source of this problem. On the other side, he's stated as a BGT char, so the mod might take care of him itself, I haven't checked this yet. In the zone Minsc and Jaheira are visible in their cells, all other cells are empty, in one is a corpse.
 
Save files: The QuickSave is just before talking the last time to Gorion, with only my protagonist, the other file is just before entering the palace in Baldur's Gate, just before the transition begins, with my full party.
 
My WeiDU.log

Spoiler

 
 
 
For the issue in general...
 

For all of them my approach would be to re-write a clean version taking into account the mods we know today rather than having them tweaked time and time again during a BGT-installation until mods start to block each other out (see Ellesime etc) or being non-compatible. Next establish a guideline for new mods that want to append to the new *standard*,
How to achieve that?

 
What about extracting the transition code from BGT (this is where it's currently in, if I understand it correctly) into a separate mod project to keep it more manageable. BGT already is quite a big project, with all the copying and modifying of all the BG1 files. Separating this piece of code makes it cleaner and easier for mod devs to get into the standard way of handling this.
 

Yes, all other mods should non-destructively add their NPCs to this script of course.

 

They *should*, I agree with you, but...
 

And that's bad. With several dozens of NPC mods being there for years, I believe it's safe to assume that 3/4 of their authors are gone and their mods won't change any longer. So while I understand that making these mods compatible is BWSs folks job, not BGTs, I wholeheartedly hope that BGT won't try to make their lives harder, because when a single mod don't play nice with that fifty mods over there it just gets beaten with rocks, thrown out and forgotten, and justly so.

How's the licensing of those mods? I haven't looked at many, but a lot of what I've seen have a very liberal license. So, what about importing the code of those mods, whose devs are gone or don't longer care about their mods, into github? They don't need to be changed much, just so, that they work for the transition or for fixing bugs. We only need one or a couple of people willing to maintain the repositories. :devil:


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#56 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:03 PM

Sorry for disturbing your interesting discussion about resolving this issue in general. I come back to this at the end of my post.
 
I got an actual stuck transition in my current installation.

By that point actually the transition has finished - it is more being stuck at BG2 start (I mention this just in case you may want to search for all those forum entries that talk about the case "Imoen walks up to my cage and has nothing to say" - there are loads of them.)

 
The cutscene hangs, when Imoen comes up to <CHARNAME>'s cell and opens the door. She never opens it, but keeps repeating an animation where she tries to start some action, supposedly open the cell. It looks, as if she stands in the way for herself, or is not at the desired coordinates for opening the cell door.
 
Because I played the Candlekeep Chores, theres only my protagonist in the party at the end of the last scene. At the end of BG1, when speaking to Belt there were: Marina (protagonist), Sandrah, Minsc, Gavin, Imoen and Dynaheir in the party. Additionally there's my cat familiar, Haiass, Pelligram and the pack mule. I'm not sure whether and how those are affected by the transition. During Candlekeep Chores the familiar and the pack mule were present and accessible. The items in the mules bags were there too. I checked my ARAM00.BCS and found, that Gavin is not in there.

Gavin is indeed a bit suspicious - his transition is done unlike all others in that he does not leave in ARAM00 but in AR0602 (Irenicus Dungeon) This may cause some issue in conjunction with all the other stuff happening here including Candlekeep scores. Is he the guy you do not see standing and blocking Imoen? I will check in your savefiles if I can see anything.

I was thinking, he might be the source of this problem. On the other side, he's stated as a BGT char, so the mod might take care of him itself, I haven't checked this yet. In the zone Minsc and Jaheira are visible in their cells, all other cells are empty, in one is a corpse.
 
Save files: The QuickSave is just before talking the last time to Gorion, with only my protagonist, the other file is just before entering the palace in Baldur's Gate, just before the transition begins, with my full party.
 
My WeiDU.log

Spoiler

 
 
 
For the issue in general...
 

For all of them my approach would be to re-write a clean version taking into account the mods we know today rather than having them tweaked time and time again during a BGT-installation until mods start to block each other out (see Ellesime etc) or being non-compatible. Next establish a guideline for new mods that want to append to the new *standard*,
How to achieve that?

