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Druidic sorcerer spells per level ( and other) bugs


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#1 Greenhorn

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Posted 23 December 2015 - 12:16 PM

Hmm, something that looked so promising turned quickly to be rather disappointing. Let's see, started new Classic adventures game with DS who's starting level is 9. ( Supposed to be 1, but I suspect that is incompatibility on kit's part, likely being designed for SoA or ToB only. His stats are 16, 16, 16, 10, 18, 18 ( rather tough cookie to roll stats for but I'm proud of this one  :) ). Regular sorc guy is supposed to have 6, 6, 6, 4 spells per casting on this level and DC 5, 5, 5, 4, ( without wisdom and charisma bonuses ) according to manuals for both kits. Well, I only have 6, 5, 4, 3 even with W and C bonuses. Looked on Shadow keeper under affects and it shows that DC have penalty of -2 spells per level instead of -1 per manual. And his hit points are weird, he was supposed to roll 1d6 points per level and I only have 51 hp. ( even with 1d4 hp/level and C 16 it is still low). Started game on normal difficulty and then changed to standard after character creation. I will continue game ( this guy is still uber powerful for this game ) but I strongly suspect this bugs are not the only ones. Is someone still maintain this mod? 


Edited by Greenhorn, 05 January 2016 - 06:48 AM.


#2 Ishad Nha

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 11:34 PM

I was able to get the Geomantic Sorceror mod to work on all three EE games:
http://gibberlings3....showtopic=12196
(It gets interesting at post #175 on page 12.)

If you are not trying to play this mod on BG2 Enhanced Edition there should be no problems. It has been around for years, so a problem like this should have been spotted ages ago... (Problems with other mods?)

If you are trying to play any mod on BG2EE there is always the potential for trouble, because the EE engine has a few subtle differences to the original BG2.
Average roll for 1d6 is 3.5, Constitution 16 means 2hp per level. 9 * (3.5 + 2) = 9 * (5.5) = 49.5 hp. So you should be getting 49 or 50 hp.
You could enable the MaxHP option.


Edited by Ishad Nha, 18 January 2016 - 11:54 PM.


#3 Greenhorn

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 01:26 AM

Actually, Classic adventures TC ( total conversion ) mod is only for old ToB engine. I gave up on EE series, at least for time being (until SoD finally comes around ). About his hit points, they were on max, but his 1d6 hit dice is probably never implemented feature of the author of mod, in reality DC has 1d4 hp per level, just like the regular one. This kit undoubtedly looks very interesting but unfortunately suffers from quite a few bugs, especially second component ( enable him to use druidic items which allows all mage classes and kits to use them, not just DS or regular one). Maybe lack of spells per level was result of incompatibility with Classic adventures ( which use many Big picture features ), but in any case, I lost interest in it. Tried geomantic sorcerer too, seems like more realistic and grounded version of DS, unfortunately it's weird acquisition via djinni ( no compatibility for Tutu or BGT unless you clua consoled that book ) and bugs with its portraits quickly turned me off. But I'm sure that both kits are rewarding eventually if you are persistent and can overlook few things, they are just not my cup of tea at the present...



#4 Ishad Nha

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:28 AM

Near Infinity shows a level 9 Sorceror getting 5, 4, 3, 2 spells. (MXSPLSRC.2da is the file here.) This was verified by creating a Sorceror and Consoling him to level 9. When the Kit description talks about "one less spell per level" it is referring to the usual BG2 number of spells per day, and only that.

Only the Protagonist needs the Genie, NPCs can gain the kit via Level 1 NPCs mod.

In the EE games, the kit is gained like any other.

On my install, portraits work properly for the Protagonist. Make sure that you have a portraits folder in your main BG2 directory.

That items issue I will look at later...



#5 Greenhorn

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 07:38 AM

Near Infinity shows a level 9 Sorceror getting 5, 4, 3, 2 spells. (MXSPLSRC.2da is the file here.) This was verified by creating a Sorceror and Consoling him to level 9. When the Kit description talks about "one less spell per level" it is referring to the usual BG2 number of spells per day, and only that.

Only the Protagonist needs the Genie, NPCs can gain the kit via Level 1 NPCs mod.

In the EE games, the kit is gained like any other.

