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List of compatible difficulty mods to install with BWS?


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#1 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 03:34 PM

agb1 appeared in the thread in a lower post with a list of observations from testing/questions. Proceed downwards if that's your fancy!

 

xxXXxx

 

Heyo! Could one of you knowledgeable people around help me make up a list of difficulty changing mods that won't botch one another in a complex BWS install?

 

My last one seemed to work okay, but then it turned out some enemies wouldn't cast spells because of AI mods conflicting with one another and it was quite a buzzkill that made me ditch the playthrough completely :(

 

IIRC I went through all the AI/Difficulty mods and their components making sure that no same encounter/creature was modified by two mods (I think I started with the 'tactical' list to begin with), but some still got borked. I carefully went through all those "XX component from mod YY preferred" and checked the preferred ones unchecking the related from other mods. No luck.

 

So since logic failed me, I don't know how to do it anymore and since I'd like to have the most fun components from various mods I thought this time I'll ask the pros. No more shenanigans.

 

BP/SCS/Tactics/etc all got different things they change, don't they? Different encounters, different groups of monsters affected by scripts? That's how I remember it. And somehow it seemed that in the end SCS and BP conflicted or something causing some of the monsters to just hit me with their sticks instead of casting spells or quaffing potions.

 

xxXXxx

 

So, if some kind soul would feel like helping/sharing their experience, here's what comes to mind:

 

- I love varied encounters and I had some mod/s that added fun, difficult twists last time. Much better than every wizard ever popping 10 contingencies with the same set of spells.

 

- I love new, unexpected enounters! And additional interesting enemies thrown into the good old familiar ones. One of the mods added some sketchy assassins to Irenicus dungeon who popped at me from invisibility. Totally a "what?!" moment. Good!

 

- I'd love to have smarter enemies of all sorts. Mages, warriors, thieves, casting different spells, different behaviors, using items/potions. I guess this wish is what doomed me last time, but I know it can be done - just not sure how to do it responsibly.

 

- I don't know if it's still a thing, but I remember old old Tactics having some insaaaaane fights. I remember failing on Irenicus then reading a guide that was like 3 pages long detailing super specific uses of spells in specific moments. I like difficult, I like to have to think/do something else first, but I'm not a masochist/Master Tactician of Doom... so within reason. Super Firkraag is probably not my thing.

 

- On another note I had a blast with some version of Irenicus' dungeon where doors would get locked open and you couldn't rest. That was hard as hell with buffed duergars and what not (IIRC), but when I got through it, daaamn was it satisfying! And it wasn't based on burning through 30 buff spells/resistance to everything which made it really interesting. I don't need that now (I'm not sure it even exists anymore), but I remember that fondly (with a faint smell of sweat and blood lingering...). Fun idea. Fun ideas are fun. Maybe there's more of those that I don't know of :)

 

- I don't use any custom classes so mods that take those into account/got issues with them are no issue.

 

- I love that 'learn through use' mod, but I forgot how many hits per levels made sense - any experiences with that? :D

 

- are there some outdated Tweak packs still present in BWS? I seeeeem to recall something being there while also being redundant, but for the life of me, I can't remember what...

 

- I like when powerful enemies drop powerful drop (makes it satisfying and worth to beat them!), but I don't like free stuff... So weak-ish enemies wielding powerful swag would be a no no and fun-spoilers. I've had some mods like that and they made me sad (can never tell before they happen in game and I suck at throwing away good items once I find them... sticky fingers).

 

- New quests are definitely cool, but not one of those full-new-world things. I remember trying one one time (NEJ?) and I came back completely OP which sucked. Plus I like BG. I want to play BG. Occasional escapades are great, but nothing too huge or balance wrecking.

 

- Are there some item rebalacing/quest mods/other that can mess things up? I don't think they do, but since I'm already asking...

 

- I'm not a fan of introducing too many new spells and massive rule changes (small ones I like come from the basic tweak mods I believe), but I'd like those expanded leveling tables that allow progression to higher levels. I don't remember where those came from, another topic around here points to BP, which is also said to have compability issues? Yep, confused :D

 

- Is the good old stutter bug gone? Or does it still plague the BWP? There's been a bunch of releases since I last dropped by. Thumbs crossed!

 

Cheers!

 

# Oh and one more question - is there a way to play a nice fully modded BWP game with the EE UI? Some mod that imports it perhaps?


Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 28 November 2015 - 12:10 PM.


