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Kiyone's bow... (and other minor stuff)


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#1 valky

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:13 AM

Just went a bit thru the game file and noticed some 'minor' inconsistencies with the bow and the upgrades are kinda OP or at least "very" powerful.

Basic bow:
- +2 to-hit & damage instead of +1 (noticed only while doing weird stuff in the equipping screen and the thac0 went down compared to a similar bow)

1st upgrade:
There is a launcher and ammunition entry and both usually stack, so the 'final' shot got a to-hit bonus of +6 and +5 to damage. You should delete the 'launcher' entry at all (my reference was Tansheron & Firetooth) an re-tune the projectile to use the proper value of +2/+2 instead of +4/+4.

2nd upgrade:
Same as above, only that it's now a +9/+9 boost or a +6 weapon while determining what it can hit measured by the projectile (= everything ^^)

[edit: I think the bow got even the wrong enchantment level set]

Or is it intended to make th bow _that_ powerful? Feels a bit like cheating and edited the values myself according the description. Heck, even the +5 bow from Weimar's itemupgrade is less powerful *eg*

Further Kova's dagger is a bit weird - mind you am playing with full SCSII so melee/backstab is not really an option - the extra attack is lost and I guess kovadagf is just an 'test-item' ?
If I can make a suggestion :) Give him 2 different weapons, one melee and 1 ranged (though ranged can be compensated at the beginning & underdark as there are 2 decent throwing daggers). The throwing dag should get his +1 ApR back to make it equal to the other 2, while the melee version is unaffected. Else the melee version benefits from the extra attack, so the only solution are 2 different weapons. Beginning with the 1st upgrade the dagger (either way) becomes quite useful, so it'd be a loss to not use it. Currently using the *uhm* mod-styled throwing dagger, so the melee stuff is removed anyway..yet the script doesn't seem to properly catch them, so I just edited them.

Enemies:
While the scripted rogue parties aren't really a problem and more or less a minor annoyance, the 3 cowled enforcer gimped by SCSII are a PitA! I think they are either lvl 16 or 18 and with a startup party of maybe ~10 (like in my case) they are ridiculous hard, if am getting caught flat-footed.
I know it was part of several discussions in this thread and I assume without SCSII they are a joke anyway. Usually pay my money to keep the other wizards out of my way early on, but **** :P
Yet thanks to having a good-aligned party, Keldorn is an option - and was planned anyway with my imported fighter->cleric - so the dispel is the only 'real' countermeasure. Else breach & spell thrust just goes *poof* and I haven't access to lvl 6+ spells yet. And remove magic casted with lvl 10 against lvl 16 or 18 is pointless :) Or am about to empty my whole spell-repertoire just on those 3 enemies at once..compared to the other 'scripted' regularly enemies at this level.

Don't get me wrong, it's not really a complain; cause am good at hammering quicksave so I usually know the spawns and unleash stuff like chaos, greater command and alike in the next tries, so at least something hits - but the scripted protections and contingencies makes them one hell of an enemy.

Hope I don't talk shit, but am pretty sure those events are triggered by having Kova, else am using only Tyris Flare and tweaks/fixpack/a couple of modules from atweaks and SCSII (full).

It's only about the early game, guess later wizards and alike are going to be okay, cause I won't lack prot-stripping spells.


That aside :Þ
Awesome NPC-mod, enjoying it to the fullest - only some banter trigger are bit odd, cause it seems more important to discuss Kova than to fight some vampires.

You might wanna add the proper order of the first 3 clues in the mini-walkthrough too; cause am pretty sure after having all of them (including the 'hint') I gave hint+1+3 and the 2nd clue got ignored and I got my absolution. Reloaded it in that case but never paid real attention to it.
But need to confirm it, messed my 1st game up anyway while updating some mod, so I just started the clue-collecting stuff again.(I think the first 3 steps are only part of some thread in here but not the walkthrough)

Edited by valky, 28 December 2012 - 06:22 AM.


#2 Zyraen

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:19 PM

Thank you for enjoying BTL despite all its flaws :) I'm glad you had fun despite the overpowered weapons etc.

 

Thanks for the heads up :) I was shocked at the Kiyone Bow note, but then I did a check and what you've said is right. I will probably remove the Launcher completely as well, and leave the Nerfed Item as having infinite +1 ammo. 

I once played Kiyone to ToB Ascension and made a similar complaint, asking if she was OP as an Archer or if all Archers are OP. Now it seems I've found part of the cause.

 

One of the dirty cheese tricks I used for the Wizards was to trigger them in the Slums, running straight into Copper Coronet, and then coming out the other door and sniping them down one by one. That said they may move in a coordinated group in SCSII, or pursue you into the CC. So not sure if that might help.

 

I actually had a lot of banters written in and one issue was that the Banters might not complete by the time you finish the game, hence I had an inbuilt Timer to hurry things along. That said, it might be a reason why the Banters spring up at odd times ^^;;. I'll be making some minor changes to this Timer, basically cutting down the number of Internal banters and then increasing the Timer interval.

 

Oddly enough, the first 3 clues don't have a proper order. They're not sequential though they are related, and 1 is stand-alone (the one with Dayven). One of the quests in the Walkthrough - getting the sheafs from Corneil - is not one of the first 3 clues, it is but a delay if you need time with Myroven.


kiyos.jpg____btlbn2.gif____kovaS.jpg
Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links

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Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
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#3 valky

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

Aah, I used the order of the 3 clues from another thread and time wasn't really an issue if focussed solely on this, maybe I was just wrong in my first game. Ignored the pick-pocketed item now completely and everything was fine.

