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Experience points per spell casted

Experience points spell cast

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#1 Kangaax

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:19 AM

Hi all.

 

I'm not sure if I should write this here or in modding forums, I will try here.

 

I'm near to finish my second install of Baldur's Gate Trilogy not Enhanced with Big World Setup.

 

In the modules I could choose there is in particular one that catched my attemption: Installing [XP for casting Arcane Spells] [v7.1]

 

That module allows you to give experience points per spell casted. As rogues get experience from traps (I think that rule is fine because you always get experience even in real life doing things) I think a arcane/divine spellcaster should receive experience points too. I tried to google some alternative system or house rules but I didn't find anything about it so I think in a system I believe is balanced and consist looking for spells arcane/divine progresion table 20 level and adding a bonus on spells according to a main stat of 25.

 

The result is giving experience as follows:

Level 1 Experience Points: 600 

Level 2 Experience Points: 700

Level 3 Experience Points: 800

Level 4 Experience Points: 900

Level 5 Experience Points: 1000

Level 6 Experience Points: 1200

Level 7 Experience Points: 1400

Level 8 Experience Points: 1600

Level 9 Experience Points: 1800

 

So a wizard with 20 level (not focused in any school) is casting per day around 5-7 9th level spells making a total max of experience points between 9000-12600 experience points per day for that level. In level 20 we talk about millions of experience points so I think I didn't create something very unbalanced unless you see something I'm not able to see rigth now 

 

In level 20 a wizard with no inteligence bonus get this daily spells:

 

1   2    3    4    5    6   7    8   9        Total # of spellslots
 
5    5   5    5    5    4   3    3   2                  37
 
600     700     800     900     1000    1200    1400    1600    1800
 
3000    3500    4000    4500    5000    4800    4200    4800    3600
 
 
Total: 37400 experience points if a 20th wizard cast all possible spells.
 
In this webpage we can see experience proggression table: http://www.sorcerers...2/xp_tables.php
 
Level      Fighter/Barbarian       Paladin/Ranger       Mage/Specialist/Sorcerer
20           3,000,000                   3,600,000                 3,750,000
21           3,250,000                   3,900,000                 4,125,000
 
375000 experience points are needed to level from 20 to 21 so a wizard should cast full 37 spells x around 11 times to level up.
 
Do you think is too much experience what I gave to that module?
 
Kind regards.

Edited by Kangaax, 21 February 2016 - 10:21 AM.


#2 The Imp

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 01:41 PM

Well... :ermm: :devil: :ROFL: ..

 

Anyways, I would not install the component, but if I were a person that would... :ROFL: ... I would make the steps to be more ... and the 1800xp were the goal.

Level 1 Experience Points: 200  :twisted:

Level 2 Experience Points: 400

Level 3 Experience Points: 600

Level 4 Experience Points: 800

Level 5 Experience Points: 1000

Level 6 Experience Points: 1200

Level 7 Experience Points: 1400

Level 8 Experience Points: 1600

Level 9 Experience Points: 1800

 

At level 1, you need to cast 13 spells to level up to 2... with this system, in yours... it's 5. Just from spells, if in addition you kill a creatures or quests that have up to 100xp, you'll do with 4 spells. :devil:


Edited by The Imp, 21 February 2016 - 04:16 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#3 Kangaax

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 06:03 AM

Thanks for your response. Anyway I think is not overpowered because I'm playing bg1 with xan and I still have not level up afte not less than 10 encounters.

 

I'm having some other problems, sorry for posting in this topic, if prefer move it to another thread instead.

 

The issues I'm seeing are as follows:

 

1.- I'm watching my main character (PC) is a figther with speed boots and sometimes stays quiet in front of a enemy and delays all the attacks. I think is due to some items weapon speed factor revision in some mods that give weapons 5 or more points on speed factor but the enemies keep attacking as before installing any mod.

 

2.- I installed some mods which one of them allow you to raise enemies hit points (I chose +200% hp :D) and IA improves how they figth plus another mod that I set up monster respawns 90% time after resting plus improved summon mod and setting up insane difficulty you could imagine that even importing a cheated level 8 figther with +3 weapon, 94 on total stats and so on I'm having problems with defeating monsters, specially because all the bandits from first bg1 area shoot with venom arrows...I had to reset dificulty to normal level..any advice about this :D?

