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reccomended bws

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#21 The Imp

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 03:33 AM

Dynamic difficulty is the way to go (not always but especially for spawn with standards mobs) and BGspawn is  the only  mod taking account off it.

Seems to me that you have never played a western style RPG, there is nothing dynamic about a dungeon crawler ... if the dungeon master says you run into a dragon... you are pretty much dead. But then you get to change that imp to another "master".


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#22 Sergio

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 12:30 PM

hey,
I've got some questions:

1- why didn't you play the longer road?
2- what is the Tactics -"Swallowed whole"!?
3- why do you always advise to use SCS v21?
4- Lost crossroad or spell revisions? Why would I use both? You didn't insert an or, but am I wrong, or do they both change the spells?


Low hung brow, dazed look on your face..... It appears that you are correct, my friend. You are indeed a complete imbecile.


#23 kreso

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:01 PM

An update - call it "kreso's random ramblings about mods" :P and BW in general.

 

For newbies to BWS - before you go and use the program, be warned, that despite the (rather grand) work of all people involved in making this monstrosity work, CTDs, bugs, and various inconsistencies are rather common in BWS. So, be prepared and armed with at least minor knowledge of restoring various backup files from game, NearInfinity/DLTCEP usage, Shadowkeeper, and a ton of patience.

Second, don't simply use "recommended BWS" or "total hapiness". I don't know who "reccomends" that to be installed on your BG game (I certainly wouldn't).

Much better option is to choose the mods you want to play yourself.

 

Things to definitely skip, regardless of what you choose to play:

- Fixpack "beta" fixes. Should be labeled "beta bugs".

- Fixpack "alignment" fixes. "aligment fixes" my a**. Sorry, but isn't a fix.

- Lost Crossroads components Chant, Hypnotic Pattern, Mental Domination, Mold Touch, Cloud of Pestilence, Blade Barrier, Spacewarp, Sleep, Spook, Charm Person or Mammal, Stinking Cloud, Pyrotechics, Cloudkill, Domination, Fog Cloud, Web.

These either don't work well, don't work at all (Sleep), kill your characters instantly for no reason (Web), or cause hardcoded animations to stop playing; or worse, play constantly. Other components are relatively safe to use (and most of them work phenomenal I might add).

- The Bigg Tweaks - 3rd editon style stats. Unless you're willing to spend an afternoon removing extra unwanted saves which are applied via a spell which is applied numerous times on the same character (and it shouldn't be), I'd skip this. Don't be surprised if Viconia has a -10 save vs spells at level 9. :huh:

- Big Picture. Neutral mages casting offensive spells (this includes the very first mage you can meet in Candlekeep inn!) the moment they see you isn't good. Really. Random creeps AI should be reworked heavily (the way it works - cast a spell or launch an arrow at somebody, he will follow that arrow-slinger around until he dies.) That's very nerve-taxing. Or, revert to an older version, and edit the scripts random enemies use (I think it's BPWTA*****.bsc) and make the enemies less annoying yourself.

-AI party scripts (all)- while this is convinient, it can slow down the game a lot. Use at your own risk.

- Quayle Redone - for some odd reason, this breaks the transition to BG2. 

 

Things I wouldn't reccomend:

a) Mix and match 2 or more mods which do the same thing

Examples:

Spellpack + Spell Revisions. While this works, you better know what you're doing or you'll have serious inconsistencies in your game. SR introduces a saving throw system which is different from the original game - all Necromancy spells usually force a save vs Death, Evocations vs breath, Enchantement vs spells.

Spellpack reverts this, and makes the spells usually require a save vs spells, regardless of their school of origin. While this is perhaps a small change in the game mechanics - it's inconsistent. 

This is my current Weidu log, where I mix both SR and Spellpack, and change the relevent saving throws to SR system for consistency: (a special note goes to SpellPack's ADHW - this spell ignores Magic Damage resistance, pretty much breaking any and every AI mod there is - only MR or SI:Necromancy protect against it. I wouldn't suggest to install it if you don't know how to make it slightly more "vanilla-like".)