#2 agb1

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:29 PM

"some enemies wouldn't cast spells because of AI mods conflicting with one another"

Definitely safer to install only one mod that modifies AI. Choose between Big Picture, Ding0 Quest Pack, SCS, Tactics.

The latest version of Big Picture AI has some reported problems with neutral NPCs becoming temporarily hostile during fights (but not actually attacking the party, just running around, so you could see this as a realistic 'feature'). micbaldur has been fairly successfully with Big Picture AI but has reported some creatures that do not behave correctly with it. These are being patched in the BiG World Fixpack as they are reported, but micbaldur has not finished his playthrough so there are probably still some creatures that will not behave correctly. Also, micbaldur plays with Party AI turned off, so you might see different results if you leave it on. You said that you prefer randomness, so I think you do NOT want SCS AI, because that is very systematic.

That's AI. Now let's consider encounters.

If you use Big Picture AI, you should use Big Picture versions of encounters. Same for SCS AI and SCS versions of encounters. Same for Tactics. Although there are some components of each mod that are not overlapping with the other mods, it is safest to pick only one of these three mods.

- I love varied encounters and I had some mod/s that added fun, difficult twists last time. Much better than every wizard ever popping 10 contingencies with the same set of spells.

This sounds like you want BP AI.

"One of the mods added some sketchy assassins to Irenicus dungeon who popped at me from invisibility."

I think this is the SCS harder starting dungeon component.

- I'd love to have smarter enemies of all sorts. Mages, warriors, thieves, casting different spells, different behaviors, using items/potions. I guess this wish is what doomed me last time, but I know it can be done - just not sure how to do it responsibly.

I think BP AI does all of this for existing items, but I am not sure if it adds extra potions to enemies. SCS AI adds extra random potions to enemies.

"I had a blast with some version of Irenicus' dungeon where doors would get locked open and you couldn't rest."

Again, I think this is SCS harder starting dungeon.

'learn through use'

I haven't tried it.

"are there some outdated Tweak packs still present in BWS?"

With tweaks, you should really review all of the components and decide exactly which ones you want. If you do this and avoid Expert mods, you will be as safe as we currently know how to be.

"weak-ish enemies wielding powerful swag would be a no no"

Many mods do this. For this, I think you want to avoid big expansion mods such as CtB, DSotSC, NTotSC, TDD. Stick with smaller quest mods and enable any tactical components they offer.

"Are there some item rebalancing/quest mods/other that can mess things up?"

Item tweaks usually make items less powerful. Again, with tweaks, pick only the ones you want.

Quests should be pretty safe.

"Is the good old stutter bug gone?"

Stutter is caused by lots of things. If you use generalized biffing and lolfixer, you will prevent many of the common causes.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#3 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:10 PM

Thanks for the reply!

 

I'm browsing through the topic about expert-marked mods around here. It reminded me of that call-for-help component. Was that BP? That was also pretty neat, but I think it was SCS looking at the list below :) Don't know about the fight with teleporting Davaeorn with strange things going on around. I wish I remembered where those fun things came from.

 

The reason I mashed so many mods and components into the installation was that they all seemed to affect different encounters and I didn't want to miss out on some fun stuff. I actually did some file archeology and recovered a list of components from tactical mods I had installed. In the BG1 part, the installation was working pretty fine aside of few creature types AFAIR (but can't remember which. I do remember that Davaeorn fight though, and crazy duergars in Nashkel mines and very challenging party standing in front of the Cloakwood mines - all of those worked great!).

 

Here's the list of components that I had ticked according to component notes:

