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About Assassin.

Started by -Hoo- , Feb 03 2012 08:56 AM

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16 replies to this topic

#1 -Hoo-

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 08:56 AM

Hi. First I appreciate aVENGER giving us this great mod. :clap:

I have played BG with BGT/RR so many times and I was very satisfied with RR, however, I have a little suggestion for Assassin.

I really love Assassin's new abilities such as Death Attack, but as you know, Assassin is seriously weak in the early stage.

Vanilla's Poison ability and Bonus +1 to hit and +1 damage were nerfed/removed at RR. And new features for Assassin that are added by RR can acquire after the mid game of BG2 part only. It means that Assassin is the weakest class in BG1. Assassin not only take only 15 ability points per lvl (even though he is specialized in backstabbing/assassination, he can't hide well due to the disadvantage) but also lose all of the beginning adavantages at RR.

As a result, Assassin might be attractive after he take high level, but I think we can adjust and reduce Assassion's balance gap between low lvl and high lvl.

We may consider:
  • buffing Poison abilitiy slightly
  • returning his +1 hit/dmg bonus
  • giving higher backstab modifier at low lvl (Maximum backstab modifier is still 7*)
  • giving some abilitiy bonuses to hide in shadows/Move silently, and so on.
Hmmm... How about it? :rolleyes:

#2 aVENGER

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:29 AM

  • buffing Poison abilitiy slightly
  • giving higher backstab modifier at low lvl (Maximum backstab modifier is still 7*)
Hmmm... How about it? :rolleyes:


I'll give those two some thought.

#3 Dakk

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:11 AM

  • buffing Poison abilitiy slightly
  • giving higher backstab modifier at low lvl (Maximum backstab modifier is still 7*)
Hmmm... How about it? :rolleyes:


I'll give those two some thought.

If it's even possible engine-wise, having an assassin start with say 2x backstabbing would be pretty cool. Or,alternatively, having a faster backstab progression, but I'd imagine that would need to be externalised by TobEx?

Edited by Dakk, 03 February 2012 - 10:12 AM.

#4 -Chuck-

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:28 AM

I definitely agree with the OP. I usually play vanilla assassin in BG and then switch to the RR version at higher levels in BG2.

#5 -Chuck-

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:09 AM

I just recently finished BG2 using the vanilla assassin since I haven't played the original in version in a while. I have to admit I really miss vanilla's poison ability. With the RR version I ending up not using it much cause it just didn't work most of the time. Being able to put 3 pips in dual wielding seems nice for an assassin but since his THACO is pretty lousy I never could hit much in melee outside of a backstab. So the vanilla's slightly better THACO and damage was cool to have again. Death attack is the only ability that I missed from the RR version. Now this is not a petition to change the RR assassin. This was just an observation I had after playing the vanilla assassin again. I just had this feeliing from this game that the RR assassin is a bit weaker overall than the vanilla assassin. To me when I think assassin, I think amazing sneak attacks. Okay we got that with X7 backstab and death attack. I also think poison. The RR poison ability is borderline useless. At least that was my experience. Most poison-worthy targets always made their saves for the most part. Like I said before, I ended up not using it much. Anyways, just my 2 cents. I think this is one of the best mods out there. Just giving feedback. Thanks.

#6 aVENGER

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 11:25 AM

I just recently finished BG2 using the vanilla assassin since I haven't played the original in version in a while. I have to admit I really miss vanilla's poison ability. With the RR version I ending up not using it much cause it just didn't work most of the time.


Thanks for the detailed feedback.

The main difference is that the original Poison Weapon ability did a fairly large amount of damage even if the target made its save. RR's version only deals 1d4 points of damage in that case (contact poison). I understand that this may seem like a big difference for people who are used to the original version of the ability, but in my view, it was simply too overpowered. It should also be noted that RR's Poison Weapon has a save penalty which improves with the Assassin's level (eventually reaching -5 at level 40) so I don't think it should be that hard to poison targets that have naturally poor saves vs. death (i.e. mages and thieves).