 

3.- I installed another mod which gave me +150% experience points on each defeating but thinking in set up the game as previously I said  but I only get 96 experience points per bandit killed. Is it normal this xp reward if it supposed to increase +150%? (I understand that the xp options were reduce and increase and I believe that increase increases the xp received)

 

4.- Another mod allow me set up percentage of gems and treasure received but I keep only looting 1 gem per defeat only if the enemy drops that treasure..

 

5.- Do you know a legal way to get a lot of money in baldur's gate saga for purchasing top magical items? Normally is very hard to get money and if you do it Gaelan steals you 20000 golden pieces in bg2 for doing nothing..

 

6.- Is top cheat duplicate vailor's helm for each character able to use it? I love that helmet specially with improved invisibility rings but I don't know if it should be a unique item because a wizard with craft magical items could do it as a piece of cake.

 

Kind regards and thanks for your support and your software!!!!!


Edited by Kangaax, 22 February 2016 - 06:23 AM.


#4 The Imp

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 06:59 AM

3. The normal BG1 bandit in BGT-weidu gives you 65xp per kit, so 96 sounds... a lot like 97.5(=65+1.5)

 

5. Quests, items, loot and stuff. There's a lots of gold to be had in BG1, just go to every map, kill everything you run into(monsters), and you'll eventually end up in about 100 000 gold pieces, easy. Gaelan... hih hihih... Irenicus will steel all your gold, so no help there ...

In BG2, you can get a 100 000 gold too, and there's a mod that help to get rid of that cause it sets the Gaelen's price to ~50 or 60k ...


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#5 Kangaax

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 12:35 PM

Thanks Imp.

 

I will keep testing full game and if it's the case I will reinstal changing difficulty :).

 

About gold issue I have the same problem with neverwinter games. You can run all the full game and you won't be able to get million of gold pices that are the prices of the handcrafted underdark wonderous items!! :D. I don't really understand why the developers create those items if in later game you are not able to adquire one :D. In that case I prefer diablo weapon system or any MMORG where you can get top items through defeating boss (I mean Kangaxx ring is top but there are other cool items I would like to purchase so finally I add gold via CLUAConsole :( )



#6 The Imp

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 07:53 PM

In diablo, the item system is totally cheese balls, the really only item you were guaranteed to gain were the quest items and those were if you had the guest in the first place.

And the random dungeon creation(or the other fancy word for random, procedural) is good on a non linear game, but in BG2, that's impossible cause you need to have the set pieces of terrain... cause you aren't cheese creating the terrain with parcels. It would be too XCOM2'ish. That's +15 years of game development to accomplish. :D And still I ran into a few "yeah, the character you were supposed to escort... well it's outside the game zone" -due to a mod that spawned extra aliens. And "Landing in the middle of the aliens". All fun and stuff.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#7 Ithildur

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 10:03 AM

I tried to google some alternative system or house rules but I didn't find anything about it

 

There's a reason why you didn't find anything out there.

 

A system like this would remove most of the challenge and fun of the BG1 portion of the game/low to mid lvl 2e DnD, as you'll level up waaay faster than intended; the fact that thieves get little or no xp for disarming traps, etc in BG1/BGT should tell you something, not that that's necessarily a determining factor as it's comparing apples and oranges ultimately.

 

But I suppose it'll feel a little more legit than SKing a bunch of extra xp for no reason. Not as big a factor in SOA/ToB, but then you get a bunch of bonus xp simply for scribing scrolls in SoA/ToB; why add even more just for casting arcane spells? Should fighters get bonus xp for every hit they land, thieves for every time they backstab? Why leave out divine casters while you're at it?

 

A big part of the fun of mage types in DnD (especially older editions) is the feeling of starting out very slow, weak, vulnerable, and eventually surpassing everything else in terms of power if you survive long enough; a mod like this screams 'Achieve supreme power without patience the quick and easy way!' to me and doesn't fit the BG game system very well.