~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ascension v1.41 (requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1 // Tougher Abazigal (optional, requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2 // Original Tougher Demogorgon (optional, requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #3 // Tougher Gromnir (optional, requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #4 // Tougher Illasera (optional, requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #5 // Tougher Yaga-Shura (optional, requires ToB): v1.4.24 BWP Fix
~DSOTSC/SETUP-DSOTSC.TP2~ #0 #5 // DSotSC for BGT-Weidu: v 2.17
~SETUP-AZENMOD.TP2~ #0 #0 // Azengaard Tactical Encounter (erebusant's revamp): v5
~SETUP-AZENMOD.TP2~ #0 #1 // Enhanced Trademeet Crypt: v5
~SETUP-AZENMOD.TP2~ #0 #2 // Enhanced Chateau Irenicus: v5
~SETUP-COM_ENCOUNTERS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Chosen of Mystra's Encounters (Requires Throne of Bhaal): v1.08 BWP Fix
~SETUP-COM_ENCOUNTERS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Would you like to install improved druid encounters?: v1.08 BWP Fix
~SETUP-COM_ENCOUNTERS.TP2~ #0 #2 // Would you like to install improved Shagbag encounters?: v1.08 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #0 // Big Picture, core component (required for most subcomponents): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #10 // Patching all the existing innate spells, setting level to one.....: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #50 // Level-50 Ruleset (Code By King Diamond): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #60 // Custom Grandmastery (w/ extra attacks): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Beholder Cult: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Vampire Encounters -> Chapter 3 and 6 (no bodhi): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Copper Coronet and Slavers: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1130 // Drizzt Encounter (Chapter 6): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1170 // Treant Encounter: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1190 // Hell Trial Additions: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1200 // Horreds Lair: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1210 // Irenicus Dungeon Enhancements (except Duergar): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1330 // Tavern Brawl (In the Seven Veils): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1350 // Planar Prison: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1375 // Planar Sphere Enhancements (including Tolgerias): v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1570 // Improved Spellhold -> Spellhold Enhancments - Full Package: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1600 // Improved Suldanessallar: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1625 // Tanners Quest: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1650 // Trademeet Enhancements: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1675 // Wand of Orcus Add-In: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1700 // Windspear Hills Enhancements: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1110 // Kensai Ryu's Brown Dragon: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1120 // Kensai Ryu's Improved Crypt King: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1175 // Kensai Ryu's Gnome Fighter/Illusionist in the Docks: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1275 // Gebhard Blucher's Lich in the Docks: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1525 // Improved Small Teeth Pass, by Kensai Ryu: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1250 // Kuroisan the Acid Kensai, by Westley Weimer: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1425 // Red Badge, Poison-Based Encounter, by Westley Weimer: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1450 // The Ritual, by Westley Weimer: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~BP/SETUP-BP.TP2~ #0 #1800 // ToB Improvements: v181-b4611 BWP Fix
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #11 // Improved Oasis II -> IO2 Dialogue & Combat Enhancement: v3
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #5 // Improved Irenicus: v25; Lol's Update to v26
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #32 // Mike Barnes' Improved North Forest: v25; Lol's Update to v26
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #33 // Mike Barnes' Marching Mountains: v25; Lol's Update to v26
~SETUP-LONGERROAD.TP2~ #0 #0 // Longer Road v 1.5: v1.5.1 BWP Fix
~SETUP-LONGERROAD.TP2~ #0 #2 // Restore Irenicus's original portrait from SoA.: v1.5.1 BWP Fix
~WHEELS/SETUP-WHEELS.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Wheels of Prophecy: v3
~SETUP-GRIMUARS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Tougher Gaal
~SETUP-GRIMUARS.TP2~ #0 #4 // Tougher Ardhata
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #0 // Improved Battles - "erebusant's Patching Version" v6: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #1 // Improved Drizzt: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #2 // Improved Mencar Pebblecrusher: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #3 // Improved Mad Cleric: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #4 // Improved House Jae'llat: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #5 // Improved Lord Roenall: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #6 // Improved Master Brain: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #7 // Improved Wraith Sarevok: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #8 // Improved Cohrvale, Bregg & Alamas: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #13 // Improved Fire Giants (requires ToB): v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #14 // Improved Shade Lord: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #15 // Improved Trademeet Crypt: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #17 // Much Improved Temple Sewers Party: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #18 // Improved Kiser Jhaeri (requires ToB): v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #19 // Improved Falahar: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #20 // Improved Drow Pit Fights: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #21 // Improved Chromatic Demon: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #22 // Knights of Dark Renown: v6.3 BWP Fix
~SETUP-REVISEDBATTLES.TP2~ #0 #27 // Modify .CRE Proficiencies, Abilities & Effects. This component MUST be installed.: v6.3 BWP Fix
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #5900 // Initialise AI components (required for all tactical and AI components): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6023 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to spellcasters -> All eligible spellcasters in Throne of Bhaal get HLAs; only selected casters in Shadows of Amn do: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6031 // Smarter Mages -> Mages only cast short-duration spells instantly at start of combat if they are created in sight of the PC: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6041 // Smarter Priests -> Priests only cast short-duration spells instantly at start of combat if they are created in sight of the PC: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6101 // Potions for NPCs -> One third of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved Spiders: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6300 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6310 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6320 // Smarter basilisks: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6500 // Improved golems: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6510 // Improved fiends -> Fiends have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6520 // Smarter genies -> Genies have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6530 // Smarter celestials -> Celestials have about 50 percent more hit points than normal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6540 // Smarter dragons -> Dragons have a substantial hit point increase: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6550 // Smarter beholders -> Give beholder rays some chance to "burn through" spell protections; beholder antimagic blocks all spells, including harmful ones, for a round (simulates D&D rules): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6561 // Smarter mind flayers -> Illithids have enhanced damage resistance; Illithids can see through invisibility (matches Tactics mod): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6570 // Smarter githyanki: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6590 // Smarter Throne of Bhaal final villain: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6800 // Smarter Illasera: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6810 // Smarter Gromnir: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6820 // Smarter Yaga-Shura: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6830 // Smarter Abazigal: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6840 // Give Ascension versions of Irenicus and Sendai SCSII scripts and abilities: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #6850 // Give Ascension demons SCSII scripts and abilities: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7000 // Improved doppelgangers: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7050 // Improved Ulcaster: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7070 // Improved Durlag's Tower: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7080 // Improved Demon Cultists: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7100 // Improved Bassilus: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7110 // Improved Drasus party: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7130 // Improved Red Wizards: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7140 // Improved Undercity party: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7200 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7210 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7220 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7230 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7250 // Improved final battle: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #7900 // Improved minor encounters: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8000 // Make the starting dungeon slightly harder: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8010 // Improved Shade Lord: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8020 // Spellcasting Demiliches: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8030 // More resilient trolls: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8042 // Increase difficulty of level-dependent monster groupings -> Almost-maximum difficulty (maximum for everything except liches): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8050 // Improved Random Encounters: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8061 // Improved de'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix") -> Enhanced spirit trolls (as in Tactics): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8070 // Improved Unseeing Eye: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8090 // Party's items are taken from them in Spellhold: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8100 // Improved battle with Irenicus in Spellhold: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8110 // Improved Sahuagin: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8120 // Improved Beholder hive (adapted from Quest Pack): v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8130 // Prevent resting in the Illithid city: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8141 // Slightly Improved Drow -> Leave Ust Natha's defences alone: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8150 // Slightly Improved Watcher's Keep: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8160 // Improved Fire Giant temple: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8170 // Enhanced Sendai's Enclave: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8180 // Improved Abazigal's Lair: v28
~STRATAGEMS/SETUP-STRATAGEMS.TP2~ #0 #8190 // Improved Minor Encounters: v28

