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Request for megamod players


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#1 subtledoctor

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:59 PM

I have a request for player who have every mod under the sun installed. I need to find as many instances of Elven Chain that I can. Including drow variants (the lightweight ones that allow spellcasting). I can find the ones in the vanilla game, and the ones in IWDEE. But I want to be able to capture all possible variants.

My goal is, to create a list of all instances of Elven Chain and patch them such that Archers can wear it.

So if anyone has a game install with a ton of mods, and you don't mind spending ~20 minutes running a search in NI or DLTCEP, could you post here the "xxx.itm" filename of every version you can find?

In exchange, I will give you archers in Elven Chain.

Thanks folks! :)

#2 Mike1072

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:41 PM

These are the ones we have flagged in IR as elven.
// vanilla
chan12       Elven Chain Mail
chan13       Elven Chain +1
chan14       Sylvan Chain +2
chan15       Melodic Chain +3
chan16       Bladesinger Chain +4
chan19       Aslyferund Elven Chain +5
clolth       Dark Elven Chain
dwchan01     Drow Elven Chain +3
dwchan02     Drow Adamantine Chain +5
dwplat01  *  Drow Full Plate +5
 
// mod
a!bchan1     Caster's Chain
bsingchn     Mirathar
c2chan01     Incarnadine Elven Chain
chandrw      Drow Chainmail +2
cmarq02      Elven Chain Mail +3
cmarq12      Elven Chain Mail +1
cmchan01     Chainmail +4
cmplat03  *  Plate Mail +5
cmtuch01     Elven Chain +2
cota         Harmony
dsjearm      Jet'laya's Chainmail
echan01      Elven Chainmail +2
echan02      Underdark Mail +1
elfmail      Elven Mithril +5
elvarmx      Armour of the High Forest
fwchan02     Melodic Chain +3
fwplat04     Death Knight's Armor
gcmch01      Elven Chainmail of the Hand +3
illas04      Sylvan Chain +2
kimchain     Elvish Dwarven Chain mail
kiyoarm1     Verdant Vigil
kiyoarm2     Verdant Vigilant +2
kiyoarm3     Verdant Vigilante +4
kiyowed1     Bladesinger Chain +4
mau006       Mark of the Magus
ntchan04     Elven Chainmail of Sorcery
rr#chn01     Drow Chain Mail
s!chan02     Eternal Melody +5
scal04       Sea-elven Scale +2
sgchan2      Celendal's armour
tzchan01     Elven Chainmail +1
u#chan01     Adamantine Chain
u#chan07     Elven Chainmail of the Hand +3
ucmgch01     Drow Elven Chain +3
ucmgch02     Drow Adamantine Chain +5
zyplatn8     Bladesinger Chain +4 ????????
 
// unconfirmed
chands06     elven chainmail +1 (elven chain mail)
drowchn1     drow adamantite mesh armor +1 (drow mesh armour)
drowchn2     drow adamantite mesh armor +2 (drow mesh armour)
drowchn3     drow adamantite mesh armor +3 (drow mesh armour)
efml01       
pchan        
AAITM107     Drow Adamantine Chain +5
AAITM127     Incarnadine Elven Chain
BGSX10       Fruit Armor
KOVAWED1     Bladesinger Chain +4

These ones are flagged as elven in BG2 Tweaks but not in IR (deliberately except for elfchan and kaychai, items that IR is unaware of).
 
// BG2 Tweaks
cmchan02     Mithril Chain Mail +4
cmchan05     Chainmail +2
elfchan      Elven Chain Mail of the Hand +3 (Chain Mail)
kaychai      Kaylessa's Armor +3 (Chain Mail)
ntchan06     chainmail of the firewine (elven chainmail)
r#aspchn     Loren's Chain +5


#3 The Imp

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:54 PM

From Classic Adventure mod that aren't in the above:
tcarmor5    Elven Chain +2
tcechan     Elven Chain +1
tcrihar1    Elven Chainmail +2, 'Songs Shield'
tcrihar2    Elven Chainmail +2, 'Songs Shield'
tcrivarm    Elven Chain Mail 

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#4 subtledoctor

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 04:28 PM

Awesome.  That's so helpful!



#5 Linthar

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 07:08 PM

Adding the ones I see from my install that aren't in either of the above the following show up when I search for items named Elven Chain

 

CMTCH02.ITM - Elven Chain +2
CMTCH03.ITM - Elven Chainmail of the Hand + 3
CMTCH05.ITM - Elven Chain +3

Edited by Linthar, 09 February 2016 - 07:09 PM.