 

Spoiler

After some fixes/tweaks (I use "vanilla" spell removals, not "AoE" which are included in the current Spell Revisions, fix Kit Revisions, SCSv28/Ascension bugs etc), this is an enjoyable game with no crashes/bugs. I use only one mod I have never played (TOBR). To nerf the SR spells I find OP use either Spellpack's versions or tone down the hefty penalty myself.

How the game looks and plays like, read and see here. :new_thumbs:

 

SCS+BP

Spikes in difficulty. SCS is rather consistent, it improves on pretty-much every creature in the game. BP doesn't, but SCS won't do everything BP doesn't. So, you can meet a mage of 13th level which will behave a la SCS (contigency, minor trigger, pre-casts buffs etc.) and a BP level 16 mage who will pre-buff with random crap (Fireshield:Red) and die the following round.

 

b) Total reworks of the game system

Example - Full Plate & Packing Steel. While this is a decent mod, one has to edit out the list where armor values are located. Using the non-modified values is pretty-much gambreaking in BWP. 

Igi's "Learn through use" - nice and all, but I'd avoid this.

 

c) One-day NPC mods.

BWS has about a hundred "normal" NPCs to choose from. Why install more? You can only have 5 in your party. 

 

d) Mods that add powerful equipment to start of BG1

Things such as TeamBG's Armor/Weapons pack, Dark Horizons. I don't want this kind of equipment in BG1. Tastes may differ, but having a stunning +2 shortsword and a +2 throwing dagger right out of Beregost on two creeps who fail their save against a simple Hold Person spell isn't my idea of having fun. 

 

e) "big mods"

Before installing those, read  about them; while this is true for all mods, "big ones" deserve more care. Then ask yourself - "Do I really need this?"

 

f) Vampire mods

Apart Valen (which is somewhat fun if you're feeling nostalgic or are new to the game) they're pretty-much nonsensical. (Hexxat included) :P



#24 kreso

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:04 PM

hey,
I've got some questions:

1- why didn't you play the longer road?
2- what is the Tactics -"Swallowed whole"!?
3- why do you always advise to use SCS v21?
4- Lost crossroad or spell revisions? Why would I use both? You didn't insert an or, but am I wrong, or do they both change the spells?

1) it's unbalanced from what I've read.

2) Install Tactics "Sahaugin" component to find out.

3) I don't anymore. I did when newest version was v24 (or 23) since it was so bugged that CTDs were imminent.

4) they both change spells. Read above post for more info.



#25 Blackmamuth

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 01:48 PM

An update - call it "kreso's random ramblings about mods" :P and BW in general.

 

For newbies to BWS - before you go and use the program, be warned, that despite the (rather grand) work of all people involved in making this monstrosity work, CTDs, bugs, and various inconsistencies are rather common in BWS. So, be prepared and armed with at least minor knowledge of restoring various backup files from game, NearInfinity/DLTCEP usage, Shadowkeeper, and a ton of patience.

Second, don't simply use "recommended BWS" or "total hapiness". I don't know who "reccomends" that to be installed on your BG game (I certainly wouldn't).

Much better option is to choose the mods you want to play yourself.

 

Things to definitely skip, regardless of what you choose to play:

- Fixpack "beta" fixes. Should be labeled "beta bugs".

- Fixpack "alignment" fixes. "aligment fixes" my a**. Sorry, but isn't a fix.

- Lost Crossroads components Chant, Hypnotic Pattern, Mental Domination, Mold Touch, Cloud of Pestilence, Blade Barrier, Spacewarp, Sleep, Spook, Charm Person or Mammal, Stinking Cloud, Pyrotechics, Cloudkill, Domination, Fog Cloud, Web.

These either don't work well, don't work at all (Sleep), kill your characters instantly for no reason (Web), or cause hardcoded animations to stop playing; or worse, play constantly. Other components are relatively safe to use (and most of them work phenomenal I might add).

