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Sorcerer/Monk Subclass - is it even possible?


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#1 -Guest-

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 01:31 PM

Hey there!

 

I'm not sure if it is right place to ask about it so I'm sorry if I'm in wrong.

To be short I wanted to make multi class Sorcerer/Monk using this tool:
http://www.shsforums...d-experimental/

but turns out it isn't compatibility with WoBG mod and hasn't option to mix these classes at all.

 

So, I started thinking about subclass for sorcerer with ALL Monk's profits and high level skills (I'm playing with rule 50 mod - it's component of WoBG). Basically I wanted to get level 50 with ALL Sorcerer and Monk skills and abilities. Of course this class would be so overpowered that there is no sense to play as this class at all, so I have some nerfs for better balance. I know, this is useless and not very balanced at all but it's only for my private use so you know...

 

Well, then here we go:

1. -2 to all stats.

2. Can't use ANY weapon.

3. Can use armor, but only cloths.

4. Spells Table and all profits for monk are moved 2 levels up (I mean that we obtain more spells 2 levels later and we get e.g. Poison Resistance no on level 11th, but 13th) but abilities which are getting since beggining to very end like -1 KP per 2 levels stay intact.

5. Can't summon the familiar.

6. Can't use Rogue abilities like Monk (Silent Walk and etc.).

 

Is it possible to make such subclass? And if yes - how? DLTCEP? I'm not sure if I can handle it...

 

Pls help me, I'm playing (like I said) with World of Baldur's Gate Mega mod for BG2

Many thx in any case.

 



#2 The Imp

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:35 PM

2. Can't use ANY weapon.

3. Can use armor, but only cloths.

The 2. is impossile to apply. And the third is just the sorcerer class armor restriction, if you add a 't before the armor. As technically the robes are special set class available to casters.

 

The others, the 1 and 6 are doable. You would need to choose the sorcerer as the prinary class and so you can't put the 4 there, you can do it so that the monk class benefits hit the character at level 3 and be 2 levels late, but not the sorcerers.

 

As the reason why the MMKBM doesn't feature sorcerer monk dual option or anything close to that is that the Monk and Sorcerer classes are independent classes, they are not kits. Meaning as that as you can't dual to or from to the or have multiclasses of them, the game won't allow you to build such without a crash.

Now the what I am suggesting that can be done, is fake build a Sorcerer kit in the regular BG2, and actually build a Sorcerer kit in the BG2EE game, so that it gains the same benefits that a monk would get naturally, which just needs a kit building skill ... and I can do most of that. I just need the exact benefit table list, on top of the natural Sorcerer skill set that can't be changed.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#3 -Guest-

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:07 AM

I know why it isn't possible in MMKBM. Sorcerer/Monk/Barb are very fucked up in BG...

 

For this subclass minimal stats should be diffrent. STR/AGI/END should be set on minimal 6-8. Imo it's only reasonable set. But maybe I'm in wrong...

 

If u can do it I'll appreciate it. Only base if u don't want to do everything. Probably I can modify the rest by myself.



#4 The Imp

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:57 AM

For this subclass minimal stats should be diffrent. STR/AGI/END should be set on minimal 6-8. Imo it's only reasonable set. But maybe I'm in wrong...

I don't think you know what you are saying... cause the game has character based minimal stat rule, that makes the pregenerated character to have at least 75 on their total score of the stats, so: STR + AGI + END + WIS + INT + CHA =< 75 and it can be about 90 as a maximum.

So the minimal stats don't matter at all, it's the maximum that do most of the job. And the fact that the CHA being at 17 can be replaced by hiring Imoen with a character that has CHA at 3, while using her as the innitial speaker, Keldorn and other NPCs, and you get 14 stat points to place else where, and later having the ring of human influence does the same thing. A lot of other similar things are present in the game... yes, you can also do the paladin trick where you have to have high CHA, but that's another matter.

 

I'll see when I can get to my primary computer... as my files are there.