On my install, portraits work properly for the Protagonist. Make sure that you have a portraits folder in your main BG2 directory.

That items issue I will look at later...

Just to clarify, Druidic sorcerer and Geomantic sorcerer are two different kits. According to my Throne of Bhaal  (original, not EE) manual which I'm looking just now the number of spells 9th level regular sorcerer can cast per day is 6, 6, 6, 4. Geomantic sorcerer spell progression is probably set right, never checked it that far, he is also recognized as sorcerer, so no druid goodies for him. (That is Druidic sorcerer component.) Never tried Geomantic sorcerer in EE, so portrait component quite possibly work good for you, I had some issues with reinstalling/uninstalling it, and  keeping my custom portrait unchanged. Don't know current version, I probably used older one back then. In any case have fun playing it and all things sorcerous.  :)



#6 The Imp

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 08:33 AM

Just to clarify, Druidic sorcerer and Geomantic sorcerer are two different kits.
And just to clarify the position on this, Ishad Nha has taken up the upkeep of the EE version of the Geomantic Sorcerer.
the number of spells 9th level regular sorcerer can cast per day is 6, 6, 6, 4.
That's how many charges of spells you have, Ishad Nha is talking about how many different kind of spells the Sorcerer class has. In addition to the possible druiding spells.
Yes, the MXSPLSRC.2da says how many sorcerial spells you have, while the mxsplwiz.2da has the number of memorization slots +1 for being a Sorcerer/specialist mage for those spells, as it's the non-specialists Mage table.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
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#7 Greenhorn

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 09:09 AM

And just to clarify the position on this, Ishad Nha has taken up the upkeep of the EE version of the Geomantic Sorcerer.

 Good news, good luck with it. 

 

That's how many charges of spells you have, Ishad Nha is talking about how many different kind of spells the Sorcerer class has. In addition to the possible druiding spells.

Ah, good, but my original complaint with DS, still stands, he was able to cast two spells fewer per day, instead of one. 



#8 Ishad Nha

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Posted 19 January 2016 - 05:56 PM

Might there be an error in the ToB Manual? I created a Sorceror at the start of SoA and only got 5, 4, 3, 2 spell slots. (Maybe they increased the spell slots from SoA to ToB?)

A Druidic Sorceror is created as a Druid then gains levels as a Sorceror.
The DS uses Druid items, that problem with the Druid items being usable by all Mages may have been fixed. In the case of the Spear and the Helmet, each item was usable by the Druidic Sorceror and not usable by Imoen, a Mage/Thief. I am using the latest version of the mod, v1.9. I will need to check this with single-class Wizards...

The problem exists for single-class Mages. It is hard to have a DS using Druid items and Mage scrolls without affecting other mages...

This mod uses custom items, hence a Mage/Thief can't use a spear but a Mage can.


Edited by Ishad Nha, 19 January 2016 - 10:50 PM.


#9 Greenhorn

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 12:43 AM

Might there be an error in the ToB Manual? I created a Sorceror at the start of SoA and only got 5, 4, 3, 2 spell slots. (Maybe they increased the spell slots from SoA to ToB?)

A Druidic Sorceror is created as a Druid then gains levels as a Sorceror.
The DS uses Druid items, that problem with the Druid items being usable by all Mages may have been fixed. In the case of the Spear and the Helmet, each item was usable by the Druidic Sorceror and not usable by Imoen, a Mage/Thief. I am using the latest version of the mod, v1.9. I will need to check this with single-class Wizards...

The problem exists for single-class Mages. It is hard to have a DS using Druid items and Mage scrolls without affecting other mages...

This mod uses custom items, hence a Mage/Thief can't use a spear but a Mage can.

Hmm, strange, I just created sorceror in tutorial of Shadows of Amn, level 7 and he has 6, 6, 4 charges per day, checked manual for ToB (looked manual for SoA only too, but there is mistake in it, sorcerer spell progression [ the number of spells he casts per day ] is missing in it) and everything seems to be in order, just like manual says. This is on clean, patched install. What version of game you are using? I  use old ToB with 26498 patch. Did you clua consoled him maybe? Using some mod which alters spell progression? 