- The Bigg Tweaks - 3rd editon style stats. Unless you're willing to spend an afternoon removing extra unwanted saves which are applied via a spell which is applied numerous times on the same character (and it shouldn't be), I'd skip this. Don't be surprised if Viconia has a -10 save vs spells at level 9. :huh:

- Big Picture. Neutral mages casting offensive spells (this includes the very first mage you can meet in Candlekeep inn!) the moment they see you isn't good. Really. Random creeps AI should be reworked heavily (the way it works - cast a spell or launch an arrow at somebody, he will follow that arrow-slinger around until he dies.) That's very nerve-taxing. Or, revert to an older version, and edit the scripts random enemies use (I think it's BPWTA*****.bsc) and make the enemies less annoying yourself.

-AI party scripts (all)- while this is convinient, it can slow down the game a lot. Use at your own risk.

- Quayle Redone - for some odd reason, this breaks the transition to BG2. 

 

Things I wouldn't reccomend:

a) Mix and match 2 or more mods which do the same thing

Examples:

Spellpack + Spell Revisions. While this works, you better know what you're doing or you'll have serious inconsistencies in your game. SR introduces a saving throw system which is different from the original game - all Necromancy spells usually force a save vs Death, Evocations vs breath, Enchantement vs spells.

Spellpack reverts this, and makes the spells usually require a save vs spells, regardless of their school of origin. While this is perhaps a small change in the game mechanics - it's inconsistent. 

This is my current Weidu log, where I mix both SR and Spellpack, and change the relevent saving throws to SR system for consistency: (a special note goes to SpellPack's ADHW - this spell ignores Magic Damage resistance, pretty much breaking any and every AI mod there is - only MR or SI:Necromancy protect against it. I wouldn't suggest to install it if you don't know how to make it slightly more "vanilla-like".)


~WIDESCREEN/WIDESCREEN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Widescreen Mod -> for the original Infinity Engine (CHOOSE THIS!): Widescreen Mod v3.02[/spoiler]

After some fixes/tweaks (I use "vanilla" spell removals, not "AoE" which are included in the current Spell Revisions, fix Kit Revisions, SCSv28/Ascension bugs etc), this is an enjoyable game with no crashes/bugs. I use only one mod I have never played (TOBR). To nerf the SR spells I find OP use either Spellpack's versions or tone down the hefty penalty myself.

How the game looks and plays like, read and see here. :new_thumbs:

 

SCS+BP

Spikes in difficulty. SCS is rather consistent, it improves on pretty-much every creature in the game. BP doesn't, but SCS won't do everything BP doesn't. So, you can meet a mage of 13th level which will behave a la SCS (contigency, minor trigger, pre-casts buffs etc.) and a BP level 16 mage who will pre-buff with random crap (Fireshield:Red) and die the following round.

 

b) Total reworks of the game system

Example - Full Plate & Packing Steel. While this is a decent mod, one has to edit out the list where armor values are located. Using the non-modified values is pretty-much gambreaking in BWP. 

Igi's "Learn through use" - nice and all, but I'd avoid this.

 

c) One-day NPC mods.

BWS has about a hundred "normal" NPCs to choose from. Why install more? You can only have 5 in your party. 

 

d) Mods that add powerful equipment to start of BG1

Things such as TeamBG's Armor/Weapons pack, Dark Horizons. I don't want this kind of equipment in BG1. Tastes may differ, but having a stunning +2 shortsword and a +2 throwing dagger right out of Beregost on two creeps who fail their save against a simple Hold Person spell isn't my idea of having fun. 

 

e) "big mods"

Before installing those, read  about them; while this is true for all mods, "big ones" deserve more care. Then ask yourself - "Do I really need this?"