 
What about extracting the transition code from BGT (this is where it's currently in, if I understand it correctly) into a separate mod project to keep it more manageable. BGT already is quite a big project, with all the copying and modifying of all the BG1 files. Separating this piece of code makes it cleaner and easier for mod devs to get into the standard way of handling this.
 

Yes, all other mods should non-destructively add their NPCs to this script of course.

 

They *should*, I agree with you, but...
 

And that's bad. With several dozens of NPC mods being there for years, I believe it's safe to assume that 3/4 of their authors are gone and their mods won't change any longer. So while I understand that making these mods compatible is BWSs folks job, not BGTs, I wholeheartedly hope that BGT won't try to make their lives harder, because when a single mod don't play nice with that fifty mods over there it just gets beaten with rocks, thrown out and forgotten, and justly so.

How's the licensing of those mods? I haven't looked at many, but a lot of what I've seen have a very liberal license. So, what about importing the code of those mods, whose devs are gone or don't longer care about their mods, into github? They don't need to be changed much, just so, that they work for the transition or for fixing bugs. We only need one or a couple of people willing to maintain the repositories. :devil:

 

I have looked at the files you attached and with repsect to transition I can see no issues.

According to the quicksave (This is in CtB Candlekeep after Chores Dialogue) the transition with all aspects has finished already successfully  - everybody is where they should be - all globals are set etc...

Imoen has her correct dialogue assigned after transition (Imoen10.dlg) and should say next "Wake up, you! Wake up! Come on, we have to get out of here!" the dialogue to start BG2

Gavin is as innocent as always, he has been successfully removed and you will find him later in Athkatla,

I cannot comment on your *familiar* I have no idea what those are supposed to do under these circumstances.

I had packmule with me during some recent transition tests and there are no issues with this.

Pelligram is close to Sandrah and where you will find both to rejoin later.

Haiass will wait outside of the dungeon on the promenade for you.

 

If I understand correctly you are hung in cutscene mode? So you are not able to talk to Imoen yourself.??

This is what happens

Wait(3)
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",OpenDoor("DOOR11"))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",MoveToPoint([3405.2924]))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",Face(0))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",SmallWait(5))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",MultiPlayerSync())
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",MoveToObject(Player1))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",Unlock("Cell03"))     >>>>This is where you maybe are stuck
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",OpenDoor("Cell03"))
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",MultiPlayerSync())
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",UnhideGUI())     >>> Here you get your controls back again
        ActionOverride("Imoen2",Dialogue(Player1))
        DestroySelf()

 

And if that is true, this is original code unaffected by the transition that fails. If you can confirm my analysis we could probably provide a quick solution for it in a minute.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#57 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:21 PM

@ waebbl

 

You may try this

Put attached file into override folder

Go to the quicksave to talk to Gorion again

The cutscene with Imoen appearing should repeat

If you get stuck again you should be having your controls again so you could act yourself

e.g. strg+J out of the cage for Imoen to reach you or initiate talk with her


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#58 The Imp

The Imp

    Not good, see EVIL is better. You LIVE.

  • Member
  • 3997 posts

Posted 22 November 2015 - 12:01 AM

How's the licensing of those mods? I haven't looked at many, but a lot of what I've seen have a very liberal license. So, what about importing the code of those mods, whose devs are gone or don't longer care about their mods, into github? They don't need to be changed much, just so, that they work for the transition or for fixing bugs. We only need one or a couple of people willing to maintain the repositories. :devil:
Well, considering that none of the BG mods are actually legistlatively protected by any kind of law, or instance(with the exacption of ALL the BG2 mod forums)... we are deep on the gray zone. You can lie to your users and put a users prefered copyright to your readme, but like said, it's a lie.
As modifying a file doesn't make it yours.
Weidu.exe can't actually make a BG2 files, so that their entire content would be considerable to be yours.

It's mostly honor bound system. Just like it's an honor bound to not to destroy the users game files, computer etc if you install a random mod. That kind of thing.
And also using others files can be called bad practice, but doing so is a guestion of worth. Usually it's not worth to cause a lot of mess by intentionally causing bad things.

