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[Help Wanted] Werewolf Prog. Table Revision.


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#1 Tash

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 06:59 PM

Initially, I just wanted to restore proper werewolf soundsets for my audio mod. Then I looked at the files and decided to give this a go. Could you help me sort it all out? I've got all the files ready to WeiDU and just require some serious balancing of the tentative progression table (attached below).
 
All right. So, first of all, the soundsets are now restored to werewolves (both Shapeshifter and enemy monsters). If you have the appropriate component of TobEx installed, you'll get to hear two additional attack sounds. Now when you shapeshift, the werewolf lets out a terrifying howl (different sounds for the two variants). Hopefully, your wolfman wont sound like a snarling Velociraptor <_<
 
And now for the revision part. This isn't your powergamer SCS-ready, Tactics-supported, Insane-only, Solo-cherished rebalancing mod. There are other -- faster, better, stronger -- mods out there that do the job. What this is, is an attempt to make the werewolf forms scalable from Lvl 1 and somewhat more suitable for different parts of the trilogy. Frankly, this is intended for casual playthroughs without mindless grinding and lagfest difficulty mods.
 
I realize Druids are extremely hard to balance, and instead of spending a week on constant changes and additions to the revision table, I'd rather ask you guys for suggestions. Now, I haven't played full ToB for a while, so I got a feeling that that part of the table is imbalanced as Hel forsaken by Odin ^_^
 
I looked again at all the available items in different parts of the trilogy, compared the default classes vs. exp, and came up with the following table. Yes, there's some nerfing involved, some buffing here and there, and some powergamers people will just look at the resistances and be like :o -> "No." That's fine, too. If you want to tear this apart, go ahead. Any suggestions are welcome, as I keep on making changes each time I look at this table :rolleyes:
 

** EDIT ** Currently working on a better table...


Edited by Tash, 07 November 2015 - 02:04 PM.


#2 Tash

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 10:14 PM

Here's a little update: version 1 of something I'm currently working on. Not exactly BG style :crying:. What do you think?

 

[attachment=27448:doll_parts_4.png]


Edited by Tash, 30 July 2014 - 03:41 PM.


#3 Ulb

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

That's a nice paperdoll graphic.

 

The Bg original looked more like.. well it didn't really look like anything other than some messy brown pixel-mesh.

Yours is definitely an improvement! :)



#4 Tash

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

It was about time someone turned this mush of pixels into muscle ^_^ I tried to keep the color scheme. I've also fixed stand/idle animation cycle to be less stuttery.

 

For those who never bothered with Shapeshifters, here's what you get in the original. Yup.

 

[attachment=27452:doll_v1_comp.png]


Edited by Tash, 30 July 2014 - 03:42 PM.


#5 Tash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 06:03 PM

Man, it's so hard to keep these paperdolls in good quality and colors. Try as I might, they always lose detail and proper brightness-contrast ratio.

 

Anyways, here's an alternate Werewolf paperdoll. Slightly more in line with BG2 style, so I hope you'll like it. This beastly one actually boasts a tail!


Edited by Tash, 29 August 2014 - 12:58 PM.


#6 The Imp

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 10:39 PM

Anyways, here's an alternate Werewolf paperdoll. Slightly more in line with BG2 style, so I hope you'll like it. This beastly one actually boasts a tail!
Looking good, but is there a chance to make the shadow a little darker ?
Ouh, but there's really no need to come armed with all those knives if we are just to hug each others. :D

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#7 Ulb

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 03:15 AM

That one looks even better.

It could maybe use a little blurring on its fur texture, to make it look less 'pixel-art'.

 

 

Looking good, but is there a chance to make the shadow a little darker ?

 

I don't think so.

Tash's version is using a proper 'shadow' palette entry while the original werewolf in his screen-shot seems to simply use black color.



#8 Tash

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 04:02 AM

I've tried different methods of getting a nice-looking hand-drawn image squashed into a blob of brown pixels, and none of them satisfy me ^_^. I can't find a good compromise, so that colors are nice but not over-bright. Everything seem to look brighter in-game, though. So, I decided to make the darker tones more apparent, as if the Werewolf is lurking in the shadows, or perhaps prowling at night.

 

I'm getting these screens at 800x600, without resizing this time; I've no idea how these look on your 1080p monitors, but let me know if you need it resized to take a gander.