 

f) Vampire mods

Apart Valen (which is somewhat fun if you're feeling nostalgic or are new to the game) they're pretty-much nonsensical. (Hexxat included) :P

 

Hmm, the Big picture neutral mages bit is a component? or you have to disable the entire thing? Also, I just finished my 20+ Hours installing without errors at last. (Let me telll you, getting into errors like 5 times in a Row is not fun...) is it worth it to reinstall to disable Qualyle and those game breaking mods you mentioned?



#26 kreso

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

Hmm, the Big picture neutral mages bit is a component? 

No, that's in the component called "general creature processing" or something similar.

 

 

is it worth it to reinstall to disable Qualyle and those game breaking mods you mentioned?

I would. Imo, it's better to spend 5 hours re-installing before you start to play than wasting 10x more time on bugfixing when you already are playing.



#27 archlich

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:11 AM

An update - call it "kreso's random ramblings about mods" :P and BW in general.
 
- The Bigg Tweaks - 3rd editon style stats. Unless you're willing to spend an afternoon removing extra unwanted saves which are applied via a spell which is applied numerous times on the same character (and it shouldn't be), I'd skip this. Don't be surprised if Viconia has a -10 save vs spells at level 9. :huh:
 
:P

I'm particularly worried by this one, since I installed it and I am already well ahead in BG1.
Can you detail a bit better what is the problem and how it can be fixed (without reinstalling)?
Besides,is it true that these component also break saving throws progression for multi class and dual class characters?

Thanks

#28 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

 
Can you detail a bit better what is the problem and how it can be fixed (without reinstalling)?
Besides,is it true that these component also break saving throws progression for multi class and dual class characters?

Thanks

Yes I can. Tis component checks for relevant character stat (WIS/CON/DEX) and applies the relevant bonus (1-4 bonus/penalty to saving throws to spells/death/breath). Now, what happens is that that these spells which apply the bonus get applied several times to the same character, boosting his saves up the whazoo.

You can easilly check the character sheet for your party cleric or druid, and check how much bonus he has on his save vs spells. It should be +4 for an 18 WIS character. If it's higher, TBTweaks aren't working correctly.

Keep in mind that stats can change over time (i.e. aquiring the Tome of WIS), and TBTweaks use baldur.bcs, core game script, to keep up with it - this slows down the game in the long run as well (stats are being constantly checked).

It's easy enough to fix via Shadowkeeper, remove the spurrious effects from NPCs (you should see a few bonuses to the same save type, something like 

savevspellsbonus - 3

savevspellsbonus - 3

savevspellsbonus - 2

 

Now, remove all but one, and do this for all 3 types of saving throws (breath, death, and spells). I'm fairly positive TBTweaks affects enemies as well, but am not sure if they get their bonuses applied several times or not.

3rd edition strenght works, however, so that's safe to install.

 

As for multis, I don't know, I don't play them.



#29 Tash

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 03:04 AM

Nice, I see you got to enjoy Restored BG1 Sounds in your last run :new_thumbs: Now, dear Sir, which of the Fixpack "Beta" fixes would you consider "Beta bugs," as you bluntly put it?



#30 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 03:39 AM

Nice, I see you got to enjoy Restored BG1 Sounds in your last run  :new_thumbs: Now, dear Sir, which of the Fixpack "Beta" fixes would you consider "Beta bugs," as you bluntly put it?

  • Illusionary werewolves could still cause damage to characters wielding ranged weapons - not a fix, werewolves are still bugged and do damage

  • Yet more trolls needed fixing in their knock down/get up shenanigans - do they now, really? They still won't die if disabled.

  • Several traps that cast spells were ignoring magic resistance - sure this is a bug, and not a game feature?

  • Secret Word can no take down a Globe of Invulnerability, per its description - yeah, yeah. Congrats, you broke AI mods.

  • Party orientation fixed when entering Cayia's house in Brynnlaw - roflmao.....

  • The glabrezus in the ranger stronghold quest and in the Suldanessalar temple now give XP - bug or an intended feature? These glabrezus aren't a proper glabrezu anyway....

  • Elves, half-elves, and halflings now get their proper thieving racial skill bonuses - none of these were actually ever implemented in BG world, so this isn't a fix.