 

Technically the Barbarian is a special class that's very similar like the Fighter class, so much so that it's actually easy to make the Barbarian to be dual-able... but that involves a little trickery, as the character is not actually a "Barbarian" classed character anymore, just kitted one. As in, it's a recreation of the class. Similar like the Sorcerer/Monk kit will be in the reqular BG2's, as I make it Fighter kitted and classed character at start but the game that has a spell effect put to it, which then changes to a Sorcerer with a non standard kit that allows him to gain the Monks powers.
In BGEE's I can just allow the player to select the Sorcerer Kit.

 

Ouh, we need a name for the kit, and yes, Arcane Fist kit name is taken. It's description could look something like this:

 

Kit X:

Description...


ADVANTAGES:

- Spell Casting;

  Doesn't need to memorize spells
  Spells chosen/learned at level-up (not from scrolls)
- Gains Unarmed Striking attack at level 2. Stats and so forth.

- Gains one use of Lay On Hands at level 1, heals +2 hitpoints per level.

- Magic resistance and immunities at higher levels.

- Armor class lowers with at each x level upto level 20.

DISADVANTAGES:
- 2 to all stats.

- Gains no profficiencies in any weapon or style.

- Is restricted to Sorcerer equipment restrictions.

- Has no rogue skills.

 

Of  course these can be adjusted and they probably need more... but this is just a pre-preparation, to show you some of the info that I kinda need from you.


Edited by The Imp, 06 April 2014 - 04:33 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#5 -Guest-

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 04:24 AM

Maybe Dragon Fist then? Or simply Dragon Monk/Warrior? Eventually Dragonborn, but u know...



#6 The Imp

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 05:29 AM

Maybe Dragon Fist then? Or simply Dragon Monk/Warrior? Eventually Dragonborn, but u know...
Well, I don't know, the game has multiple Dragon... Dragonclaw, mutilple Dragon Disciple kits, as well as other warrior, fighter and so forth characters.
Dragon Monk doesn't exactly describe the character... well to me. And Dragonborn would indicate the mother being actual dragon.
Yes, I already came up with one too... Gray Dragon. Made up description:
 
A Gray Dragon is a magical practisioner that has dedicates his whole life to pursue that which they perseve as perfect being, a true dragon. When they can, they use magic to overwhelm most of their opponents, what truly makes the Gray Dragons unique is their ability to go unarmed and unarmored againts a group of close combat fighters and emmerge victorious, while using their magic as the armor and their weapons.

PS; I edited the above message a lots, so you might wish to look it again, if you didn't see it the whole thing, as well as this message..

Edited by The Imp, 06 April 2014 - 06:31 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:27 AM

Now when I see how many profits I'll gain only from Monk (Poison Res, Speed and etc.) I think that it will be very overpowered class but... Who cares? It's just 4fun. I can always edit it. For now I just want to play Sorcerer combined with Monk (all profits and High level skills).

 

Thx man, u r really helpful guy. It will be funny to play with him. And I owe u one.



#8 -Guest-

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:47 AM

I know that I have no right to ask but how it's going? Any progress?

 



#9 The Imp

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

I hope I can get you the preliminary files in a day or two(tomorrow, or the next day)... we'll see.
Ouh, and one last question, will the character be starting at level 1, or 7 ? Just want to make sure...

Edited by The Imp, 08 April 2014 - 11:42 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#10 -Guest-

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 09:33 AM

From level 1. WoBG has implemented BGT. Btw to be honest imo this is the best Megamod for BG ever. 



#11 The Imp

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:26 AM

I give up for today... I have everything else kinda set up ... except the monks fists... they are hard coded weapons for the class. I need to recreate them using other means... hopefully I get that out tomorrow.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#12 -Guest-

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:57 PM

Thx man. If there is any way how can I repay you just tell me. I'll do my best.



#13 -Guest-

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:01 AM

I almost forgot - can u give him K6 HP per lvl?



#14 The Imp

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:46 AM

I almost forgot - can u give him K6 HP per lvl?

Well, you probably mean 1d6... and the answer is not really... in a non EE game, but it's kinda the same if I just give him the 1d4+2(+con bonus) hps per level with the first 10 or so levels. I am not going to give him 1006, nor 6000 HPs. :devil: Yep, a dumb joke.
 