I believe those were all of the AI/Encounter mods/components I had. Can I keep similar components without messing up AI and causing it to overlap? I still don't see any overlaps, but there's a chance I'm blind :)

 

I also had a bunch of quest mods and other installed, but nothing AI-changing so I skipped listing those for the sake of clarity.


Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 26 November 2015 - 06:35 PM.


#4 agb1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 07:08 AM

There are some known conflicts in your list, and I suspect there are also some unknown conflicts. For example, I do not know if the BP encounters components attach BP AI scripts to the creatures they add. If they do, there is a dependency on using BP AI instead of SCS. Also, horred (BP author) lately recommends installing BP after SCS if you use both because he has made some attempts at compatibility (BP is at least aware of SCS) whereas SCS just overwrites BP scripts.

These components have not been reviewed in detail yet for BWS. Someone will have to take the time to analyze each component, see what files are modified, and how, to answer this. Or you can just toss them all together again and see what breaks. At minimum I think you have some overlapping changes here, so some content will not be seen because later mods replace it. It probably will not break your game beyond creatures behaving stupidly if they have the wrong AI scripts.

I do not know if any of these components are "super-tactical" (so difficult you practically need to cheat or use meta-game exploit tactics).

I do not know if any of these components add powerful magical items to weak creatures.

A particular issue I see is a couple of different variations of TOB and Ascension related tweaks. Almost certainly there is some conflict of AI scripts in there and some overwrite of changes from earlier versions. Remember Ascension has its own custom AI scripts for the creatures it adds, which are replaced by SCS AI or BP AI scripts if you enable the Ascension components of those mods.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#5 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 10:32 AM

Hm. I see. If horred is working on compatibility, I guess I could install BP after SCS and just report any suspicious behaviors and be a useful community member then :D With a little direction I could also probably provide whatever information might be needed using the modding tools. Once I remember how to use them, that is. Been a while, but it wasn't very complicated at the level I knew them at so it should be doable :P

 

That brings a major question though: Does BWS set BP after SCS in order or has that not yet been implemented? If it does, I might be a guinea pig.

