1190 replies to this topic

[jastey]

Thank you for removing the problematic content. (The points above with "I don't mind"s meant I won't complain if you want to leave them in.)

I had the Beregost encounter already long before RE expanded into BG1

Bjornin encounter was in bgqe before I moved it into bg1re, for like the last 7 years.
 

 This makes some other options obsolete in the same way as any other romance conflicts in the game. In many cases, the consequence is one of the NPCs leaving.

Which does mean that if the PC does not have an intimate relationship with Sandrah (meaning that if, despite all the efforts in the mod, the player does not feel like committing his/her PC to her) Sandrah will leave?* I call that a very restrictive story line. What is the objective reason for her leaving, despite your lack of motivation to write romance conflicts? I have full sympathy for lack of motivation to provide every and all possibilities, don't get me wrong. I just don't see how it fits to the character you gave ger: "I will be your friend, because you need me. - Hey, you want to have an exclusive relation with another NPC? I'm gone."

 

*At least I hope you are talking about Sandrah leaving. Because making other mod NPCs leave over your mod NPC without giving the player the choice is something that violates the Don'ts of modding, as you already noticed.

[Roxanne]

Thank you for removing the problematic content. (The points above with "I don't mind"s meant I won't complain if you want to leave them in.)

I had the Beregost encounter already long before RE expanded into BG1

Bjornin encounter was in bgqe before I moved it into bg1re, for like the last 7 years.
 

 This makes some other options obsolete in the same way as any other romance conflicts in the game. In many cases, the consequence is one of the NPCs leaving.

Which does mean that if the PC does not have an intimate relationship with Sandrah (meaning that if, despite all the efforts in the mod, the player does not feel like committing his/her PC to her) Sandrah will leave?* I call that a very restrictive story line. What is the objective reason for her leaving, despite your lack of motivation to write romance conflicts? I have full sympathy for lack of motivation to provide every and all possibilities, don't get me wrong. I just don't see how it fits to the character you gave ger: "I will be your friend, because you need me. - Hey, you want to have an exclusive relation with another NPC? I'm gone."

 

*At least I hope you are talking about Sandrah leaving. Because making other mod NPCs leave over your mod NPC without giving the player the choice is something that violates the Don'ts of modding, as you already noticed.

This is not the point here at all - a female PC chosing to spent the rest of her life at the side of the Ajantis who has not changed his view through all of the time spent in the party is not compliant with the further adventures waiting in Sandrah. This is not about exclusive relationship or similar, this is about incompatible storylines. The wife of the paladin will not do the things happening in ToB and RtF at Sandrah's side, i.e she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs, she leaves to find the right one.

[Samriel]

This is not the point here at all - a female PC chosing to spent the rest of her life at the side of the Ajantis who has not changed his view through all of the time spent in the party is not compliant with the further adventures waiting in Sandrah. This is not about exclusive relationship or similar, this is about incompatible storylines. The wife of the paladin will not do the things happening in ToB and RtF at Sandrah's side, i.e she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs, she leaves to find the right one.

What if said paladin allowed his wife to keep accompanying Sandrah on her quest(s) as he believes that assisting Sandrah's cause will help the world as a whole?

 

Also didn't Sandrah chose to accompany the PC mainly to see whether he/she was good or evil and such whether to help him or stop him? Maybe also whether the PC was connected to her mom?

 

I for one I'm ALL for Sandrah to leave due to falling for the PC at first sight or/and not willing to share his/her heart with another even if her or the PC have some casual sex with other characters with no real love in those cases.

 

Or maybe her acting particularly possessive if their relationship/her love meter build up by the PC is very high.

Edited by Samriel, 24 January 2016 - 06:16 AM.

[Roxanne]

This is not the point here at all - a female PC chosing to spent the rest of her life at the side of the Ajantis who has not changed his view through all of the time spent in the party is not compliant with the further adventures waiting in Sandrah. This is not about exclusive relationship or similar, this is about incompatible storylines. The wife of the paladin will not do the things happening in ToB and RtF at Sandrah's side, i.e she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs, she leaves to find the right one.

What if said paladin allowed his wife to keep accompanying Sandrah on her quest(s) as he believes that assisting Sandrah's cause will help the world as a whole?

 

Also didn't Sandrah chose to accompany the PC mainly to see whether he/she was good or evil and such whether to help him or stop him? Maybe also whether the PC was connected to her mom?

 

I for one I'm ALL for Sandrah to leave due to falling for the PC at first sight or/and not willing to share his/her heart with another even if her or the PC have some casual sex with other characters with no real love in those cases.

 

Or maybe her acting particularly possessive if their relationship/her love meter build up by the PC is very high.

Sandrah among all NPCs is maybe one of the most liberal already.

There are some who not even join you when you are evil or not the right race or whatever. Others leave when you side with Bodhi or run the thieves guild or due to some other decisions. Unless you tweak the game, NPCs leave if your reputation is too low or too high. Some leave after a romance conflict. This is nothing special related to Sandrah only.