  • Belt of Inertial Barrier now uses the right portrait icon - really? What's the "right portrait icon for 50% Magic Damage resistance" anyway?

  • Root of the Problem now has a price - feature or a bug? Did any ex BG2 developer actually say such a thing? 

  • Major revisions and fixes to wepaons with bonuses vs. X - Fixpack "core" breaks each such item already, there's no need to break them even further. +1/+4 vs Giantkin wasn't considered a +4 weapon in vanilla, with Fixpack you have +4 weapons everywhere. Cool story, but this isn't a fix.

....to name a few. Of course, Fixpack itself has much more bugs than proclaimed "beta" fixes. I'll probably write on which parts should a player "disable" in  the .tp2 to make his game more true to vanilla (i.e. better).

 

P.S.

"Restored BG1 sounds" is arguably the best "mood mod" there is. :clap:



#31 Blackmamuth

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:34 AM

[quote name="kreso" post="570477" timestamp="1405424364"]



Hmm, the Big picture neutral mages bit is a component? [/quote]No, that's in the component called "general creature processing" or something similar.
 
 [quote name="Blackmamuth" post="570459" timestamp="1405374496"]
is it worth it to reinstall to disable Qualyle and those game breaking mods you mentioned?[/quote]I would. Imo, it's better to spend 5 hours re-installing before you start to play than wasting 10x more time on bugfixing when you already are playing.
 [/quote] 
It's Generic Encounters? I can't find any general creature processing component anywhere...

EDIT: Nevermind, Found it. By the way, I've noticed an option to import installation selection by importing Weidu logs, does it work? are any good Weidu Selections anywhere?

Edited by Blackmamuth, 15 July 2014 - 04:43 AM.


#32 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:41 AM

are any good Weido Selections anywhere?

I don't know.



#33 Blackmamuth

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:49 AM

are any good Weido Selections anywhere?

I don't know.

 

Hmm, I'll start another install with some of your suggestions.

 

I've disabled Item revisions and Spell Revisions, To check if it still Crashes. last time the installation only hanged with the latest Worldmap and with NPC not having my language translation. (Uldar and Malthis), also got a crash with Wizard rebalancing component, and enemies break their Weapons BGT component.

 

Let's see If this work. If I can Avoid Spell revisions, I'll avoid it. Item revisions Is definitely a goner. It makes little sense of massively nerfing vanilla Good items, when mods give OP equipment by the wazoo...



#34 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:22 AM

NPC not having my language translation. (Uldar and Malthis), also got a crash with Wizard rebalancing component, and enemies break their Weapons BGT component.

 

Let's see If this work. If I can Avoid Spell revisions, I'll avoid it. Item revisions Is definitely a goner. It makes little sense of massively nerfing vanilla Good items, when mods give OP equipment by the wazoo...

Some toughts on this:

Wizard Slayer Rebalancing won't break your game, I'm sure of it, aVenger's mods are top-quality work so no need to fear there.

You don't need Spell Revisions if you don't want to, I don't even know why this is in "reccomended" setup. I do love it, use it, and can't really force myself to play w/o it, but it's a much harsher system than vanilla.

Item Revisions - again, imo very nice, but in a BWS with a huge ammount of extra items I'd vote aginst it's use; for the same reasons you mentioned. Note that one BG1 mod (I honestly don't know which one) gives Gnolls at Gnoll Stronghold Surys'  Halberd. While this is a "regular" +2 halberd in vanilla, with IR it's a stunning weapon. So now you have 50 gnolls wielding weapon that stuns you if you fail your save :ROFL:

Oh, and I wouldn't exactly say "IR massively nerfs good items"; it just makes it harder to choose which to use.

What you can safely install, and I'd definitely reccomend, is IR "weapon changes" component. That's a patching-type tweak which changes base properties of weapons (damage dice, speed etc.) and it works witout actually changing the items' properties (i.e. Spider's Bane will still grant Free Action, but will no longer do 1D10+2 damage, but 2D6+2 instead.)