Small .tp2 progress thingy:

Spoiler


Edited by The Imp, 11 April 2014 - 07:22 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#15 -Guest-

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 05:54 AM

Yes, yes... I typed it in my language xD Sounds good to me.



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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:58 PM

Very nice progress. Now u will add the rest of Monk's bonuses and skills like Quivering Palm and Stunning Blow, right? And one question - how will u implemented HLA? Because I'm going to play with modified HLA table - Monk and Sorcerer has diffrent skills than in Vanilla version and I'm not sure if it will works. U r just adding using table in kit, no every skill separately, right? Or should I send u correct table to edit it?

PS: I'm not sure if THAC0 +50 is right value...

 



#17 The Imp

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 01:51 PM

And one question - how will u implemented HLA? Because I'm going to play with modified HLA table - Monk and Sorcerer has diffrent skills than in Vanilla version and I'm not sure if it will works. U r just adding using table in kit, no every skill separately, right? Or should I send u correct table to edit it?
If you wish a customized skill set up, you would do best to send the skill file. In the monk and sorcerer cross, is should be the "lumo0.2da" and "luma0.2da" files. That's the plan at least.
Very nice progress. Now u will add the rest of Monk's bonuses and skills like Quivering Palm and Stunning Blow, right?

PS: I'm not sure if THAC0 +50 is right value..
Well, this is a special move (with 1 attack per round an all). I plan to set a more realistic thac0 values for the fist attacks too, so not to worry. Hey yeah, you might wish to also send the thaco.2da file.
And yeah, the character will have stunning blows too and quivering palm, but at this early stage, the monk kit is from the vanilla... so editing it will be a little ... say left at your hands. I will do as you like of course, but as I don't have your setup, I can only work with the info you give me. I don't have the "World of Baldur's Gate" so to speak.

Yep, the easiest way for you to "send" me the .2da files, is to open them with Near Infinity or DLTCEP from the game, and save/extract them to a different folder, from which you can then open them with Notepad, and then copy paste the text in them to a post hopefully in the spoilers, like this:
xxx.2da:
[spoiler]-text-[/spoiler]
Which makes this:
xxx.2da:
Spoiler

4. Spells Table and all profits for monk are moved 2 levels up (I mean that we obtain more spells 2 levels later and we get e.g. Poison Resistance no on level 11th, but 13th) but abilities which are getting since beggining to very end like -1 KP per 2 levels stay intact.
What's the KP -1 ? I think it's might be Armor Class... but I am not sure., so.

Edited by The Imp, 11 April 2014 - 02:25 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#18 -Guest-

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 03:54 AM

Yeah, I did the same mistake as before. I used to much shortcuts in my language that I didn't notice that they are diffrent than in English.

lumo0.2da
Spoiler


luma2.2da
Spoiler


thac0.2da
Spoiler


Thac0 is for 50 levels.

#19 The Imp

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Posted 12 April 2014 - 05:11 AM

There's a small thing with the combining of the Sorcerer and Monks HLA three, you might need to rid off 3 of them, most likely at least, as the display should only be able to show you 24 of them, and there is no going around that in the vanilla game. I haven't had the ToBEx installed in a long while so this might have changed by it, but that might still be the case.

Also there's a nice little ... the kitted Sorcerer class will only get it's spells during it's leveling to level 2, so it will be missing a spell or two, and you can't cast a thing on level 1. I have given a bonus of the Magic Missile spell on level 2 as a small compensation, but that's still a quite a loose, at the early start, especially without the melee skills. :devil:

Premuminary v0.80, meaning without the weapons integrated, or the HPs.


Edited by The Imp, 12 April 2014 - 06:51 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


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Posted 12 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

So. There are few bugs... Sorry for informing about this.
1. Fists works like sorc fist. No bonus to dmg, number of attacks or thac0.
2. No HLA at all. Maybe it's because that he has only 25 squares for it in game like u said but imo there should be something anyway.
3. Idk if it's bug or not but AC bonus doesn't exist too. And same situation with thac0 table - on 50th level he has 13 base thac0. I'm not sure but monk has 0, right? And he has fists. But maybe u decided to give him Sorc table.

The rest seems to be fine - spells and the rest of bonuses works (or at least I didn't notice anything unusual).