 

And the wizards, I seemed to be always very lucky with the trigger and having a quicksave like 10 seconds right before. So usually Gr.Command/chaos usually hits 2 of them and that gives me time to finish off the 3rd one. Should maybe abuse the run-into-some-house tactic more often but am doing fine my way, yet they are pretty strong if you grab Ki/Kova early on, cause the lack of at least more lvl 5 spell-slots, but it's getting better now. Plus the mentioned Inquisitor-Dispel...

 

Anyway the banter-stuff is not really annoying, only some trigger feel a bit odd and maybe I was just having bad luck, cause Tyris *glares* at me every now and then in the same manner. Looks like my 3 new NPC enjoy talking right before some fight to boost their morale :P And I actually like reading that stuff too...

 

At least the bow-stuff is confirmed, I think the dagger is just some personal preference, cause he has 3 pips anyway and the melee version is doing fine with the removed extra ApR. With the vanilla throwing-dagger behaviour that'd be way more OP, specially with the last upgrade & 2.5 ApR instead of 1.5. I think the game-engine allows some specials to go thru any defense if it'd be a hit - like the stun from Celestial Fury. And a decapitation-like procc .. holy...

As mentioned, changed the items to reflect the description, so they aren't OP in my game but I was about to getting the 1st upgrade pretty soon and the sudden increase in damage for the bow would be noticeable otherwise and specially the 'what-it-can-hit' measured by the ammunition :)



#4 Zyraen

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 06:25 PM

'what-it-can-hit' measured by the ammunition'what-it-can-hit' measured by the ammunition
<-- yeah that was the main kicker for the bow.
 
The Dagger is just meant to be spiffy. The Vorpal proc should only be more useful somewhere around ToB. At that later stage, a Mage/Thief has decent enough Thac0 and enough Defensive Magic to go into Melee (though not frontline melee). For most of SoA, just from a "so I don't have to reload when he dies suddenly" perspective, firing is almost certainly better. And 5% is not really very much, but that's just me being stupid ^^;;

Down to it, I'm of the view that Kova is more defined by his Armor, which is overall more useful, and Kiyone is more defined by her Bow. Yet the Nerfed Versions of the item that are included with the BTL mod neglect all of these "considerations" and "obligations" to have them have identifiable armor and weapons, and go straight for balancing them as middle-weak BG2 gear. Which make it feasible to simply have them wear/use other equipment.

Edited by Zyraen, 30 December 2012 - 06:31 PM.

kiyos.jpg____btlbn2.gif____kovaS.jpg
Love between a Law Enforcer and a Fugitive - can such a thing even happen?
SoA Release - Overview / Download Links

Zyraen's Miscellaneous Mods - Ust Natha Accelerator, item tweaks, XP caps, The Ub3r Reaver Kit, and much more...
Spellhold Gauntlet - more than just a Spellhold-Be-Gone
Hidden Kits - hidden dual-classed kits with a twist for progression


#5 valky

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 05:18 AM

Down to it, I'm of the view that Kova is more defined by his Armor, which is overall more useful, and Kiyone is more defined by her Bow. Yet the Nerfed Versions of the item that are included with the BTL mod neglect all of these "considerations" and "obligations" to have them have identifiable armor and weapons, and go straight for balancing them as middle-weak BG2 gear. Which make it feasible to simply have them wear/use other equipment.

 

The balancing of their items is more than well done (if fixed *eg* though), they aren't neither omnipotent (or OP) nor do they lack specials/damage to get behind other 'common' gear.

Have to admit I play with Weimars ItemUpgrade as well, so specially the bow can be replaced - but that's at a very late stage in SoA (gesen bow-string is needed). But on the other hand, Kiyone's 2nd upgrade is awesome as well - I currently rely on Keldors' TrueSight, cause I need my casters' spell-slots otherwise :P

And if am to compare both bows (weimars teleomortis & Kiyo's) they are roughly on pair; doesn't really matter if the first is +4 or yours is +3 - though as far as I can remember in ToB there were some or quite some +3 immunities to be found. Then again with SCSII this is completely negated, you'll already found them right after getting Kova :)

Only the unbalanced or bugged version is truly beyond good and evil, as it can hit 'everything' (remember +6) and Ascension or Tactics does only raise specific encounters, but not everything or use kinda cheating to make encounter unfair (tactics).

 

No complain about the armor, currently using a 'slightly' modified Valygar-version for her to get the Weimar-upgrade (removed the stupid restriction to elves/half-elfes..they are rangers as well *d00h*!) but Kova's is pretty awesome with the 1st upgrade. I 'really' NEED that backstab immunity.. and Vecna goes usually to my full-time caster.

 

[your unfixed bow reminds me at the gear you found in the stupid anvil mod *duck & cover* .. that shit is OP; only read the description but had to lol at some or most of the items; to the lesser Weimar's item aren't necessary perfect as well but he tried to maintain some balance or made them available very late. But I played thru that game more than enough, so it's up to me at last]

 

Oh; cooking banter <3 !!!!! Can't wait to trigger those fishing stuff :Þ

Romance went without any bugs or dialogs issues to the 2nd stage for me, looking forward to see their marriage in hell ^^

 

[honestly, I tried quite some NPC mods..but usually quit playing in chapter 2 or 3 cause they just pissed me off and I was just too lazy to switch all my NPC again. I think the last one was that silly 15year old paladin kid *rofl*. Your mod is more than just most welcome *bow*]