EDIT: This can explain a lot: 

 

In order to give the kit new weapon permissions, it was necessary to change the way weapon permissions worked for a number
of mage classes.  As a result, some mages may be able to equip items that they normally shouldn't, but those items will be
dropped almost immediately, thereby restricting use to the appropriate classes in a slightly different fashion.
 
Sorcerer and mage spell learning tables were also changed a little to better reflect the rules and provide for logical level
advancement.  Mages now may cast 5 level 9 spells upon reaching level 25.  Sorcerers may learn 5 level 9 spells upon reaching
level 31.

Quote is from Druidic Sorcerer / Mystic Theurge Kit Instructions (version 1.9) readme. 


Edited by Greenhorn, 20 January 2016 - 12:50 AM.


#10 Ishad Nha

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 05:18 PM

Items being usable by any single-class Mage problem:
(1) This mod works by having 133 items included in its itm folder, each itm file has been altered to be usable
by single-class Mages. Multi-class mages are excluded from using these items. But there are no exclusions
on grounds of race or alignment.

(2) One solution is to choose item unusability bytes for these item files that exclude anyone not able to
become a Druidic Sorceror by reasons of race or alignment. That would remove all official Bioware magic-
using NPCs, four of whom are already excluded by reason of multi-class status.
Don't create any single class Mages of your own who meet the requirements to be a Druidic Sorceror.

Requirements:
-13 Wisdom, 9 Charisma
-Must be of any Neutral alignment.
-(Implicitly: must be able to become a Druid at the start of the game, that means he must be a Human or a
Half Elf.)



#11 Greenhorn

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 01:27 AM

Good workaround. Did you maybe  checked DS spell progresion and number of spells casted per day? It seems this mod alters all arcane spellcasters tables... 


Edited by Greenhorn, 21 January 2016 - 03:10 AM.


#12 Ishad Nha

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:22 AM

I will need to look at that spells problem much later. First I need to figure out what is happening with kit installation.
I want to prepare a translation for the EE engine.
Then I want to make sure that spells are only gained when they can be actually cast, something I achieved in the EE version of Geomantic Sorceror.

I am looking for a simple solution to the single class Mage item problem.
Simplest solution is to make the items unusable by specialist Mage's kits, then make sure you don't have a single-class generalist Mage in your party. Make sure that you have generalist Mages who are dual class or multiclass.
Another solution is to limit the Lawful and Chaotic alignments to single class Mages and then forbid affected items to the above two alignments, everyone else in the party is NG,TN or NE.
We only need to worry about items that Druids can use and Mages can't.
We don't want to forbid items to NPCs who can normally use them.

Kit is created as a Druid kit then DRSORC.bcs changes the class to Sorceror.



#13 Greenhorn

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:51 AM

Good luck with all of it. Wish I could help you but my modding, debuging and coding skills are very limited ( self taught actually as consequence of dealing with various bugs which haunted my games over the years), and my primary interest is playing. Can't wait to finally start my BWS adventure which will probably be my last run of this my all time favourite game. Alas, RL demands and approaching of new working season doesn't leave much free time for my pastimes ( or waste of time as my better half refers to it  :P ). But I will keep watching your progress with great interest, will you keep posting your observations here or on G3 forums? 

 

Another solution is to limit the Lawful and Chaotic alignments to single class Mages and then forbid affected items to the above two alignments, everyone else in the party is NG,TN or NE.

This is way radical solution IMHO, one mod shouldn't limit the game in such way, such imposed tweak would play poorly in megamod combos. I can't help but wandering is this mod had something to do with messed spell slots and progression  of some NPC in some posts I stumbled upon... 



#14 agb1

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 05:54 AM

This is way radical solution IMHO, one mod shouldn't limit the game in such way, such imposed tweak would play poorly in megamod combos. I can't help but wandering is this mod had something to do with messed spell slots and progression  of some NPC in some posts I stumbled upon... 

Unlikely.  Spell progression tables are determined by class and kit.  The (unresolved) issue I saw in the other thread was that spell progression was different for CHARNAME than for NPCs with the same class and kit.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#15 Greenhorn

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 06:07 AM

This is way radical solution IMHO, one mod shouldn't limit the game in such way, such imposed tweak would play poorly in megamod combos. I can't help but wandering is this mod had something to do with messed spell slots and progression  of some NPC in some posts I stumbled upon... 

