HELP: Long bow proficiency working for short bows

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#2 The Imp

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 11:46 AM

Can you give an actual reproducable example ?
What I need is an item file name, and weidu.log's content.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit).
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.

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#3 Argent77

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:11 PM

The ITM resource format contains a field (at offset 0x31) where you can assign the associated weapon proficiency for that item. One of your mods must have modified that field and assigned type "PROFICIENCYLONGBOW" in place of "PROFICIENCYSHORTBOW" for every (short)bow in your game.

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#4 Ulb

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:28 PM

The ITM resource format contains a field (at offset 0x31) where you can assign the associated weapon proficiency for that item. One of your mods must have modified that field and assigned type "PROFICIENCYLONGBOW" in place of "PROFICIENCYSHORTBOW" for every (short)bow in your game.

That is the first thing I checked, but nope, my short bows still use the shot bow proficiency (and using a short bow + short bow proficiency works perfectly fine).

That is really the whole point why I started this thread, I just can't think of a way how you could make the long bow proficiency work with BOTH long bow and short bow proficiency weapons at the same time..

Can you give an actual reproducable example ?
What I need is an item file name, and weidu.log's content.

It is not about an item, it is a general issue. ANY weapon with the short bow proficiency will get bonuses from stars in the long bow proficiency (but long bows still work as well).

As I said before, I don't see ToBEx offering this as a feature and there shouldn't be a 2DA file that allows to do this either.

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#5 Argent77

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:40 PM

Can you check if shortbow proficiency and longbow proficiency are using the same numeric values in your STATS.IDS?

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#6 The Imp

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:36 PM

Or just give us your weidu.log'c content...

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit).
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.

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#7 Ulb

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:24 PM

Or just give us your weidu.log'c content...

I fail to see how that will help you, given that you don't know either how this behavior is even possible, but if it makes you happy...

Spoiler

Can you check if shortbow proficiency and longbow proficiency are using the same numeric values in your STATS.IDS?

They still use different values.

As I said, it doesn't work the other way around.. short bow proficiency works perfectly fine and won't give any bonuses to long bows.. it is only that long bows prof. works for both.

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#8 The Imp

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:43 PM

I fail to see how that will help you, given that you don't know either how this behavior is even possible, but if it makes you happy...

Well, I'll give you the reason, I am not trying to only help you, but others that can and find this topic and have the same problem, that can find clues on how to trace th problem to it's source.
And this help myself. That's why we (I and Argent77) do this. :devil:

Now then as the weidu.log is rather long and arguably combersome, let's try to minimize the install for this particular problem to it's roots, by taking an example: Does this problem happen in your game with the bow06.itm item too ? If so, and assuming you have a weidu.exe folder in the game folder, make a --change-log of the item by running a .bat file with this code in it, inside the game install folder:

mkdir change-log
WeiDU.exe --log nul --change-log bow06.itm >change-log/change-log.txt --out change-log

This will make a change-log.txt file into the game folders subfolder called changelog, I would prefer that you would open the folder and package its content to a .zip archive and upload it to the forum or anyother place where we can download it. The whole content, not just parts, so we have the backup files too, for ourselves.
After that you can take the "bow06.00001.itm", rename it as "bow06.itm" and put it into the game folders override folder, and load the save game and try if you still have the same anomaly, on that particular item. If you do not, then it's one of the mods that edit the item file, if it still happens, then it's something else.

I do the helping this way instead of what Argent77 does, and is because I really hate guessing. There, I bended the answer to you from a barbed wire. Happy now ?

Edited by The Imp, 29 August 2015 - 03:45 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit).
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.

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#9 Ulb

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 05:08 PM

I get that you're just trying to help Imp (and I appreciate that ) but in this particular case your MO won't yield any results, hence why I didn't bother uploading my log file the first time.

The problem is NOT related to a specific item. I could create a completely new bow or import an untouched vanilla bow, it wouldn't matter.
The issue lies with the proficiency stats themselves and as long as I/we have no clue how it is even possible to modify proficiencies in such a way, there is no way to track this bug back to any specific mod.

Edited by Ulb, 29 August 2015 - 05:09 PM.

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#10 Lollorian

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 08:04 AM

~~Can you check if shortbow proficiency and longbow proficiency are using the same numeric values in your STATS.IDS?~~

~~Have you had a look at this?~~

EDIT: I'm illiterate sorry :doh: I'll just move along now...

