31 replies to this topic

[fetfreak]

Hello all.

I've been a fan of Baldur's Gate games and the mods for more than a decade now and recently some lately released mods made me install the game again and enjoy it once again.

I want to make that step and make a mod of my own. I used to make items for myself, years ago, but never did anything more complicated.

 

I would like to make a npc, a romanceable npc and here is the question.

 

I know there is a tutorial section but before I dive there I want to ask how does one start at the very beginning?

 

What tutorials should I check out first and what programs do I need to get?

I need to know where to start basically.

Oh and is it a lost cause that I don't have any modding experience?

 

Thank you all in advance.

[Daulmakan]

This would be a good place to start:

http://katbella.com/npcguide/

[Kulyok]

If it were me, I wouldn't read any basic NPC guides, or start with .cres and .itms; I'd stick to the story - that is, dialogue, and mainly PC-new NPC dialogue, from the joining one to the friendship/romantic/quest ones(although I'd leave "hey, you're a Bhaalspawn!/I don't trust the Shadow Thieves" for last). One thing I'd learn about coding straight away would be writing dialogue straight in .d, though, because it is a REAL pain to recode it afterwards(you can do it in OpenOffice/MS Word, too, easily). 

Tutorial sections in PPG/G3/SHS will be a great help eventually, but for now, I'd read just this: http://forums.pocket...ic,25198.0.html

This way you'll know whether you're committed enough to write hundreds of kb's of text. And good luck, naturally.

[fetfreak]

Thank you for the reply guys. I'm checking it out.

[fetfreak]

Ok, even after only a minute I see I'm gonna have a lot of questions so I'll use this topic for it.

 

Kulyok, your guide seems much more simple than Kat's and it's well explained but that's not the finished product. I wouldn't want to bother people for help, well more than this thread.

[Kulyok]

The thing is, there's a big difference between "I'm trying to start an NPC, what should I do?" and specific questions like

"Here's my first lovetalk, I'm going to code fifty more like it, please, tell me if my .d coding is screwed up or not?"

"Hey, I've got her romance track and her friendship talks coded in .d, which tutorial should I read to add script to this?"

"How to code NPC-NPC banters, anyone has a tutorial?"

"I've done this stuff, now I want to see it in game, I want to create a .cre file and a joining dialogue. Here's something in Kat's tutorial I don't understand..."

 

...But the way I see it, since 7(or nine, or ninety-nine) out of 10 people don't finish their mod, anyway, you might as well save the headaches of .cre files and area scripts and start with a fun part. Naturally, it's up to you. But from my experience, trying to learn all the hard stuff first drops your motivation below sea level quite quickly.

[Choo Choo]

I agree with Kulyok. The mistake that many new modders makes is to look at the technical stuff first, and then quit because it's overwhelming and difficult-looking. It's easier to brave it when you have a genuine NPC concept and some actual text written up, making you more motivated in finishing it.

 

It's good to see someone new interested in modding!

[fetfreak]

I understand.

 

So I gather that writting in .d is later easiest to code?

[Kulyok]

It is coded - well, sort of. It usually needs a script, but to write one or two blocks of script - well, compared to coding all your dialogue, it's a small task.

You might spend extra twenty minutes adding variables later, but it's easy enough.

 

I would recommend posting your first examples of .d coding here, so that if something's wrong in the pattern, it's corrected sooner rather than later. (And we're curious about your NPC and it's a clever ploy to see some of your dialogue, but I never said that).

 

And if you're serious about modding, once you've written a few dialogues(and if you're still sure you want to continue), go here and register a modding prefix for your NPC: http://forums.blackw...p?showtopic=113

You'll need it so that all your filenames and variables remain unique.

[Choo Choo]

A good way to save time, and also to become more comfortable with what you're doing, is to code as you write. Not right away; have a couple of dialogues written, have your mod concept clear first. That way (if you also have a basic tp2 and placeholder cre file set up and it's put in the game; see Kat's tutorial for that), you can test and iron out bugs as you go. It's a good way to learn.

[fetfreak]

Ok.

Thing is, the npc idea I have might be to hard for me to mod on this first attempt but I'll make you guys be the judge of that.

 

His name is Ike, a bard or a rogue (could go either way) who has an issue.

He has a split personality disorder (later in the story would be a twist about that) and I would probably have scripted scenes where one personality takes over the other and so forth.

The other personality would be evil and dangerous and would get Ike and the player in a lot of trouble. Trough friendship or romance and few side quests the player can help Ike overcome his demons.

 

That would be the short of it.

 

Is this overly ambitious?