BTW, as of the next version, Assassins will start with backstab x3 at level 1. They will still max out at x7 but it will happen a bit earlier than before.

#7 -Chuck-

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

Hey Avenger,

Thanks for the response and I absolutely love the idea of starting with a backstab x3 at level 1. That is very nice indeed. Also I hope my feedback doesn't sound like I'm just complaining or that I'm being nasty. I definitely don't mean it that way whatsoever. This is my favorite mod for sure and I also understand your reasoning for the changes you made. I just couldnt believe however powerful the poison ability was on the vanilla version after not playing it in while. I've been only playing the RR version all this time so when I finally tried the vanilla version again I was like....holy schnikies!!! At any rate thanks for the hard work on this mod. It's simply amazing.

#8 aVENGER

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:13 PM

No worries, constructive criticism is always welcome. :)

#9 Demivrgvs

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

BTW, as of the next version, Assassins will start with backstab x3 at level 1. They will still max out at x7 but it will happen a bit earlier than before.

Damn, the more you tweak RR's kits the less my KR ones will be different! :D Jokes aside I thought this would have been my signature difference considering it's not as per PnP and generally you are the closest to PnP and I'm the slightly more "liberal". :)

#10 Gay Lord

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 02:05 PM

BTW, as of the next version, Assassins will start with backstab x3 at level 1. They will still max out at x7 but it will happen a bit earlier than before.

Is there an easy way to do this in our own games now? I'm even thinking of starting them with x4 stab.

#11 Demivrgvs

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 11:47 PM


BTW, as of the next version, Assassins will start with backstab x3 at level 1. They will still max out at x7 but it will happen a bit earlier than before.

Is there an easy way to do this in our own games now? I'm even thinking of starting them with x4 stab.

Easiest way: open Valygar's cre file and copy/past the backstab multiplier opcode used to grant stalkers their backstabbing ability. :D

Btw, 3x at 1st lvl is really close to be OP within BG1 imo (still fine but extremely powerful), but 4x at 1st lvl is INSANE even within BG2 (e.g. 6x within Irenicus dungeon).

#12 Gay Lord

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 09:12 AM

It's been a very, very long time since I've played BG2, and I don't remember much about gameplay. I don't even remember who Valygar is. All my playing has been with BG1, so my thoughts center around Montaron.

I agree with aVENGER that the poison ability of the tutu assassin was overpowered for a BG1 game. However, even making Monty a single classed assassin with L1NPCs and putting all his thief skills into Move and Hide exclusively, I still found his sneak ability failing constantly, such that he was rarely ever able to stab anything. As a result, he became little more than a 2nd rate shooter. He wasn't useful as a thief, since all his points went to stealth, and even his stealth rarely worked, so he didn't have much to offer me. I could have used Kivan or Coran as much better shooters if I wanted that.

Because in my game play Monty rarely stabbed anyone, and even when he did (getting stuck behind enemy lines in the process) he rarely killed, I was thus thinking of possibly giving him x4. Now, I play hardcore (I don't reload) where death is permanent, so my party rarely got past the mines (I will NOT be installing Dark Kobolds on this playthrough :wall: ) so it may be that Monty's stabbing might become useful later on. He just never survived long enough for me to find out.

I'm not sure what value is balanced, I'll have to see.

#13 -Chuck-

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:30 AM

Hey Avenger are you still planning on giving the assassin x3 backstab at level 1 as well as the ability to reach x7 earlier than level 21?

#14 aVENGER

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

Yes, it's planned for v4.50.

#15 -Meso-

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 12:30 AM

Is there any news of next release? I hope to meet upgraded Assassin as fast as I can. :new_thumbs:

#16 Wisp

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 05:55 AM

Give me a couple of hours and I'll have v4.50 ready.

#17 Hoo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 10:35 AM

Oh... I noticed the new RR has been released today. Now Assassin has x3 backstabbing at 1st lvl!

BTW, Poison ability seems not to change... Is it canceled?
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