#6 agb1

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:18 PM

More possibly:

ESXCHA.ITM - Chain Mail of Eilistraee
FWCHAN03.ITM - Suldanessellar Chain
RR#CHN01.ITM - Drow Chain Mail
SOAITM01.ITM - Mecorima's Chain Mail

BiG World Fixpack (community collection of mod fixes and compatibility patches, with user-friendly cross-platform script)

 

BiG World Setup (tool to automate best-practice installation of Infinity Engine mods on Windows, with conflict analysis)

Latest version:    https://bitbucket.or.../get/master.zip


#7 Mike1072

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:18 PM

More possibly:

ESXCHA.ITM - Chain Mail of Eilistraee
FWCHAN03.ITM - Suldanessellar Chain
RR#CHN01.ITM - Drow Chain Mail
SOAITM01.ITM - Mecorima's Chain Mail

For what it's worth, IR knows about these. It classifies rr#chn01 as elven (it's listed above) but the other three as non-elven. esxcha is given penalty-free spellcasting and thievery, however.

#8 subtledoctor

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:37 PM

Cool.  If anyone's interested, here is my (simplistic, yet effective) code:

 

Spoiler



#9 Creepin

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:32 AM

subtledoctor, I'm far from being capable of pulling tricks as such myself, but isn't it usual practice to check every item present to see if it is an armor with a flag "could be used by mages" set and apply your patch if true? This way you will incorporate even mods yet unwritten or not known to you.

Edited by Creepin, 10 February 2016 - 12:33 AM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#10 Roxanne

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:47 AM

subtledoctor, I'm far from being capable of pulling tricks as such myself, but isn't it usual practice to check every item present to see if it is an armor with a flag "could be used by mages" set and apply your patch if true? This way you will incorporate even mods yet unwritten or not known to you.

Right, only by this you can assure that you really corrupt 100% of the mods you target at, without needing to pay any respect to why a modmaker has constructed his/her NPC's item the way they did (like all the personal NPC items in the list above that will be tweaked)


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#11 The Imp

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:31 AM

Right, only by this you can assure that you really corrupt 100% of the mods you target at...
Hmm, is this corruption a bad thing ? Cause I can see the Level 1 NPCs NPC components could use this. See for example the NPC now can use the armor when you make it an Archer, instead of the wookeybear it was kitted before as. Yeah, the item doesn't need to be separately coded to match the 24 cases that only this sort of NPC character can use it as there's a better way to do it too in the new engine. But needing to resort to such measures is usually a sign that the item is OP, and the NPC is BS.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#12 Roxanne

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:48 AM

Right, only by this you can assure that you really corrupt 100% of the mods you target at...
Hmm, is this corruption a bad thing ? Cause I can see the Level 1 NPCs NPC components could use this. See for example the NPC now can use the armor when you make it an Archer, instead of the wookeybear it was kitted before as. Yeah, the item doesn't need to be separately coded to match the 24 cases that only this sort of NPC character can use it as there's a better way to do it too in the new engine. But needing to resort to such measures is usually a sign that the item is OP, and the NPC is BS.

I agree. in EET there is now a better way for NPC personal items - but it was not stated that this was the target for the tweak, the way that is apparent from the list is the intention to change mod provided items not according to the author's original intentions. But then - this is a common approach of many tweak/revision mods, they want you to play the game according to their preferred rules.


Edited by Roxanne, 10 February 2016 - 01:49 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#13 subtledoctor

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 05:03 AM

Roxanne, you often use inflammatory words like "corruption" to cast aspersions on mods and practices that you haven't investigated to any great degree. Honestly, don't you think you owe it to your fellow modders to reserve making such a harsh (and often incorrect) judgment until you see *actual* evidence of something being corrupted?

Furthermore: we are all making mods here. We are all enabling players to modify their games, and every single mod - yours included - causes the game to deviate from the vision of the game devs. Why doesn't that vision take precedence over that of modders?

Furthermore: many mods are designed to *better* realize that kind of vision. Archers are restricted to light, soft armors like leather; elven chain is described as so light and soft that it's akin to leather armor; so maybe it's an oversight that Archers can't wear elven chain. Maybe this mod *helps* realize the original vision.

Furthermore: why are we even worried about the game devs or modders? Shouldn't players be of primary concern? If a player wants to use these NPC mods, and those item mods, but their personal vision of the game world is such that Archers can wear elven chain armor, why shouldn't we give them the tools to achieve that vision?

All of which is to say, @Creepin, that your question and your idea are very good ones. That was actually my first idea. But I didn't do that because mods like IR, FPPS, BG2Tweaks etc. enable spellcasting in all armors. I could compare to thief usability, but then it would affect some really thief-only items. I spent five minute trying to come up with a suitable algorithm, and then realized, we're only talking about a couple dozen items here, let's just make a list. :)

Edited by subtledoctor, 10 February 2016 - 05:15 AM.


#14 Creepin

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:00 AM

Furthermore: why are we even worried about the game devs or modders? Shouldn't players be of primary concern?
Well damn straight to the point! I personally always was baffled by general consensus here that take modders interests over players interests, but since we have much more modders than players here on SHS I never went to any noticeable length to disrupt this weird status quo.

