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NPC: Caoco

NPC Caoco

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#41 Turambar

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:23 PM

It's a quite interesting idea, there are not many fiend NPCs around: the only other full-fiend NPC i can think of is Fall From Grace from Torment, but that's a completely different setting, where those creatures are far more common (Sigil). Anyway, the way she interacts with the Material Plane could be very particular, since she's grown *elsewhere*.

 

Just one thing which puzzles me: I'm not sure if fiends are born like mortals, ie whether they have parents or not... shouldn't they rather come from dead souls, either supplicants in Baator or kidnapped from the plane of fate, while they were waiting for their judgment by Jergal and Kelemvor? not sure though, or perhaps they can come into existance in both ways...


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#42 Rhaella

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

Hmm. Well, Tsujatha is an interesting case. I'm definitely a huge fan of the Byronic hero myself, so I get the appeal, but Tsujatha isn't really grounded in anything resembling realism. That's a problem for a lot of people, myself included. I wouldn't say that the concept is necessarily bad, but the implementation could've done with some work. Using a crazy concept to make a character deep isn't too hard; it's in making that depth believable that the problem lies. If you like Tsujatha, that's great, but I'd recommend actually doing some research into the problems that other people have with him before using him as a model. If you find that you don't buy the arguments at all, fine, but looking into them can only help you figure out if you're really on the right path.

As for what's cool... I do kind of like the idea of playing with the Nine Hells. Again, I would probably suggest going LE instead of CE, though. It makes more sense, is rarer when it comes to fiend-blooded NPCs, and to be fair, LE is a lot easier to write than CE, and a much better fit for just about any functioning party. And I think it's way more interesting, but that's just personal opinion.



#43 Kulyok

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:35 AM

First of all, good luck and have fun with it - fun is the best part of making a mod.

 

- You probably know a lot about the planes and fiends already(I couldn't tell which ones are lawful, and which ones are chaotic, myself. I only remember that phrase from the Watcher's Keep: "Tanar'ri! Tanar'ri in the guise of mortals, it is so!"), but I'd still say replay Planescape:Torment with Widescreen mod. Helps to get into the atmosphere. 

 

- It may be just me, but the name has two very strong associations for me: Caoco = Eastern name, possibly Japanese; Caoco = cocoa. The second association is probably a minus. Maybe a strong one. The first one - well, I don't know. But it may add things to her image you're not actually willing to add(anime associations, Kara-Tur associations, Yoshimo associations).

 

- I'm a little confused on one aspect after reading her backstory: I read that her half-sister helped her with something, and then the heroine wants to punish her father and half-sister? (Also, power for the sake power is a great thing, but usually it helps to have something more specific, so the player would understand and sympathize. For example, Edwin wants to rule Thay, because he's one of the Wizards of Thay, he's kin to a powerful wizard, and that's what all the wizards of Thay want. Is your heroine kin to the lords of her realm? Was she wronged by them? Did she deserve power by birth?)

 

- Squeamish players. When I read "in her womb" and "fibula", I'm a little squeamish(imagination running wild and so on). You may want to decide early on how explicit on clinical details you want to be and whether you'll want to put a site/Readme warning about it - or whether you need these details discussed in detail, or a light touch would do.

 

 

Finally, it's your mod, so you do what pleases you. I'll honestly say that I usually squee more at a certain type of male characters(tall, dark, strong and silent, a chance for a romance or a strong male friend, yep :) ). But if it's a labor of love, and a well-written one, it will find its audience, like Fade did.



#44 Mario

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

From a player's (and a huge Planescape Torment fan) point of view, I think the "problem" with Caoco's story is that it will not fit well with Charname's story. You are the son of a dead god, fighting for your life everyday (until the end of ToB) and all of a sudden you join forces with someone who's background is much more epic than yours.


She comes from Hell, she wants to rule it all. She may have her reasons to desire that, but how is she going to convince you to do it? Even being an evil Charname why bother in conquering the Nine Hells if your Godhood is almost at hand?

 

I love to play NPC mods, but I like to feel that the "star of the show" is my Charname (even Imoen is always in the back and she could be you). Taking with me someone far more marvelous than me is just not for me (thinking of Saerileth right now.... thank you but no, thank you -with all my respect for her creators-).

 

Think in all NPC mods out there, the one's more appreciated. Those characters are loved because of their story and their interactions with Charname, romantic or not (much more than for their quests, special items, stats, powers) and/or their background. I have played almost every NPC mod out there and the one's I keep on re-playing are the ones whose story and their relationship with my character are the best for me (So thanks Kulyok for dooming me to install Xan everytime I play the game and to suffer for the 6 people party limit.... and I only play the male-male friendship). People will try your mod if you do it bug free, if only to see what that new npc has to offer but I think that when Caoco starts to convince you to "Hey Charname, let's forget about that Jon Irenicus idiot and go visit Daddy and Sister and start a conquering War in the Hells"... people will lose interest.

 

I don't try to offend you or to mock about your idea, I'm sure that in your head her story is just fantastic, but I think that is better suited for a fanfic rather than for a mod. Anyways, good luck in doing her. We humans just have one life, so do whatever will make you happy. If making this mod is fun for you and makes you happy go for it !!!