My worst mistake was to make her most flexible and even tried to adjust her to a number of situations to allow most decisions that other NPCs would not accept. The the special case of Ajantis would have required some crossmod to adjust both sides to each other's need - this is now taken out, so the situation is as it was before. The PC makes a decision and bears the consequences.

[Samriel]

 

Sandrah among all NPCs is maybe one of the most liberal already.

There are some who not even join you when you are evil or not the right race or whatever. Others leave when you side with Bodhi or run the thieves guild or due to some other decisions. Unless you tweak the game, NPCs leave if your reputation is too low or too high. Some leave after a romance conflict. This is nothing special related to Sandrah only.

My worst mistake was to make her most flexible and even tried to adjust her to a number of situations to allow most decisions that other NPCs would not accept. The the special case of Ajantis would have required some crossmod to adjust both sides to each other's need - this is now taken out, so the situation is as it was before. The PC makes a decision and bears the consequences.

Well, even the most open minded folks have their limits.

 

And having limits plus flaws makes people more interesting.

 

So I would hardly mind if Sandrah wasn't the most tolerant in any and all instances even when those instances are not a mere conflict of a "good" approach and "evil" approach.

 

Her becoming less tolerant or more depending on how the PC influences her through dialogues would be cool too. As would be by affecting her attitude to relationships in different ways.

 

Always a fan of character development for better or worse.

Edited by Samriel, 24 January 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[Roxanne]

 

Sandrah among all NPCs is maybe one of the most liberal already.

There are some who not even join you when you are evil or not the right race or whatever. Others leave when you side with Bodhi or run the thieves guild or due to some other decisions. Unless you tweak the game, NPCs leave if your reputation is too low or too high. Some leave after a romance conflict. This is nothing special related to Sandrah only.

My worst mistake was to make her most flexible and even tried to adjust her to a number of situations to allow most decisions that other NPCs would not accept. The the special case of Ajantis would have required some crossmod to adjust both sides to each other's need - this is now taken out, so the situation is as it was before. The PC makes a decision and bears the consequences.

Well, even the most open minded folks have their limits.

 

And having limits plus flaws makes people more interesting.

 

So I would hardly mind if Sandrah wasn't the most tolerant in any and all instances even when those instances are not a mere conflict of a "good" approach and "evil" approach.

 

Her becoming less tolerant or more depending on how the PC influences her through dialogues would be cool too. As would be by affecting her attitude to relationships in different ways.

 

Always a fan of character development for better or worse.

Sandrah changes a lot during her travels and adventures with the Bhaalspawn - whether is is for better or worse is subject to your own values - she will be different, like we all become with age and experience and maturity. Much of that change is due to the circumstances the PC and his group are in, so I try to avoid any judgement about good or bad at that point. She counsels the PC to accept the thief guild - not to make money, but to control part of the criminals of Amn and be able to steer those away from murder and slave trade and into some more Robin Hood-like direction. This is evil if you ask a Helmite or practical if you ask Mystra.

[Samriel]

Sandrah changes a lot during her travels and adventures with the Bhaalspawn - whether is is for better or worse is subject to your own values - she will be different, like we all become with age and experience and maturity. Much of that change is due to the circumstances the PC and his group are in, so I try to avoid any judgement about good or bad at that point. She counsels the PC to accept the thief guild - not to make money, but to control part of the criminals of Amn and be able to steer those away from murder and slave trade and into some more Robin Hood-like direction. This is evil if you ask a Helmite or practical if you ask Mystra.

Yeah, though I was wondering if there is(or planned) some character development for Sandrah that depends not just how far their journey is(like BG1, BG2, ToB or RtF) but what dialogue options were chosen in dialogues and how certain quests were handled as to change the direction Sandrah character takes.

 

That without counting the romantic/friendship closeness...though even there it would be interesting if Sandrah could be influenced into whether to be more possessive of the PC, more into pure romance, keep her initial approach to relationships or become even less "restrained"(maybe even into having more than one husband??).

[Roxanne]

Sandrah changes a lot during her travels and adventures with the Bhaalspawn - whether is is for better or worse is subject to your own values - she will be different, like we all become with age and experience and maturity. Much of that change is due to the circumstances the PC and his group are in, so I try to avoid any judgement about good or bad at that point. She counsels the PC to accept the thief guild - not to make money, but to control part of the criminals of Amn and be able to steer those away from murder and slave trade and into some more Robin Hood-like direction. This is evil if you ask a Helmite or practical if you ask Mystra.

Yeah, though I was wondering if there is(or planned) some character development for Sandrah that depends not just how far their journey is(like BG1, BG2, ToB or RtF) but what dialogue options were chosen in dialogues and how certain quests were handled as to change the direction Sandrah character takes.

 

That without counting the romantic/friendship closeness...though even there it would be interesting if Sandrah could be influenced into whether to be more possessive of the PC, more into pure romance, keep her initial approach to relationships or become even less "restrained"(maybe even into having more than one husband??).

After all - the game is played and decided by the PC (alias yourself). You chose your NPCs and you lead them on your way >>> you are responsible for the result.