Unlikely.  Spell progression tables are determined by class and kit.  The (unresolved) issue I saw in the other thread was that spell progression was different for CHARNAME than for NPCs with the same class and kit.

Yeah, it is far fetched, I admit. I'm not even sure he had this kit installed. But seeing how this kit alters single mage kits and she is original dual classed character changed/tweaked/imported ? to single mage gave me a pause...



#16 Ishad Nha

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 09:07 PM

Simplest solution is to make the items unusable by specialist Mage's kits, then make sure you don't have a single-class generalist Mage in your party. Make sure that you have generalist Mages who are dual class or multiclass, that will get the Druid items excluded under the class offsets: 1Eh through 21h.
(Fine print: get the items excluded unless they are normally allowed to use them as part of their other class(es).)
(Fine print: the solution is based upon the Druidic Sorceror being the only type of Sorceror in the party... Sorcerors use the standard slate of Mage items and they can't dual-class or multiclass.)

Now I am going to have to take a while to understand the files...


Edited by Ishad Nha, 21 January 2016 - 09:31 PM.


#17 agb1

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 09:44 PM

Is it possible instead of patching all items' usability flags to instead use a script to check equipped items on any creature with the kit and then remove any items that are inappropriate or apply a stat penalty until the player removes it?

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#18 Ishad Nha

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 12:03 AM

You would probably need to have one trigger, eg "0x407F HasItemEquiped(S:ResRef*,O:Object*)" for each forbidden item. Then you might need one action, eg "9 DropItem(S:Object*,P:Location*)" for dropping each forbidden item. I guess that the author originally intended this simpler approach but could not pull it off.

 

Final result was that each forbidden item has a script! There are 107 of them.

Example below is Blun01bcs:

Spoiler

 

Greenhorn may have been seeing effects like this:
"Signature:
Version:
Type: Bonus wizard spells (42)
Target: Self (1)
Power: 0
# spells to add: -2
Spell levels: ( Level 4(3) )
Timing mode: Instant/Permanent until death (1)"

but if you keep reading you see:
"Resource type: Spell (1)
Parent resource: SPDMMEM.SPL (Charisma Bonus)
Resource flags: ( No flags set )
Impact projectile: Unknown - 0
Source item slot: Unknown - 4294967295
Variable name: "

Not too sure what is happening here myself.


Edited by Ishad Nha, 22 January 2016 - 05:23 PM.


#19 Ishad Nha

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Posted 22 January 2016 - 11:40 PM

Final result was that each forbidden item has a script! There are around 107 of them.

In my version of BG2:
Scripts to stop Mages using Druid items, they seem not to work.
I am left wondering what items the DS can use? He can't equip/use most Mage items. He can use bullets but not a sling? He can use Druid items.

If you want the DS to use all Mage items and some Druid items, give him the item exclusion of an Invoker, and then keep the altered Druid items in the Override folder.

Basis of SPCL915, the Use Any Item HLA for Thieves, it is based upon Effect #302 (0x302) Item: Can Use Any Item [302].
It seems the effect can't be hacked to be useful here, it's all or nothing.

"Effect #302 (0x302) Item: Can Use Any Item [302].
Parameter #1: Irrelevant
Parameter #2: Constant Value
Description:
The targeted creature(s) can use any item.
The Constant Value parameter should be set to 1.
The effect modifies stat 191."

Modifying Stat 191 is something that I know nothing about.



#20 Greenhorn

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:02 AM

Final result was that each forbidden item has a script! There are around 107 of them.

Indeed : 

 

Version v1.5 makes the painful script overwrites which hose all the NPC scripts as an optional component. I recommend you
don't install that component. Unless Tatmaster comes back and asks it to be removed. (Remember, I just packaged the kit, I
didn't write it!)

But they mess NPC scripts, kill their romances and generally  they are very bad news: 

 

v1.9 A couple changes. First, I've bypassed the useless scripting component I recommended nobody use. It's still there for the die-hard purists, it just won't ask you to install it without altering the .tp2. In compensation, I've added a component that alters all Druid-use items to be usable by sorcerers. Since the game can't specify between DS and plain Sorcs, you'll either have to use your own discretion when Sorcerer NPCs are along, or enjoy the munchkin aspect.