 

I'll take a closer look at the ToB changes and description of the Ascension mod to try and eliminate any strange overlaps. But is SCS and BP have Ascension-related components, doesn't that mean they're meant to work with it?


Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 27 November 2015 - 10:52 AM.


#6 agb1

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 11:31 AM

BWS still has BP installed before SCS for BGT games.  I switched the install order for EE (BP after SCS).

 

I can create a test branch for BGT with BP after SCS if you want to try it.

 

As for Ascension + SCS/BP, yes, those are meant to go after it.  But there are two versions of Ascension - the original WeiDU version that SCS was designed to enhance, and the BP version.  I would use original Ascension + SCS enhancements or BP Ascension + BP enhancements, but not mix between them... for now.  Analysis might reveal that it is fine.


Edited by agb1, 27 November 2015 - 11:33 AM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#7 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 12:42 PM

I don't use EE as I heard most mods aren't compatible with it yet (BWP + BWS speaking). Does that still hold true? Or did people find ways to make them work?

 

BWS still has BP installed before SCS for BGT games.  I switched the install order for EE (BP after SCS).

 

I can create a test branch for BGT with BP after SCS if you want to try it.

 

As for Ascension + SCS/BP, yes, those are meant to go after it.  But there are two versions of Ascension - the original WeiDU version that SCS was designed to enhance, and the BP version.  I would use original Ascension + SCS enhancements or BP Ascension + BP enhancements, but not mix between them... for now.  Analysis might reveal that it is fine.

 

I will wait for your Tactical mods testing to conclude. I'll most likely be stuck with my install for months so might as well wait a few weeks to see how to make it less risky :P I'll keep an eye out for new developments. Is there a topic you post about those in? I'd tab it for stalk.



#8 The Imp

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 01:23 PM

I don't use EE as I heard most mods aren't compatible with it yet (BWP + BWS speaking). Does that still hold true? Or did people find ways to make them work?
Nearly all the mods today are linchpinned onto the BGT-weidu to combine the two games together and thus bring the combination into a larger game.
In the past there was nothing to do that to a Enhanced Edition games, so there was less immident wish from people to move into the EE games. And so less EE compatible mods. There is those...
Now, the EET has that covered, it's still a beta until the BG:Siege of the Dragon Spear comes out with the simultanious v1.4 BG1EE and BG2EE updates, and the EET is promised to be a day one release after they officially come out. K4thos has also been covering at least the Secrets of the Bonehill the BGT mods that relies to the BGT's addition material. And Bringing the IWDEE to that same game as a seperated but connected content. There's also some movement in the others, but they too could be tied to the EE v1.4 update too, as it should allow a few moding options that the v1.3 doesn't.

If those come out, there will be movement in the other smaller mods to adopt the EE ... and it's doable, it just need to be adopted. Similar like the BG1Tutu, EasyTutu, CA, BGT, BGT-weidu had to be in the past.

Edited by The Imp, 27 November 2015 - 01:27 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#9 agb1

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 11:19 AM

Spoiler

 

I am examining the BP "tactical encounters" components.  Several of the BP encounters add new creatures with BP scripts or apply BP scripts to existing creatures:

 
These are some of the questions I am trying to answer:

 

1. Are there undesirable consequences if creatures are assigned BP scripts but the BP AI components are not installed?

 

2. What happens if SCS AI components are installed afterwards?  (So far, it seems that SCS does NOT replace BP scripts on creatures, which is the opposite of what I was expecting.)

 

3. Creatures with BP scripts individually behave according to BP logic. Are there dependencies on other BP components for these individual scripts to work as intended?  (For example, do the BP scripts expect globals to be set by other BP scripts that are only installed if the BP AI components are installed?)

 

4. Will creatures using BP scripts cooperate with creatures using SCS scripts?  (For example, will BP script shouts/calls for help provoke expected reactions from nearby creatures that do not have BP AI scripts?  Will creatures with BP scripts correctly respond to shouts/calls for help from creatures using SCS AI scripts?)