[Samriel]

After all - the game is played and decided by the PC (alias yourself). You chose your NPCs and you lead them on your way >>> you are responsible for the result.

Yeah, it is nice when both the plot the characters that accompany the PC can be heavily influenced by our decisions.

 

Sandrah becoming more of a possessive type or even more of a flirt being the result of how the PC treated her or/and how he influenced her beliefs during conversations and/or quests would be another consequence to live with.

 

Though it is nice to see the growth she undergoes via the main quest it would be interesting if she could change due to other factors as well.

[jastey]

 The wife of the paladin will not do the things happening in ToB and RtF at Sandrah's side

I would be intrigued what Sandrah expects from the PC and how it wouldn't fit with a PC that made it clear to Ajantis that she will not stop travelling, but to be honest I don't care. You obviously made up your mind.
 

, i.e she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs, she leaves to find the right one.

Actually I don't understand: after ToB, there is no Bhaalspawn. They are either dead, or their Bhaal essence removed (PC, Imoen, Sarevok). But again, I don't know your mod's quest so I guess it makes sense.

Edited by jastey, 25 January 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[jastey]

--hit "quote" instead of "edit", ignore this post--

Edited by jastey, 25 January 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[Samriel]

 This is not about exclusive relationship or similar, this is about incompatible storylines. The wife of the paladin will not do the things happening in ToB and RtF at Sandrah's side, i.e she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs, she leaves to find the right one.

I'm kinda curious about this point too.

 

I understand that with the PC married to another NPC we cannot proceed with the "canon" outcome leading to RtF with Sandrah as the new goddess and the PC as her husband/consort.

 

The plot demands that.

 

However, I do not get what the "she is not the Bhaalspawn Sandrah needs" bit means.

 

Sandrah certainly couldn't expect/know that she will end up becoming a goddess and that a candidate for a god/goddess is what she needs for a husband. So there are no signs that she chose to accompany the PC to see whether he/she would make a worthy husband/consort.

 

So why would she leave by seeing the PC as "not someone whom she needs"? Wasn't she mainly interested in the PC(at least in the beginning) due to a possible connection to her mom and to see whether he/she was good or evil?

 

I think in that situation Sandrah being willing for the PC to share other NPCs beds but not share his/her heart with them as the reason for her leaving if the PC falls in love with some other NPC would sound more believable.

[konva]

Roxanne please could you help me with stuck? I have finished epizode one of grey clan, then talked to elminster to go legencase academy, killed all, looted everything, but how to get out of there? I explored everything but I cant go back.

 

//btw I tried to do again the fight with monica, and she does nothing. She only stays even If I attack her.

Edited by konva, 25 January 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[Bronkhorst]

Hi Konva,

 

See post 859 on page 43. You'll have to enter Monica's scripts in an editor if they're missing like mine were - I used EE Keeper (shadowkeeper). Once done, you'll need to load a save before you entered the Legencase Academy for the new scripts to be applied.

[konva]

ahh thanks

[Roxanne]

ahh thanks

This was corrected in the recent versions, you probably use an older version of the mod.

[Roxanne]

END OF SANDRAH FOR BGT Test phase...

 

This has been discussed and anounced for a while already and now it is time to come to a conclusion.

 

Sandrah for BGT has been an experiment with mixed results. Many of those can be found on the nearly 1000 post made here over the last 9 months.

 

The main reason to end the test phase as well as the maintenance of the mod is that BGT (having been the best game around for a decade now) has truely ever been two games glued together. Especially Sandrah's approach for a continuous mod, game and story had to make many compromises and workarounds,

 

Some time ago I thus started to follow the EET development - trying not to get impressed by big anouncement but focussing on facts. Recently I got more and more involved into supporting the finetuning of EET, all the while learning more about its possibilities.

 

The result in a nutshell - EET is the platform that Sandrah was designed for (without me knowing it at that time), and even if that means a large re-design of the mod, the final result will be more consistent, more contents and, most of all, more fun.

 

Consequently Sandrah will go into some kind of hiatus until EET will be released. And Sandrah for EET will be available with it.

 

So...

Thank you to all who contributed in all the various ways - none of your input is lost, I am sure all of those who will try EET in a while with her will agree to that.

 

...ANNOUNCING SANDRAH FOR EET

[Roxanne]

You will kill Sandrah BGT?    Will you at least leave latest BGT beta?

 

I am not killing her, I will just not develop her further.

The beta and also my support for it will continue to be available.

There will just be no major changes for her anymore, bugfixing will continue as far as it also affects her EET branch.

[micbaldur]

Sad that ending BGT support means that i'm not going to enjoy Sandrah in my BWP in future.

 

Good luck you and Sandrah in EE world.

[The Imp]

Sad that ending BGT support means that i'm not going to enjoy Sandrah in my BWP in future.

Like said in the other thread, there will no be exact support end... there will be no content addition, but bug fixes there is.

Edited by The Imp, 26 January 2016 - 11:38 AM.