Edited by Creepin, 10 February 2016 - 06:03 AM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#15 Almateria

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:02 AM

I uphold my theory that it's because more people mod baldurs gate than play it.



#16 Roxanne

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 06:40 AM

Furthermore: why are we even worried about the game devs or modders? Shouldn't players be of primary concern?
Well damn straight to the point! I personally always was baffled by general consensus here that take modders interests over players interests, but since we have much more modders than players here on SHS I never went to any noticeable length to disrupt this weird status quo.

 

 

I uphold my theory that it's because more people mod baldurs gate than play it.

Players are the most concern, because it is their experience that counts in the end. And this is pretty well represented by all the bug reports received in the threads of this forum - which in the end comes back to the modders, as they have created them. And many times the issue is not the mod that created an item, script or NPC but another one that corrupted improved it.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#17 The Imp

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 07:39 AM

I uphold my theory that it's because more people mod baldurs gate than play it.
And so ? A modder can't play a game ? At least not as well as anyone else.
Players are the most concern, because it is their experience that counts in the end. And this is pretty well represented by all the bug reports received in the threads of this forum - which in the end comes back to the modders, as they have created them. And many times the issue is not the mod that created an item, script or NPC but another one that corrupted improved it.
And your mod never has any of this stuff, being a saint and all that stuff at this... how about that one Wizard Imoen you have in your mod ?
elven chain is described as so light and soft that it's akin to leather armor; so maybe it's an oversight that Archers can't wear elven chain.
Actually it's more like any other piece of cloth or garment an elf wears... as leather armor is human or even orc made and usually much more bulkier, and restrictive and all that stuff, which is why the mage can't cast spells in them.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#18 subtledoctor

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 07:59 AM

Creepin, I'm all about promoting the fun of players, however they want to play the game. If you use the Kiva & Kiyone mod, I think the mod authors vision is something like "Kiyone has elven chain armor that lets him cast spells" ... NOT "Kiyone has armor that cannot be worn by Archers." If a player wants to tick the flag that lets Archers wear Kiyone's armor, I don't think it corrupts the mod's 'vision' at all.

I also made a mod that lets you kit out Kiyone. Make him an Assassin/mage, or a Swashbuckler/mage, or if you use Song & Silence, make him a Soulknife/mage. Are those things consistent with the mod's vision? I don't know. Maybe not. But if a player wants to deviate from that vision, and you do so voluntarily knowing full well that it may cause some wonkiness in the game, then I (for one) won't judge. Have fun!

As for mod interactions leading to bug reports: if you're making a content mod, and you're writing interactions with Imoen, and you know that there are mods out there that people use to make Imoen a bard, why would you write your mod with script checks looking for Imoen being a thief? Why not write more adaptable code/dialogue that is flexible enough to handle the ways players might mod their games, instead of accusing the Bard Imoen mod of "corrupting" things?

Even worse: why write *some* code that relies on Imoen being something *different* than vanilla, (like a thief/mage) and write other code that relies on *other* game resources being 100% pure and unchanged, and then call some changes "corruption" but other changes no problem? Who gets to bless which tweaks are okay and which are "corruption?"

Roxanne seems to have taken on that job, but I for one didn't vote for her. (I would vote for Chris Avellone. :P Or actually, maybe Demivrgvs :) )

Edited by subtledoctor, 10 February 2016 - 08:11 AM.


#19 -@vGur-

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 11:26 AM

BWS team put together everything thay can, it's GREAT, but sometimes looks like human-parts glued together, not like whole person as original game was. Roxanne tried something not common, she redesigns modded content to fit it together on great scale, that desrves respect even if You woudn't vote for her, beacuse no one else doing this job. :clap:

So we shoud stop this conversation immediately, :new_bottom: before two camps start fighting. I've not used subtledoctors's mods because have my own to tweak same parts of game in differen way, thay are not compatible with each other as with tonns of other item\spell\class tweaks. Not everything meant to be compatible, as Almateria told - some mods now used only by their authors - it's OK. 

 

p.s. What really can help is the list of NPC&quest-items that should be protected from unauthorized usage roleplay wise and to avoid possible bags, like dialog-item in other hands producing non-sense dialogue or items named after proper owner continues to upgrade in hands of his killers. Drow chain on archer seems harmless :whistling:



#20 subtledoctor

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 12:37 PM

Please note, I never said Roxanne is not worthy of respect. I think her mod is creative and ambitious and that's wonderful, and I've said so on numerous occasions. It may not be to my taste, but it's absolutely worthy of respect.

But I think Roxanne has a tendency to be rude, and I wish she would return the respect that others show her. I mean I don't jump in on other people threads and leave off-topic posts crapping on other people's ideas and work. That's super trollish.

I mean, Almateria does that... but Almateria brings a certain wit and snark to it, so at least it's entertaining... :)

Edited by subtledoctor, 10 February 2016 - 12:38 PM.