#35 The Imp

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:50 AM

I don't even know why this is in "reccomended" setup. I do love it, use it, and can't really force myself to play w/o it, but it's a much harsher system than vanilla.

If you haven't figured it out already, I'll say again what I have read, the "Recommended" compilation is just one persons view of the mods... it's not general consensus of all the teams members. But you can be assured that that compilation doesn't have very many game breaking bugs.
This topics title actually would hit that you would make (another) one.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#36 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:07 AM

Things to definitely skip, regardless of what you choose to play:
- Fixpack "beta" fixes. Should be labeled "beta bugs".
- Fixpack "alignment" fixes. "aligment fixes" my a**. Sorry, but isn't a fix.

 

Care to thorough explanation?

You can read few posts above about "beta fixes".

Alignment fixes aren't fixes. They are arbitrary tweaks, and should be labeled as such.

Then go ahead and install if you like, but at very least they should be labeled as "tweaks", because claiming these are fixes is simply not true.

When you have a mismatch in-between the spell description/duration, you can fix it an call it a fix (even so, I could name at least a few decent screw-ups Fixpack will do to your game, including my all-time favourite "fix" to Ironskins with a casting time of 1 round; breaking druids (both PC and AI) completely. Not to forget  that it should be a "combat protection" and not a "spell protection" - it doesn't protect you against spells... :doh:  ). 

When you try to "fix" alignements, things aren't as black and white. 

- more Fixpack errors you can find at G3 site, including  "archers in ankheg plate", "Soul Reaver 0 duration THAC0 drain" etc.

Fixpack is good, needed and all, but I wouldn't just install it w/o modifying it's .tp2 file. Nor would I reccomend anyone to do so.



#37 deaderinred

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:00 AM

which ever mod makes the yuat-ti mage summon beholders and tanar-ri at a level 9 party in whatshisface's den, when you go to rescue haer-dalis should probably be skipped. i think its a bug but i can't figure out which mod is doing it and i am now worried that when i get to nalia's keep that it is going to be pure demon city. (running atweaks fiend too so its double the fun!)


Edited by deaderinred, 15 July 2014 - 11:01 AM.


#38 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:24 AM

which ever mod makes the yuat-ti mage summon beholders and tanar-ri at a level 9 party in whatshisface's den, when you go to rescue haer-dalis should probably be skipped. i think its a bug but i can't figure out which mod is doing it and i am now worried that when i get to nalia's keep that it is going to be pure demon city. (running atweaks fiend too so its double the fun!)

I don't think that's a bug, sounds more like a feature of "Improved summons" mod.



#39 The Imp

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:32 AM

which ever mod makes the yuat-ti mage summon beholders and tanar-ri at a level 9 party in whatshisface's den, when you go to rescue haer-dalis should probably be skipped. i think its a bug but i can't figure out which mod is doing it and i am now worried that when i get to nalia's keep that it is going to be pure demon city. (running atweaks fiend too so its double the fun!)

I don't think that's a bug, sounds more like a feature of "Improved summons" mod.

More likely is that the yuat-ti mage just has a few extra levels on his belt and SCS just tweaks it a bit to have a correct spell allocations.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#40 kreso

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:56 AM

which ever mod makes the yuat-ti mage summon beholders and tanar-ri at a level 9 party in whatshisface's den, when you go to rescue haer-dalis should probably be skipped. i think its a bug but i can't figure out which mod is doing it and i am now worried that when i get to nalia's keep that it is going to be pure demon city. (running atweaks fiend too so its double the fun!)

I don't think that's a bug, sounds more like a feature of "Improved summons" mod.

More likely is that the yuat-ti mage just has a few extra levels on his belt and SCS just tweaks it a bit to have a correct spell allocations.

@deaderinred - post your Weidu log if you want. From what I know, the only way to have Yuan-ti summon beholders is "Improved summons" mod, regardless of their level.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: reccomended, bws