Edited by Lollorian, 31 August 2015 - 08:05 AM.

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#11 Ulb

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 12:20 PM

No worries, at least you tried.

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#12 subtledoctor

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 07:34 AM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Ulb" data-cid="580676" data-time="1440896937">
I get that you're just trying to help Imp (and I appreciate that

) but in this particular case your MO won't yield any results, hence why I didn't bother uploading my log file the first time. 
 
The problem is NOT related to a specific item. I could create a completely new bow or import an untouched vanilla bow, it wouldn't matter. 
The issue lies with the proficiency stats themselves and as long as I/we have no clue how it is even possible to modify proficiencies in such a way, there is no way to track this bug back to any specific mod.</blockquote>

Then why are you posting here asking for help??

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#13 Ulb

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:00 PM

Then why are you posting here asking for help??

What's the point of your question?

I ran into some rather obscure issue that I can't explain. So naturally, I post here asking if anyone else has an idea what's going on. (Turns out no-one else can explain it either.)

What the Imp suggested is in this case of absolutely no help at all and just beause I posted here I'm not obliged to follow each and every "trouble shooting" advice I am given, no matter how useless, am I?

My last post which you even quoted made it perfectly clear as to why the Imp's suggestion couldn't possibly yield any clues.

Edited by Ulb, 10 September 2015 - 09:06 PM.

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#14 Fiann of the Silver Hand

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 09:26 PM

Ghosts. Has to be.

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#15 The Imp

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Posted 10 September 2015 - 10:49 PM

What the Imp suggested is in this case of absolutely no help at all and just beause I posted here I'm not obliged to follow each and every "trouble shooting" advice I am given, no matter how useless, am I?
My last post which you even quoted made it perfectly clear as to why the Imp's suggestion couldn't possibly yield any clues.

Well, just because you are so sure about it not helping you, so I'll bust that bouble for you. The mod effecting the bow06.itm are not actually responsible for the proficieny change. and *pop*, there it goes. Of course you don't have to take my word for it. You could reproduce the weidu.log without the mods installed in your game and see if this still is there.

Now the next thing I'll say can be a lot off or be totally on point, because you have not said anything about the game you play, so you have not for example isolated the use of magic/item.

Anyways I would put the blame on the spells/items your character is under effects of. What this means that one of them is intentionally setting a script state that is also the bow proficiency of the BG1. Yeah, those still effect the BG2 chars, as all the mosters weapon proficiencies for example are handled this way.

"Wh... ?" -you ask, yeah that happens a bit in this game as it's one of the best ways to detect spells both benefitial and harmful by the AI, by the Detectable Spells submods(SCS for example being one of those).

But usually mages don't get that much of a bonus out of it cause the effects are temporary and they won't be able to use Long Bows ... unless you are a multi or dual class, and even then the benefit of building your character around such a obscure thing is kinda absurd. Or the spells description would just need to say +x to Bow proficiencies. But then that won't come from the fact that you have the Short Bow proficiency, and it works on both weapons(Long and Short Bow) equally.

Last and the most fun^TM suggestion I come up with is that you are simply miscalculating all the stat bonuses the character is under.

Edited by The Imp, 11 September 2015 - 12:21 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit).
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.

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#16 Ulb

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Posted 11 September 2015 - 11:12 AM

Well, just because you are so sure about it not helping you, so I'll bust that bouble for you.

Well, I'll repeat myself one more time:

What you suggested would have only provided a list of mods affecting said item as well as all versions of that item. Since the item itself is perfectly fine and NOT responsible for the odd behavior that would have been of no use at all.

I checked the item, I even used a completely new item. I really don't get why you seem to have such a hard time to comprehend this.

Anyways I would put the blame on the spells/items your character is under effects of. What this means that one of them is intentionally setting a script state that is also the bow proficiency of the BG1. Yeah, those still effect the BG2 chars, as all the mosters weapon proficiencies for example are handled this way.

Now, this an interesting thought.

It still can't be caused by an item as I checked them and there is also no permanent "modify script state" effect on my character either but I guess it is possible that a script is setting such a state whenever my character equips an item with the short bow proficiency.

Sounds a little far fetched but as it is the best idea I've heard so far, I'll investigate.

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