Edited by Mario, 22 January 2013 - 06:52 AM.


#45 Nightwoe

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:12 AM

Caoco is being re-designed. Nine Hells are gone. She remains Half-Fiend, but completely different background. 2nd draft stats:

 

               

 

                STR: 17

                DEX: 12

                CON: 14

                INT: 12

                WIS: 9

                CHA: 14

 

Eh. Still not finalized stats. Still Warrior, haven't decided on Berserker Kit or not.

 

I want her dex to be higher, maybe try...

 

STR: 16

DEX: 15

CON: 13

INT:11

WIS: 9

CHA: 11


Edited by Nightwoe, 23 January 2013 - 08:15 AM.

"Bestiae sumus, ut non bestiae simus." -Nashkel Headstone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Friend: You're cats pretty muscle-y...what's his name?

Me: Sarevok.

Friend: "YOUR CAT'S A BHAALSPAWN???"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#46 Eric P.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

I'd bump her CON up to 16 or so; she should get some bonus HP per HD, unless there's a conceptual reason not to. The lower CHA makes sense. Maybe raise DEX a little as well.


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#47 Eric P.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:41 AM

It's at least equally likely that we humans get more than just one life, btw, but that's another matter ;)


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#48 Eric P.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 09:56 AM

A little detail on what the afterlife is like for inhabitants of Toril.


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#49 Nightwoe

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:02 AM

I'm pretty sure he means in Real Life, bro...


"Bestiae sumus, ut non bestiae simus." -Nashkel Headstone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Friend: You're cats pretty muscle-y...what's his name?

Me: Sarevok.

Friend: "YOUR CAT'S A BHAALSPAWN???"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#50 Eric P.

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:43 AM

So do I!


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#51 Mario

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:39 PM

Hehehe, obviously I meant in Real Life...

 

I hope that you didn't feel bad with my post and also hope you get her finished.



#52 Nightwoe

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 03:35 PM

Naw, you didn't offend me or anything. I was frustrated, but I know you all mean well. And you are all right, I over embellished the character. I do want to explain myself a little, though...I love original thoughts and characters, I get bored with characters who are like "Yeah, I came from this town, My mommy was this, my daddy was this, I love tacos, this is my god, I worship him, I think this and I think that..." And I'm sitting over here going "SHUTUUUUP!!!! You're so BORRRRRRRIIIIIIING!!!" The main reason I wanted to make Caoco is that I want MORE originality, MORE strange, borderline characters that have weird, twisted backgrounds, I want some MORBIDITY and fire. I was planning to make Caoco a sick bitch all together, a character that would befit a truly evil aligned party, a party where the main character wants to see the ruthless followers that would truly follow in the wake of the ascending Lord Of Murder.

 

Another thing that gets me is that I see A LOT of good aligned characters. no one makes evil characters, there are so few of them. For some time, I've sat back and looked at the romance mods and frowned at the lack of true evil-aligned content. I wish there was an evil aligned romance character for BG1 or just BG2 that looked with wonder and awe at the blood lust and violent nature of the PC. Something in vanilla that got under my skin quiet a bit with Anomen, mister dis-functional goody-two-shoes that served as the ONLY female protagonist choice, which you could control to make him good or neutral. If you wanted to play for evil, you were alone, while on the other hand, male protagonists got the choice of good, neutral, AND evil for romance options. Viconia is a great character, so is Aerie, and so is Jaheira. Anomen was good too, but his whining and uncertainty was enough to chafe until you couldn't take it anymore.

 

I wanted Caoco to break the mold and offer something even darker then Viconia, because I know I can't write a male character, as much as I would love to make the character that has some dark silhouette in the back of my mind.

 

But I'm ebbing off. I'm going to re-write Caoco and see what I can come up with. If I can't make her work, then I'm just going to scrap her altogether. I refuse to write a mod with mediocre results.


"Bestiae sumus, ut non bestiae simus." -Nashkel Headstone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Friend: You're cats pretty muscle-y...what's his name?

Me: Sarevok.

Friend: "YOUR CAT'S A BHAALSPAWN???"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


#53 -Nightwoe-

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 06:03 AM

To the administrators: Go ahead and delete or lock this topic, it's a crash and burn. Thanks again for everyone's opinions, I guess I'm just not cut out for this. I suppose I should stick to writing fan-fiction and dialogue. *I say all of this positively, no negative feelings, I promise :3*



#54 Eric P.

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:50 AM

Most disheartening, this is. Maybe put it all in the Orphan Characters sub-forum?


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#55 Eric P.

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

Hehehe, obviously I meant in Real Life...

 

I hope that you didn't feel bad with my post and also hope you get her finished.

In my view of Real Life, reincarnation exists.


Working and playing on a Mac Pro 3,1 running Mac OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan.

~Buion na 'ell! I serve with joy! Your eyes and ears I shall be. Let us hunt together!~
- Erysseril Gwaethorien: a joinable, romanceable NPC mod for BGII - SoA/ToB, in sporadic development.

A female elf warrior of nature and a Bhaalspawn cross paths during their quests, joining forces to share adventure and companionship. Will they find more?


#56 Choo Choo

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:24 AM

Let's not discuss religion, or religious beliefs, on the boards.

 

Also, thread locked per Nightwoe's wishes.


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