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Suggest changing pickpocket punishment


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#1 Gay Lord

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 01:27 PM

Hey!  First off, thanks for the wonderful mod.  Second, thanks for the wonderful mod.  : P

 

Now, I could be mistaken, but I believe it's this mod that changes PP so that you get a -2 rep for each failed attempt.  While I think rep loss is better than NPCs simply turning red, and their neighbors, and the whole town, and... you having to reload or your game is broken, I think the rep loss is too much.

 

Killing a person only costs you 4 rep, so it seems odd that stealing is considered almost as bad.  It's odder that if you keep failing, you can be hated MORE than a murderer.  In fact, you can easily go from max rep to zero rep by failing over and over on the same person.

 

Given how much it costs to pay off the guards, given how much it costs to raise rep in temples, and given how LITTLE you get from the average person, PP doesn't seem to be worth it.  I think there should absolutely be a cap on rep loss.

 

My ideal rule would be to give a max penalty of -1 rep, per person.  No matter how much you rob Suzy, you'll only get -1 rep.  You can still get -1 rep from failing to rob Steve, and Pedro, and beggar, but each person can only damage your reputation so much.  Even -1 is high, again compared to how much it costs to raise rep, but at least it's something.

 

Or perhaps, allow a lot more chances to talk your way out of blame.  In any case, I wanted to make the suggestion, if you implement it or not, is of course up to you.



#2 agb1

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 01:59 PM

See attached dialogue script from RR's Revised Thievery component.

Attached Files


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#3 Wisp

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 02:35 PM

Killing innocents only costs you 4 rep if you are already held in low esteem. It's a sliding scale. I'm open to lowering it to -1 rep, but more complicated implementations are too complicated.

#4 Gay Lord

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 02:57 PM

See attached dialogue script from RR's Revised Thievery component.

Am I correct in assuming that if I edit the end of the file from -2 rep to -1 rep, and put the edited file into the override, that it will immediately work ingame (or will I need a new game?)?  If so, thank you!



#5 agb1

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 04:32 PM

This is WeiDU code. It would not have any effect in the override folder. You can edit it before you install the component next time.

It is possible to write a patcher to substitute this for the previous code in your current game, but it would be much easier to cheat yourself gold to bribe the temples to raise your reputation.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#6 The Imp

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 04:53 PM

but it would be much easier to cheat yourself gold to bribe the temples to raise your reputation.
Or use a Keeper program to set the reputation to a value.

Also you can set the reputation penalty to what ever you wish, so open up the 2da folder with Near Infinity, find the reputati.2da -file, and just edit the first line to be what ever you wish, "you want to get +10 reputation for killing an innocent person ?" The answer is there in the very first value after the 1, set the zero to be 100 and you are "fine". to kill an innocent person and as a bonus get a +10 reputation. :P :devil:

Edited by The Imp, 30 January 2016 - 04:54 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#7 Gay Lord

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 01:15 AM

Thank you all for your help.  I'll try to remember for my next install.



#8 Gay Lord

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:49 PM

I'm doing a new BWP install.

 

Is anyone willing to explain the file's contents to me?  I could just go in and replace all the -2 with -1 and call it a day.  But I'm trying to understand all the lines near the end of the file.

  IF ~~ THEN DO ~ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(11)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(10) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(10)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(9) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(9)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(8) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(8)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(7) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(7)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(6) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(6)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(5) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(5)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(4) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(4)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(3) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(3)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(2) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(2)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(1) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
  IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(1)~ DO ~SetNumTimesTalkedTo(0) ReputationInc(-2) SetGlobal("RR#STLN","LOCALS",10) SetDialogue("RR#PPF0")~ EXIT
END

I don't understand why the NumTimesTalkedTo seems to go down.  Shouldn't it go up?  If I changed one of the lines to -1, and the rest to 0, would that make it so you'd only take a rep penalty once?  Should I change NumTimesTalkedTo #11 or #1?  Or will it make no difference since the header gives the penalty?



#9 Wisp

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

You would need to change all -2 into -1. The NumTimesTalkedTo thing is done because many NPCs use that to track quest progression and stuff, and if you have an NPC increment it (it is automatic every time dialogue is initiated) by running the failed-theft dialogue, you get bugs.


Edited by Wisp, 10 February 2016 - 12:38 PM.


#10 Gay Lord

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 03:48 PM

You would need to change all -2 into -1.

Okay, thanks!



#11 Gay Lord

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:03 AM

So after playing, I find that even -1 rep loss is too much.  If you fail enough against someone they will stop speaking to you completely, which means you can no longer do quests, get rewards, or do anything else with them. Thus, losing dialog options with an NPC seems more than punishment enough, and any rep loss is overkill.  I've modified the relevant file to eliminate rep loss, provided here.  Anyone wanting to use it, just replace the mod file BEFORE installing.  And of course, I cast my vote to Wisp to make this change in the mod proper.

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#12 Salk

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 04:53 AM

If you remove even a minimal rep loss for stealing then really, what would the punishment be?

 

I am not against changing from -2 to -1 though.


Edited by Salk, 04 January 2017 - 05:03 AM.


#13 The Imp

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Posted 04 January 2017 - 05:50 AM

If you remove even a minimal rep loss for stealing then really, what would the punishment be?
Well, by default the guard that is summoned asks you to bribe him. Don't, you get your butt handed to you or you suffer reputation loss for killing them. Do and you loose the bribe. Also there's no charisma checks. Have you ever stolen from a person ? In real life ... I have more than 20 times and I have not been lynched for that.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.




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