Edited by The Imp, 22 November 2015 - 12:07 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#59 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 22 November 2015 - 12:58 AM

@ waebbl

 

You may try this

Put attached file into override folder

Go to the quicksave to talk to Gorion again

The cutscene with Imoen appearing should repeat

If you get stuck again you should be having your controls again so you could act yourself

e.g. strg+J out of the cage for Imoen to reach you or initiate talk with her

attachicon.gifNEWGAME.BCS

I finally found the issue blocking Imoen from your cage - it is your familiar (a Cat, green circled so this is why I think it is the familiar, she was also sitting next to your PC in Gorion's scene) she is sitting right in front of the cage door and Imoen cannot reach the door.

I have never used familiars myself and know not how they are handled - Can you tell her to go somewhere prior to starting the final talk with Gorion?

And maybe with this - it has become again a transition issue in the wider sense = transition with a familiar case.

 

In order to find it, I have again modified the cutscene script slightly - you get your full controls earlier, you will be able to see the cat and can move her out of Imoen's way so she does not get stuck - worked for me.

 

Edit I saw WTPFamiliars mod in your Weidu log - worth to investigate if that mod does something to the transition of familiars??


Edited by Roxanne, 22 November 2015 - 01:12 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*


#60 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 2315 posts

Posted 22 November 2015 - 02:34 AM

How's the licensing of those mods? I haven't looked at many, but a lot of what I've seen have a very liberal license. So, what about importing the code of those mods, whose devs are gone or don't longer care about their mods, into github? They don't need to be changed much, just so, that they work for the transition or for fixing bugs. We only need one or a couple of people willing to maintain the repositories. :devil:
Well, considering that none of the BG mods are actually legistlatively protected by any kind of law, or instance(with the exacption of ALL the BG2 mod forums)... we are deep on the gray zone. You can lie to your users and put a users prefered copyright to your readme, but like said, it's a lie.
As modifying a file doesn't make it yours.
Weidu.exe can't actually make a BG2 files, so that their entire content would be considerable to be yours.

It's mostly honor bound system. Just like it's an honor bound to not to destroy the users game files, computer etc if you install a random mod. That kind of thing.
And also using others files can be called bad practice, but doing so is a guestion of worth. Usually it's not worth to cause a lot of mess by intentionally causing bad things.

My approach to the issue would be to create a dedicated mini-mod for this.

The mod would be based on a stripped down version of Vlad's script (stripping all the NEJ specifics and retaining the generic parts) no copyright issue here as Vlad has offered his work for such a purpose.

This *basic script* would

- transit the apppropriate vanilla NPCs (Imoen,Minsc, Jaheira to BG2)

- it would remove all other NPCs from the party and the game

- it would move some vanilla items to Irenicus Dungeon

- it would contain a check for a NEJ specific Global and only fire if that one is zero

 

This mod goes into the install sequence just after BGT and prior to NEJ

(Option A to either overwrite original ARAM00,bcs - in this particular case I really advocate overwriting instead of appending, otherwise we replace one mess by another Option B trigger a new scene by Belt weighted dialogue to let everything happen in ARAM01)

 

If NEJ is installed it would EXTEND_TOP *basic script* and set a specific global such that it fires its extended script instead of basic

 

No other NPC or other mod would be required to add to this script unless

- they want a transition for their PC to SoA (in this case EXTEND_TOP *new script* such that the selected PC is moved into Amn before the big cleanup starts

- a mod that has the BGT transition AND a BG2 version of their NPC must also take care to avoid double spawning in the BG2 areas of their NPC (this is not necessarily ar0602, so it is for the modmaker to assure that - just simply set a global if NPC is in transition party, only spawn in BG2 if said global is zero)

- as for cheating items from BG1 to BG2, I think this is outdated and must not be part of the transition - use packmule, use the rod of refuge area, use Sandrah's feature to recover lost valuables, or simply make use of all the new merchants in Amn and pay with merchant legue checks...take it as a good chance to get rid of all the garbage you have accumulated.


Edited by Roxanne, 22 November 2015 - 02:37 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*




Reply to this topic