14 replies to this topic

[subtledoctor]

I'm pretty sure it gives the APR bonus for proficiency to enemies - at least, to those enemies with proficiencies. (SCS helps with that IIRC.)

But the level 7/13 bonuses are removed from wspatck.2da and added to warrior CLAB files. So those would only added for the PC at level-up, or for NPCs, when added to the party and in subsequent level-ups.

However, most level 7+ enemies already have this factored into the APR set for the .cre file. I think. So everything should be fine. I think.

[Mike1072]

I think it's just supposed to fix the "bug" where only warriors gain extra attacks per round from specializing in weapons.  Without this, swashbucklers who specialize in a melee weapon get the +1 to hit and +2 to damage that warriors would receive, but they do not get the +1/2 attack per round.

 

Without mods, I think swashbucklers are the only non-warriors allowed to place more than 1 point into a weapon.  (I could be forgetting a kit.)  Most enemies in the game don't use the BG2 proficiency system, but they may have points in the BG1 weapon categories instead.

 

This component probably only applies to the BG2 proficiencies, so it wouldn't do much for enemies in the game, but it's not really doing that much for you either, so I wouldn't worry about the balance.

 

Edit: I think I'm thinking about a different component.

Edited by Mike1072, 04 February 2016 - 04:44 PM.

[The Imp]

Without mods, I think swashbucklers are the only non-warriors allowed to place more than 1 point into a weapon.  

That might be so, but there's multiple NPCs that have non legid prof points, like for example Haer'dalis. It's fixed and not fixed and fixed again by BG2Fixpack. And cases can be made for both scenarios.

[subtledoctor]

Actually yeah, now that I think about it, I'm not sure what OP is talking about. My comments were in reference to "Taimon's WSPATCK for all" which is a component of theBigg's Tweak Pack. Not ToBEx. (And I was specifically referring to the "all classes get APR bonuses from proficiency, only warriors get bonuses from level" subcomponent.)

[Mike1072]

Actually yeah, now that I think about it, I'm not sure what OP is talking about. My comments were in reference to "Taimon's WSPATCK for all" which is a component of theBigg's Tweak Pack. Not ToBEx. (And I was specifically referring to the "all classes get APR bonuses from proficiency, only warriors get bonuses from level" subcomponent.)

 
These are the descriptions from the mods.  Ignore that my comments are inside the quote block because the forum software is being dumb.
 

ToBEx:


-----990 Weapon Specialisation Number of Attacks Mod [C, T]
(identical to tb#tweaks)
 
Modifies the application of weapon specialisation-associated number of attacks bonuses described by WSPATCK.2DA
Specifically, all non-monk classes receive such a bonus based on their average level
Originally, ranger, paladin, and fighter classes received such a bonus based on their fighter level, while other non-monk classes received no bonus
Calculation of such a bonus for the monk class is unchanged
 
Options:
-0: disabled
-1: enabled
 

And tb#tweaks:


This component will give attack per round bonuses to all characters according to WSPATCK.2da. You can choose to do this in the following manners:

• "Always": full bonuses for all characters (overpowered)
• "Only for ** and up": one ApR for all non-specialized characters, full bonuses for those at least specialized (making specialization worthwhile for swashbucklers and nerfing not specialized warriors).
• "Everybody gets ApR from proficiency, only Warriors from level": Fighters/Rangers/Paladins/Barbarians get half an attack per round at 7^th and 13^th level; everybody gets half an attack if Specialized and (if one of the "True Grandmastery" patches are installed) an additional attack if Grand Master.

I was describing option #3. It sounds like TobEx includes option #1, which gives non-warriors the level-dependent attacks per round at levels 7 and 13 in addition to bonuses based on specialization. I don't know how that would affect enemies who are monsters rather than clerics/mages/etc.

Edited by Mike1072, 05 February 2016 - 06:04 PM.

[Greenhorn]

Is there a possibility to allow non warriors characters to benefit from weapon specialization and grandmastery ( extra half and full attack, respectively ) without altering anything else? That 3th option was bugged for me last time I played it, everyone was getting benefits, only my PC not. Maybe installing custom kit at the end of installation was wrong move but still...

Edited by Greenhorn, 06 February 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[subtledoctor]

That 3th option was bugged for me last time I played it, everyone was getting benefits, only my PC not. Maybe installing custom kit at the end of installation was wrong move but still...

Yes, adding a mod kit after installing the tweak is what caused your problem. As I said above, that component patches CLAB files, and if you run it before installing a kit, the kit's CLAB file naturally won't exist to be patched. So it's not a matter of "but still..." rather it's a matter of install order, which you should know is important. It works fine if you do it right.

(Where's the emoji for stern finger-wagging?)

Edited by subtledoctor, 06 February 2016 - 06:46 PM.

[Greenhorn]

That 3th option was bugged for me last time I played it, everyone was getting benefits, only my PC not. Maybe installing custom kit at the end of installation was wrong move but still...

Yes, adding a mod kit after installing the tweak is what caused your problem. As I said above, that component patches CLAB files, and if you run it before installing a kit, the kit's CLAB file naturally won't exist to be patched. So it's not a matter of "but still..." rather it's a matter of install order, which you should know is important. It works fine if you do it right.

(Where's the emoji for stern finger-wagging?)

This will do just as good :   I deserve it 

This one is excessive:   ( Never seen it till now ) 

But seriously, thanks for info. Glad to know that it works, hopefully exactly like I want it. 

[subtledoctor]

Ha ha, yeah the fish one works

Also, since readers of this forums now fall into either of two camps, just a clarification: the mod components we're discussing here are not meant to be used with EE games. For the EEs, I've created a new mod that does the same thing: google "APR on Spec," it's headquartered in the Beamdog forums and the download it from GitHub.

[The Imp]

I've created a new mod that does the same thing: google "APR on Spec," it's headquartered in the Beamdog forums and the download it from GitHub.

Hmm.    

Why not just link to it ... Google is not your friend, it's the one without the -r- in it.

[subtledoctor]

I was writing on my phone, and these forums are all kind of busted when using mobile browsers (cf. Mike's problems with quoted text above) so I couldn't post a link.  But, I just googled it and my mod is the top result...

[The Imp]

What's so hard about adding a URL to a forum with a phone, copy the address from somewhere and just code the start, end and text in between    :

 [url=https://books.google.fi/books?id=v508AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=APR+on+Spec,&source=bl&ots=dzJS7-NJK4&sig=ujPRywjRW5BWJ9jXrwDh-wseWuE&hl=fi&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPqoL_2-bKAhXD6HIKHZRlB-MQ6AEIRTAF#v=onepage&q=APR on Spec,&f=false]Hmm. [/url] 

[@vGur]

So... What mod should works better for enemies? ToBEx or Bigg's? Interesing to hear people that actually used them on long distances.

 

p.s ToBEx have wanderful "Only real attacks have attack animation" component, but i don't want to see how enemie stay for 6 seconds and do nothing betweem attacks, so more attacks is MUST HAVE for me. 

[The Imp]

p.s ToBEx have wanderful "Only real attacks have attack animation" component, but i don't want to see how enemie stay for 6 seconds and do nothing betweem attacks, so more attacks is MUST HAVE for me. 

Nearly every enemy in the game has more than 1 attack per round naturally, and it doesn't change unless they have a BG2 proficiency ... the game also features a BG1 profs, which the monsters use extensively ... you just can't select to use any of them in game, but they are there.