Jump to content


Photo

Restore modified spells


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 06:16 AM

Hi All:

 

Some modder mess up some spells.  I would like to restore one spell to its original format.  I looked it up in Near Infinity, but I did not understand the information or determine how the spells know the amount of damage they do.  Also downloaded DLTCEP, but I need a tutorial for that.  What I need is detailed information or a place where I can find detailed instructions about modifying spells.  Isearched and found some information, but it is a bit too advanced for my current knowledge.

 

As an example.  A Fireball does 1D6 damage per level up to 10D6.  Where is this information in the .spl file?

 

Thanks

 

Tom

 

 



#2 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 3564 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 06:22 AM

Hi All:

 

Some modder mess up some spells.  I would like to restore one spell to its original format.  I looked it up in Near Infinity, but I did not understand the information or determine how the spells know the amount of damage they do.  Also downloaded DLTCEP, but I need a tutorial for that.  What I need is detailed information or a place where I can find detailed instructions about modifying spells.  Isearched and found some information, but it is a bit too advanced for my current knowledge.

 

As an example.  A Fireball does 1D6 damage per level up to 10D6.  Where is this information in the .spl file?

 

Thanks

 

Tom

You can more easily restore the spell itself from the backup folder of the mod/mod-component that tweaked it. Copy it from there to your override and you will have the version before it was changed.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#3 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:07 AM

Hi Roxanne:

 

Thanks for the information.  I will see if I can find the mod.

 

Tom



#4 Roxanne

Roxanne

    Modder

  • Member
  • 3564 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:21 AM

Hi Roxanne:

 

Thanks for the information.  I will see if I can find the mod.

 

Tom

Look for the hints here in the forum how to use changelog.tool

That tool tells you exactly which mod and which component has tweaked a file (e.g. a spelll) and you can then find the previous version in the corresponding backup - this is a way that helps very often to repair some issue in your game.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#5 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:30 AM

Hi Roxanne:

 

I found the spell. It was not replaced.  My guess is the original spell was altered.  There is no component in the mod that says this altering will be done.  Just another hidden change.

 

I think a will create another game on another computer.  Without the suspected mod.  Then get the file that way.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

Tom



#6 agb1

agb1
  • Member
  • 1623 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 10:59 AM

Tom, which spells do you want to restore?


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#7 subtledoctor

subtledoctor
  • Modder
  • 656 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 12:23 PM

I thought even patching an original spell should create a copy of the unchanged version in the mod's backup folder... no?

There should not be a way for a spell to be altered in a way that you can't track the alteration.

Mentioning which spell you're looking at specifically will help people narrow down what the issue is here...

Edited by subtledoctor, 08 February 2016 - 12:27 PM.


#8 agb1

agb1
  • Member
  • 1623 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 12:25 PM

That has been my experience, yes.  It's possible to instruct WeiDU to do a copy without backup, but I'm not aware of any spell mods that do so.  That's one of the reasons why I am wondering which spells Tom wants to restore.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#9 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:58 PM

Hi all:

 

In my old days, Skull Trap went to 20 levels.  After you memorized it, the description told you it was limited to 20 levels.  The current Skull Trap SPW1313.spl does not say that.  I know the spell was changed by ...BGII - SoA\Stratagems\spell\skull_trap.tpa.  I am fairly sure no other mod altered this spell as the only other place it was found when I searched my game was in GENERALIZED_BIFFING.

 

Here is the code:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
DEFINE_ACTION_FUNCTION skull_trap BEGIN
 
OUTER_SPRINT ~new~ @209
OUTER_SPRINT ~old~ @210
 
 
LAF edit_spell STR_VAR spell=WIZARD_SKULL_TRAP editstring=~delete_ability=>"ability_min_level>12"~ END
 
MAKE_PATCH
   substitute_description=>~"%old%"=>"%new%"~
END
 
LAF edit_whatever STR_VAR file="%WIZARD_SKULL_TRAP%.spl %WIZARD_SKULL_TRAP_SCROLL%.itm" edits=patch_data END
 
 
 
END
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
I just wanted to make sure the max was 20 x 1D6 and not reduced to 10 x 1D6.  I also remember talk about 20 x 1D6 being too powerful so it was going to be reduced.  Since this version does not state the limit, I wanted to find what the limit was.
 
Tom


#10 agb1

agb1
  • Member
  • 1623 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 02:06 PM

From stratagems\tra\english\english.tra, I see:

 

@209=~per level of the caster (to a maximum of 12d6)~
@210=~per level of the caster~
 
These are used as the old and new text for the description patching in the code above.  So it appears that SCS patches Skull Trap to cap at 12d6.
 