 

Observations so far (I will edit this post with updates):

 

Creatures use BP scripts (probably should only use if also installing BP AI):

BP 1000 (generic encounters)

BP 1020 (beholder cult)

BP 1030 to 1090 (vampire encounters)

BP 1100 (improved copper coronet and slavers)

BP 1110 (brown dragon)

BP 1120 (improved crypt king)
BP 1130 (chapter 6 drizzt encounter)
BP 1140 to 1160 (druidic improvements)
BP 1170 (treant encounter)
BP 1190 (improved hell trials)
BP 1200 (Horred's Lair)
BP 1210 (Irenicus Dungeon Enhancements - except Duergar)
BP 1300 (Improved Mae'Var)
BP 1315 (Improved Nalia Quests)
BP 1330 (Tougher Tavern Brawl In the Seven Veils)
BP 1350 (Tougher Planar Prison)
BP 1375 (Planar Sphere Improvements - compatible with Planar Sphere mod)
BP 1400 (Random Encounters, by Gebhard Blucher & Kensai Ryu)
BP 1525 (Mike Barnes' Improved Small Teeth Pass)
BP 1550 to 1590 (improved spellhold)
BP 1600 (Improved Suldanessellar)
BP 1625 (Improved tanner's quest)
BP 1650 (Improved Trademeet Encounters)
BP 1675 (Wand of Orcus)
BP 1700 (Improved Windspear Hills)
BP 1750 (Improved Watchers Keep)
BP 1800 (ToB Improvements)
 
Creatures do not use BP scripts (should be safe to install with non-BP AI mods):
BP 1175 (Gnome Fighter/Illusionist Encounter)
BP 1225 (Tougher Kangaxx and Guardians Encounter)
BP 1250 (Kuroisan Encounter)
BP 1275 (Lich in the Docks Encounter)
BP 1425 (Red Badge encounter)
BP 1450 (The Ritual Encounter)
 
Creatures only use BP scripts if the AI components are installed, otherwise original game scripts:
BP 1725 (Improved Xvart Village - included in DSotSC)
 

Edited by agb1, 29 November 2015 - 08:40 AM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

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#10 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 12:20 PM

Are you checking BG1 part as well alongside the mod-added creatures? Or focusing on BG2?



#11 agb1

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 12:51 PM

Are you checking BG1 part as well alongside the mod-added creatures? Or focusing on BG2?

I intend to check both.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#12 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 02:03 PM

Best of luck! Good to know I could help even a little bit :) I'll be a cheercatleader for now, and a guinea picat once you've covered what could be covered without more coverage.


Edited by Munchkin Mooch, 28 November 2015 - 02:03 PM.


#13 agb1

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:01 PM

BWS still has BP installed before SCS for BGT games.  I switched the install order for EE (BP after SCS).

Correction:  actually, BWS is configured to install BP AI components after SCS.  Only the non-AI components are installed earlier. 


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#14 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:39 AM

You know what, I was thinking, since I want to check a few things in BG as it is, I thought I could do some most-current BWS installation with those difficulty mods and a bunch of others and, while zooming through locations to check what I wanted, I could see if nearby encounters don't do derpy things and possibly nab some balance-wrecking things (the part I want to check for myself) that could be mentioned in the BWS notes (I know I would love that, it's so easy to install such mods without wanting to, a knowledge of those would've spared me a bunch of grief in the past :D).

 

Granted, I'd not find everything, but something is better than nothing, no?



#15 agb1

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:44 AM

Would you like to try a test version of BWS with the rest of the BP encounter components moved to be installed following SCS?


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#16 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:54 AM

If that's the currently most-probably-most-successful version that you guys are trying to make THE right one then yep, I'd love to. I'll see if I find anything fishy there and return with logs if anything happens/good news if nothing does.

 

I've looked through the Downloads section here, it seems all the Fixpacks and BWS aren't updated yet. Should I wait a while? Or can I get the current stuff somewhere else?



#17 The Imp

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:09 AM

I've looked through the Downloads section here, it seems all the Fixpacks and BWS aren't updated yet. Should I wait a while? Or can I get the current stuff somewhere else?

This is because the forums file system is a little borg-ed... so just use the latest BWS provided downloads, which majority use the Github sites as their source.


Edited by The Imp, 29 November 2015 - 08:11 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#18 agb1

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:23 AM

I will provide a test link in a few minutes.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#19 Munchkin Mooch

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:30 AM

When you're ready, no rush. I've still got a bit of work to do today before I can roll it :)



#20 agb1

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 08:49 AM

I updated my earlier post with more info.  I am adding a dependency rule in BWS for all of the encounters that use BP scripts to require BP 150, which is also used in a conflict rule for all SCS AI components.  So you will not be able to use SCS AI with those encounters.

 

Try Tactical pre-selection (and check components) with this:

 

https://bitbucket.or...get/BP-test.zip

 

BP (except improved ascension) will be installed after SCS.  SCS AI shouldn't be allowed with BP.


Edited by agb1, 29 November 2015 - 10:14 AM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip