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Jarl's conflict with Sandrah


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#1 -Jourin-

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:53 AM

Roxanne or anyone,

 

What specifically is the conflict between Jarl's BGT Adventure Pack 0.61 and Sandrah NPC 1.11?

 

Can I use a console command to address the issue?

 

I don't want to miss anything Sandrah quest, but I do have Jarl's loaded.  I don't have any other mod that conflicts with Sandrah NPC.

 

Sorry that I can't log in, my account is locked.

 

Appreciate the help

 

Thanks!



#2 Greenhorn

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:41 PM

Roxanne or anyone,

 

What specifically is the conflict between Jarl's BGT Adventure Pack 0.61 and Sandrah NPC 1.11?

 

Can I use a console command to address the issue?

 

I don't want to miss anything Sandrah quest, but I do have Jarl's loaded.  I don't have any other mod that conflicts with Sandrah NPC.

 

Sorry that I can't log in, my account is locked.

 

Appreciate the help

 

Thanks!

 

SandrahNPC is incompatible with Jarl's Adventure pack (JA#BGT_AdvPack), as this mod replaces/renames some
vanilla non-joinable NPCs which are triggers for Sandrah quests
 

Sounds like the bad idea to mix those two, as autor of Sandrah explicitly stated, and BWS conflict warnings as well. Don't know the details though...



#3 Greenhorn

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:42 PM

It appears that kind and helpful advice of refreshing the page in case of stuck up of sending the post ( which is more and more frequent lately ) isn't such a good idea after all... :lol:


Edited by Greenhorn, 28 January 2016 - 02:51 PM.


#4 Greenhorn

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:42 PM

deleted


Edited by Greenhorn, 28 January 2016 - 02:43 PM.


#5 -Jourin-

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:50 PM

Greenhorn:  Thanks for the reply.

 

I was aware of the warnings, but I like Jarl's (especially since I help translate into English) and so far really like Sandrah and I want to play both.  This sounds like it can be fixed via the console by changing some variable.  I would like to know the details of the conflict and if it can be fixed via console or how to adjust.



#6 Roxanne

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:51 PM

Roxanne or anyone,

 

What specifically is the conflict between Jarl's BGT Adventure Pack 0.61 and Sandrah NPC 1.11?

 

Can I use a console command to address the issue?

 

I don't want to miss anything Sandrah quest, but I do have Jarl's loaded.  I don't have any other mod that conflicts with Sandrah NPC.

 

Sorry that I can't log in, my account is locked.

 

Appreciate the help

 

Thanks!

 

 

Sounds that kind and helpful advice of refreshing the page in case of stuck up of sending the post ( which is more and more frequent lately ) isn't such a good idea after all... :lol:

I had identified a number of those in the past and those I found have been changed to work independently. However I cannot guarantee that I found all of them - chances are that you may be lucky not to run into any difficulties as a large number of Sandrah's quests only trigger with specific party NPCs.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#7 -Jourin-

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:19 PM

Roxanne,

 

Thank you for the encouraging news :clap:  Can you tell me which non-joinable PCs trigger Sandrah quests? Especially any associated with Jarl's Adventure Pack.  Is it Svlast and Pilar?  I will then test to see what if any conflicts exist and give you feedback (Might be awhile at the rate I play).  I know you have withdrawn support for this Beta so I won't ask you to fix anything.

 

Thanks!



#8 Roxanne

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:04 PM

Roxanne,

 

Thank you for the encouraging news :clap:  Can you tell me which non-joinable PCs trigger Sandrah quests? Especially any associated with Jarl's Adventure Pack.  Is it Svlast and Pilar?  I will then test to see what if any conflicts exist and give you feedback (Might be awhile at the rate I play).  I know you have withdrawn support for this Beta so I won't ask you to fix anything.

 

Thanks!

I am still fixing things here and also I would fix it for EET to avoid it if I can.. The reason I cannot provide more detail is this:

Sandrah assigns DVs matching the creatures names (if unique and not yet existing in the game) to a large number of non-joinable lesser NPCs, some of them have not even a dialogue. When you See("DVxx") or a close Range(....) something is triggered. I have used that to have triggers in the middle of areas or randomly not at the very moment you entered an area.

When I did some later testing I found that some events did not happen and investigating them I found that the trigger NPC had been replaced by a strawman called J#DVxx, which I could trace down to Jarl's mod. Is Pilar the one in the first Baldur Town area? If yes, it is fixed. Svlast I do not use.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#9 subtledoctor

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 09:19 PM

I have to say, I don't completely understand... if Jarl's mod mostly overwrites instead of patching, can't you just install it super early in the load order? 

 

Isn't that precisely why Ascension goes so early in the order, because it overwrites a bunch of stuff?

 

EDIT - reading and comprehending more, it looks like maybe Jarl's doesn't just overwrite, it... overwrites and renames?  I.e. it is actually deleting game resources?  Ouch...


Edited by subtledoctor, 07 February 2016 - 09:21 PM.


#10 agb1

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 10:12 PM

Yes.  I'd love to know why Jarl's was written that way...  More accurately, it removes each original creature from the area file while substituting its own new creature file (which is a copy with different dialogue file from Jarl's mod), so the original creature file and dialogue files are still in the game resources (so other mods can happily patch them), but the original is no longer referenced in the game.


Edited by agb1, 07 February 2016 - 10:47 PM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#11 Roxanne

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 11:23 PM

Yes.  I'd love to know why Jarl's was written that way...  More accurately, it removes each original creature from the area file while substituting its own new creature file (which is a copy with different dialogue file from Jarl's mod), so the original creature file and dialogue files are still in the game resources (so other mods can happily patch them), but the original is no longer referenced in the game.

The Jarl vs Sandrah conflict should no longer exist in a BWS installation. As Sandrah installs after Jarl, I have taken care of those cases that were discovered so far. It is the obligation of younger beta mods to solve their problems - not for old established proven ones to change.

Sandrah's problem is to rely to a large extend on game resources (vanilla non-joinable NPCs, stores, items, scripts, spells, areas, monsters) so the mod has to be solve all issues where those resources are not available/tweaked/replaced due to other mods chosen by the player.


Edited by Roxanne, 08 February 2016 - 02:59 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#12 agb1

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:37 AM

Jarl's is expert in BWS now not because of Sandrah but because its implementation is generally incompatible with all other mods that might add content to vanilla creatures.  I do not think new mods should need to worry about vanilla creatures being tweaked away by other mods.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#13 -Jourin-

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 03:28 PM

From the BWP documentation

 

Jarl's BGT Adventure Pack:  not compatible because you would have Svlast and Pilar twice

Comment: Not really an incompatibility.  I have had NO problems.  The fact that two exist does not really impact the game since this are not joinable NPCs.  This component has some nice content that is really similar to UB and I consider it some additional unfinished business.

I would recommend install on this component.

 

For the last component that interferes with the Jaheria quest from BG1 NPC Project:  I don't install that component.  This is again similar to some UB content that interferes with BG1 NPC Content and just need to pick the one you like which is probably BG1 NPC.

I would not recommend install on this component

 

Of course this is my opinion and other people may freely disagree

 

I read Roxanne's comments in the other thread and took out Jarl's, but now reading her newer comments, I am wondering if I need to download a new Sandrah release and can use Jarl's.  Clarification please.  Since I am having run as administrator problems with windows 10, I have not yet been successful so I can still tweak my new game.



#14 Roxanne

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:34 PM

From the BWP documentation

 

Jarl's BGT Adventure Pack:  not compatible because you would have Svlast and Pilar twice

Comment: Not really an incompatibility.  I have had NO problems.  The fact that two exist does not really impact the game since this are not joinable NPCs.  This component has some nice content that is really similar to UB and I consider it some additional unfinished business.

I would recommend install on this component.

 

For the last component that interferes with the Jaheria quest from BG1 NPC Project:  I don't install that component.  This is again similar to some UB content that interferes with BG1 NPC Content and just need to pick the one you like which is probably BG1 NPC.

I would not recommend install on this component

 

Of course this is my opinion and other people may freely disagree

 

I read Roxanne's comments in the other thread and took out Jarl's, but now reading her newer comments, I am wondering if I need to download a new Sandrah release and can use Jarl's.  Clarification please.  Since I am having run as administrator problems with windows 10, I have not yet been successful so I can still tweak my new game.

By the way - UB does similar things, like destroying Pip in BG2 to replace him by mods own creature, etc

I repair those issues as I find them or get them reported but i cannot say for sure whether I found them all - and as you say, Sandrah is not the only mod affectted, there may be still more hidden issues with this type of modding.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*