You should find a pre-SCS-patch version of the spell in the folder stratagems_external\backup\stratagems\<<component number>>\ 

Edited by agb1, 08 February 2016 - 02:08 PM.

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#11 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:27 PM

Hi agb1:

 

Way too many files in ...stratagems_external\backup\stratagems\<<component number>>\ . I found SPW1314.spl but not SPW1313,spl. I have a 7zip backup of BGII - SoA.  Extracted that to a dummy folder.  Use Near Infinity to search that program for skull.  Found the file I needed (the description is slightly different and that from Stratagems) and copied it to my game overide folder.  Well I'll se if that works in a few hours.

 

Thanks,

 

Tom

 

 


#12 agb1

agb1
  • Member
  • 1623 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:32 PM

You must not have installed SCS component 2080 then (that being the component titled "Cap damage done by Skull Trap at 12d6"), so the code you quoted earlier was not actually applied to your game.


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#13 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 08 February 2016 - 06:14 PM

Hi agb1:

 

You are right.  The spell I put in the override was not good.  It was a Skull Trap but not the correct one.  It only did 2D6 damage for a 7th level character.  I checked out the comments from the game.  Usually I am too engrossed in the fight to do this.  Both the Fireball and Skull Trap spells cause the same damage.  For a 7th level character each has 5 attacks which is correct.  The problem is that each attack usually does between 12 and 16 points of damage.  That is more than 1D6 per level.  So I guess I will leave good enough alone.

 

Thanks for the help.  At least I learned a bit more about programming.

 

Tom



#14 Ithildur

Ithildur
  • Member
  • 179 posts

Posted 08 February 2016 - 11:58 PM

The problem is that each attack usually does between 12 and 16 points of damage.

The obvious question here is, how much dmg are you expecting it to do? i.e. what level are the casters that are using the spell? If the save is made, 16 dmg is quite average unless the spell is cast by someone well past lvl 11 or so.

 

If the skulltrap cap component of SCS was not installed (it's a component you're clearly presented with the choice to skip as optional - very unfair to claim the mod is 'messing up' the spell), then it's either another mod or... you actually do have the unmodded version of the spell, just seeing low rolls/lots of saves being made/cast by casters that aren't extremely high level, etc.


Edited by Ithildur, 09 February 2016 - 12:04 AM.


#15 The Imp

The Imp

    Not good, see EVIL is better. You'll LIVE.

  • Member
  • 5148 posts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:19 AM

I thought even patching an original spell should create a copy of the unchanged version in the mod's backup folder... no?
There should not be a way for a spell to be altered in a way that you can't track the alteration.
Well, if the .spl file is from the .bif file, there's no need to create a backup for weidu to do it's job. And yes, you can track that down... with change-log. Yes, it works with biffed file, the alteration is marked by the replacing of a file without making a backup. Cause it's already in a .bif... So restoring it is just a job of restoring the library backup(let's assume it's the chitin.key).

So EVERYone needs to stop being an idiot and assume that finding a file in the mods backup folder is a must if the file is changed. It isn't so.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#16 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:13 AM

Hi Ithildur:

 

My apologies for not stating things in a much clearer way.

 

The Skull Trap cap of SCS was installed.  Read the ReadMe file and aside from editing the tp2 file did not see how to control adding or not adding changes to the spell.

 

I have a 7th level bard casting a 3rd level spell with additional attacks for each level above the 3rd level.  So there should be one attack for the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th levels.  Or 5 attacks.  Each attack is 1D6 damage.  On average, each attack is 3.5 HP.  So on average for five attacks, there should be 5*3.5 or 17.5 HP of damage.  That is a range of 5 to 30 HP of damage.  As stated above on average each attack does from 12 to 16 HP of damage.  Which on average adds up to 60 to 80 HP of damage for the spell.  My last attack actually did 83 HP of damage.  

 

You would think this would kill everything.  Wrong!  For example, there were 9 hobgoblins in the last group.  Cast Fireball and Skull trap.  The screen showed that there was 62+83 HP of damage from the spells.  Well, 5 hobgoblins died and 4 hobgoblin captains lived.  It took a few more major hits to kill them.  Even with the best saves, that is 72 HP of damage.  Some super hobgoblins! One did drink a potion, but the other three did not.  Per NI, hobgoblin captains have 40 HP.