 

Personally, I don't like super-black shadows in all of the original paperdolls; they blend with feet and armor too much. Thankfully, this is the easiest thing to adjust and you don't even have to open an image editor. But here's an attempt to meet you half-way:

 

Edit: I've uploaded a version with different shadow position. Could be darker,sure, but maybe the change of direction is better? Ah, also fixed some pixels that blended with shadow index.

 

Now that I look at them in full glory, they look kinda cartoonish, if not Japanese in style. Perhaps too much for BG, so it might take a while to adjust.


Edited by Tash, 09 July 2014 - 04:25 AM.


#9 Tash

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 05:41 PM

My latest attempt, after a break. Blurred the texture only slightly, changed levels a bit, and redesigned the shadows. You can choose between three variants.

 

[attachment=27461:shad_compare.png]


Edited by Tash, 02 November 2014 - 11:00 AM.


#10 -TDouglas-

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 06:06 PM

I'd say you're doing great work overall :) If you're shooting for realism tho, I'd change the mouth (it's way too human in its current form ... maybe make it a bit more "V" shaped to suggest a muzzle) and the feet (they look too human ... have less of the foot actually touching the ground). Hate to nitpick (and that's exactly what this is), as your art is WAY better than the original even now :)

Thanks for the great work!

#11 Tash

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Posted 14 July 2014 - 10:15 AM

If you're shooting for realism tho, I'd change the mouth (it's way too human in its current form ... maybe make it a bit more "V" shaped to suggest a muzzle) and the feet (they look too human ... have less of the foot actually touching the ground).

 

Thanks, TDouglas :)

 

I agree that it doesn't look as good as I originally intended; that's because I squashed a nice and detailed GIMP'd image into a crappy paperdoll format. I tried different methods, but none of them help much in the image interpolation. I'll probably have to edit out the fangs, so that they don't blend in with the teeth and form a kind of a wide mouth. And I'll see what I can do with the feet; maybe it's just a matter of shadows?

 

Here's one from my workroom in bigger scale, so you can compare:

 

Final_ver_6_zps84a852f1.png

 

I'm also working on my revised progression table. I attached an updated version to the first post, but it's still missing the ToB part (Lvl. 15+).

 

In my current BGT playthrough as a Shapeshifter, nothing can stop my CHAR and Kagain stocked up on potions. Man, potions basically nullify any physical stats revision. I squint when I see somebody complaining about BG1 NPCs' "crapacious" stats; seriously, potions! Unless you're a newcomer to BG and think you can take on wolves at Lvl. 1 wearing a chainmail, you'll mostly have something like 19/18/18 for the tougher battles. Why? Potions! Need elemental resistance? Potions. Need magic resistance? Potions. Need stats? Potions. Health? Lots and lots of potions. Need info? Stout.

 

Yeah... So what I did, I carefully compared Fighter and Druid Lvl. progression and decided that the BG1 Werewolf form should be mostly just slightly behind pure Fighter in HP, THAC0 and AC. At some points you'll be higher Lvl., but still have very comparable stats. We're talking base stats; Fighters still have access to better equipment that gives them more bonuses, and this should be considered a reward to Fighters for finding such items.

 

Well, I don't know <_< It's a daunting task, and I'll have to play through the entire saga before I come up with anything decent enough.



#12 Tash

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

OK, here's yet another attempt. I edited the mouth, so that it's more wolfish rather than apish; weird-looking fangs are now gone.

 

I'm working with my calibrated CRT, so obviously I've no idea how these look like on your monitors. Could you help me out a bit? Should I make it darker/lighter? More reds? Generally speaking, images may appear brighter in-game when viewed in the original BG2, and more saturated in BGEE.

 

I also created a new paws BAM. I prefer these to the default bear ones.


Edited by Tash, 07 November 2015 - 02:03 PM.


#13 Tash

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 11:15 AM

Would anyone be interested in testing and/or possibly adopting the following into their mod?

 

- New paperdoll

- New paws icon

- Restored BG1 (+Modified) soundset

- Smoother stand-idle animation cycle

 

It's probably for BG2 only; I'm not really sure if like the way BGEE brightens and saturates these images. I'd have to create separate bams for it. My custom soundset works without TobEx, but if you want to hear two additional attack sounds, it has to be installed.

 

Alternatively, I can simply release a mini-mod for the few people interested in seeing this in their playthrough. No progression table yet.


Edited by Tash, 03 November 2014 - 06:05 AM.