 

I could come up with a more simple npc for my first take on a mod but let's say that Ike is what I really want to create.

 

Btw. I'm really into roleplaying games and I've been a dungeon master for 11 years now, so I have a stash of npc I could adapt to Forgotten realms setting.

[Kulyok]

The concept looks good to me: many people are bipolar to some degree, so it's something one can relate to. As for showing it, it depends on your creativity, really - I think the game engine could provide you with a permanent visual effect, a glow, a different armor, a different voiceset(if you voice it or find someone who does), a different dialogue menu(if you write it), whatever you want.

 

Regular cutscenes might work, too, although I would keep in mind

1) the player's annoyance level: Irenicus's dreams may become kind of annoying for a regular player, for one; 

2) the player's memory: if you're going to show his change by cutscenes and little else, the player may soon forget Ike had a cutscene, especially if nothing else(soundset, player-initiated menu) points to it.

 

I'd strongly recommend writing dialogue straight in .d, not coding it afterwards(saves time greatly) - and, yes, like Choo Choo said, placeholder setup is a good way to try your mod in game during some stage of development.

 

Quests WILL take lots of your time to code(coding Xan's, Angelo's and Nalia's was a nightmare) and especially to test, so "a few side quests" might be overly optimistic. But I'm probably getting ahead of myself.

Edited by Kulyok, 13 February 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[fetfreak]

Ok, so side quests are a bigger pain.

 

I had a idea that his personality transition may kick in when he is down on his hp (technically, something as a frenzy) and when a player becomes a friend, whenever the player is in a danger Ike would then allow himself to become the different and stronger for the sake of saving the player. I would definitely find scenes in the game that could trigger his personality change based on how heavy emotionally the scene is.

[Eric P.]

This character concept has a lot of potential, and is definitely not run-of-the-mill for NPCs, so it's always great to have something unusual that sets it apart

 

The subject of characters with DPD/MPD has been discussed in gaming circles for decades. I see no reason not to give it a go, as much (mis)adventure and amusement can come of it, and entertainment is what it's all about

 

As for writing/coding, some people have an easier time if they write out dialogue sets first (at least in rough draft), then frame it up with code, while other people set up the coding first, with some filler text, and then add the actual dialogue lines later. You'll know (or quickly get a feel for) which works best for you, and go with it. My approach has been to set up code first, then fill it in with dialogue, but I can't claim that this is the best approach for myself.

 

Don't hesitate to bring the many questions you will come up with as you work, because we're here to help each other

 

Happy modding, and welcome to it!

[fetfreak]

Thanx!

For now I'm doing a rough write up where I want dialogs to occur. I would definitively love Ike's personality issues to be solved by the end of spell hold, so now as I play the game I write down where I want what.

Is it a turn off for a npc mod not to have talks with bioware npcs? The thing is that there are some npcs that I don't like and I simply, 99% of the time, play without them.

If I would write a dialog with them, it would probably sound forced and bad.

Edited by fetfreak, 13 February 2013 - 10:51 AM.

[Argent77]

I know what you mean. I also haven't played with everyone of the Bioware NPCs until the end, which makes it difficult for me to come up with believable topics in the mod I'm currently working on.

However, if you read their dialog files in NearInfinity you'll get a feeling about how to deal with them. It won't hurt to look into the dialogs of other NPC mods, too. Even if you only come up with one or two banters with them will make a difference.

 

I wish you luck with your NPC. He sounds like an interesting character I'd like to play someday.

[Choo Choo]

I would recommend writing at least one banter per Bioware NPC; like Argent77 said, reading the dialogues of the NPCs you barely play with (and the ones you do - it's always good to refresh your memory) is really helpful in that regard. I would, however, not use NearInfinity to do that - use Infinity Explorer instead, since it's made specifically for viewing game resources.

[Almateria]

Why are you starting with an NPC, literally everyone does that

There are like five thousands NPCs, and 99% of them are absolutely worthless and I'm super sure this one will be too. Why can't you start with anything else?

 

fake edit: of course there is a romance.

[Choo Choo]

Why are you starting with an NPC, literally everyone does that

There are like five thousands NPCs, and 99% of them are absolutely worthless and I'm super sure this one will be too. Why can't you start with anything else?

 

fake edit: of course there is a romance.

 

Very rude, unhelpful and most of all discouraging to a new modder. Criticism is awesome as long as it's constructive. If it isn't, it's... well, absolutely worthless, to use your words.

[fetfreak]

Well Almateria if you have an idea for non npc mod, go ahead and make it. I'll be happy too play it once you make it.