 

So right now my guess is that what shows at the bottom of the screen and what is actually happening are probably not related.

 

Well whatever is going on, my guess is the result of the mods not being "validated and verified" properly.

 

I realize the original game also had many problems.  These current games have a large number of functions going on at the same time so it only takes one BIT to be incorrect and mess things up.  My game is now between 27 and 28 GB.  That is 231,928,233,984 to 240,518,168,576 bits.  It is hard to believe that all is perfect. (We are only human!)  But I am amazed and impressed that the game works as well as it does.

 

Tom


Edited by tomkaz, 09 February 2016 - 06:33 AM.


#17 agb1

agb1
  • Member
  • 1623 posts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:56 AM

Doesn't Fireball grant a Save vs Breath for half damage?


BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#18 Ithildur

Ithildur
  • Member
  • 179 posts

Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:05 AM

Ok... I think by 'attacks' you mean dice rolls tomkaz...? Spells like fireball/skull trap do not have 'attacks'.

 

I'm not sure if I'm comprehending your post correctly as you're using rather unconventional terminology, but I think the problem here is that you have a very, very different understanding of how spells work in this game than the way it actually does. In your example you have a level 7 caster casting skull trap. Each hobgoblin within range of the spell (keep in mind skulltrap doesn't have a very large area of effect) takes 1d6 (average 3.5) x 7 dmg (average 24.5) from the spell, half of that if he made the save, which is about 12 dmg.

 

Sounds like (based on your description it's not clear whether the fireball was cast by someone else or the same guy, I'm guessing same guy) the next round the bard then cast fireball. That's another 7d6 (average 3.5x7) fire damage. Exactly the same as the skulltrap, on average, in this example.

 

Whether the spells were cast in the same round or over 2 rounds, the total damage is going to be around 24 dmg on average if both saves are made (quite possible if a hobgob is lucky enough). If he saves vs one but fails one he takes about 36 dmg on average; if he fails both then he probably dies after taking 48 dmg unless he chugged a potion in between the two spells OR if the rolls were much lower than average (which is entirely possible). A hobgob captain that has 40 HPs certainly could survive these two spells cast by a lvl 7 character.

 

I hope that helps; it sounds like you're expecting the hobgob to eat anywhere between 70-140 dmg between the 2 spells, which is probably not going to happen at lvl 7. The worlds unluckliest hobgoblin that failed BOTH saves vs MAXIMUM possible damage of the 2 spells cast by a lvl 7 caster would take 42+42 dmg. In that case, yeah, he's dead, but that's one heck of a bad day for him, good day for you; the odds of this happening are mathematically extremely low.

 

As for SCS's component that caps skulltrap dmg at 12d6, it currently has no effect even if installed in your particular example since you're taling about a lvl 7 caster; you won't see it impact your game until you're dealing with casters that are ABOVE lvl 12, whether yours or enemies.

 

Choosing to install or not install this option is very clearly laid out; you do NOT need to edit tp2's or whatever you're doing, as SCS will ask you during installation whether you want the component installed or not if you're installing manually.

 

If you're using BWS to install, then you have to check or uncheck the corresponding box next to the listed components of SCS (there are quite a few, it's possible your tired eyes didn't see it) in the mod selection menu/screen, which I think you know about already.

 

Hope that helps clarify things.


Edited by Ithildur, 09 February 2016 - 07:53 AM.


#19 tomkaz

tomkaz
  • Member
  • 992 posts

Donator

Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:47 AM

Hi Ithildur:

 

Thanks for the explanation.  I check it out.  I also found out why I got confused.  The time I check the numbers there were five monsters and at level 7, the damage was to be five 1D6 dice rolls.  After reading your post, check it out with gnolls and this time looked at all the details.  I assumed that each monster got the same damage.  That was wrong!  What happens is each monster gets five time 1D6 damage, but the damage is calculated individually and listed individually.  So a level 7 character can cast a spell and each monster takes damage based on a different set of dice rolls.  With five 1D6 dice rolls, it is possible (not probable) that one monster could take 5 HP damage while the other could take 30 HP damage.  

 

Thanks for you post, that cleared up a lot.

 

I will now check to see what Stratagems components I installed.  I think I installed about 90 of them.  Altogether I think I installed about 900 components so there is a lot I installed that I am not full aware of.  After you fix the conflicts with BWS, I get some components I did not expect.  Time to check my WeiDU.log file.

 

Thanks again for your help and explanation,

 

Tom