Edited by Ithildur, 23 February 2016 - 10:20 AM.


#8 Galactygon

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 12:33 PM

I kind of like the idea of spellcasting granting you experience, but at a much much lower rate. Casting magic missile even a couple dozen times should not grant you level 2. Something like this perhaps?

Level 1 Experience Points: 10
Level 2 Experience Points: 25
Level 3 Experience Points: 50
Level 4 Experience Points: 75
Level 5 Experience Points: 100
Level 6 Experience Points: 150
Level 7 Experience Points: 200
Level 8 Experience Points: 300
Level 9 Experience Points: 400

Alternatively you could progress exponentially with closer matches your end goal of 1800xp for 9th level spells:

Level 1 Experience Points: 10
Level 2 Experience Points: 20
Level 3 Experience Points: 40
Level 4 Experience Points: 80
Level 5 Experience Points: 160
Level 6 Experience Points: 320
Level 7 Experience Points: 640
Level 8 Experience Points: 1240
Level 9 Experience Points: 2480
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#9 Kangaax

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 09:19 AM

Hi Ithildur and Galacticon.

 

@Ithildur

Respect about experience points, I have played some times  d&d on paper and I always pick the wizard. Some friends tell me that sorcerer is more powerful because casts more daily spells but they don't count about scribe scrolls skill or craft rings, wands and other stuff skills from wizard which could equal or improve much better number of spells casted by wizard with the advantage that a wizard in paper has very probably adivination spells to see future and prepare better defenses.

 

The mod I installed gives xp not only to arcane but divine spellcasters too and I set up the same experience points finishing on level 7 for divine (my bad didn't remember that so I would change experience earning points for divine improving it a bit because casts lower spells than wizard at the same level both or I should check for both spells progression tables).

 

When you are a wizard a start a normal d&d adventure, if the dm gives you xp per damage done the wizard/sorcerer are the ones which takes less experience points and was more hard in second editions where experience levels were not the same for all the classes.

For dungeon mastering I think it's not a bad practice give experience points when a character makes any action that identifies itself as a proffesion, a rogue with traps or backstabbing or hidding or bluffing, a mague casting spells or crafting magical things,...I think learning spells gives xp because level a wizard from lower levels requires more experience points than any other class except for special races and multiclassing and also arcanes drops xp and gold each time they inscribe spells or craft items.

 

@Galacticon 

I will try your experience points when I will reinstall in the future. At the moment I have more than 10 encounters in level 10 and I didn't level up yet so I think it seems balanced until now.

 

@the imp: I mean that in diablo I remember money it wasn't so useful like d&d....what happens if I want to purchase 100 protection from magic scrolls to have a backup for impossible scenarios? is it so unrealistic? I mean, a dm always can prepare encounters for killing their players if he wanst..enough to sink a ship and fight underwater or dragons conciliums and so on :D

 

Kind regards


Edited by Kangaax, 24 February 2016 - 10:38 AM.


#10 The Imp

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 10:39 AM

@the imp: I mean that in diablo I remember money it wasn't so useful like d&d....what happens if I want to purchase 100 protection from magic scrolls to have a backup for impossible scenarios? is it so unrealistic?
Well there's no one in the game that sells you 100 of those OP scrolls, and you can only have 5*(16+3)= 95 of those scrolls equipped anyways. :P
So I'll say yeah.
:devil: :ROFL:
 
:shifty: Besides, after you use those scrolls, the DM could say that you have used too many of them and out of the antimagical properties, they leave your char nauseated and vomiting, with diarrhea, headache, fever, weakness, skin-rashes, hair loss ... all the way to death.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#11 Kangaax

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 11:13 AM

The problem with that scrolls is that no magic can enter but also no magic can exit from that globe so  it has its owns pros/cons..

 

The monk is near inmune and runs like ligth speed and nobody complains about it. I have seen solos of monks in many games (neverwinter, baldur's gate, baldur's gate 2,...etc) and they are really overpowered..the only thing it could affect from magic is aoe spells but at the speed they run you would never affect them.

 

I don't mind if a player gets 100 of those scrolls. Probably as a dm I would build a area where you should need use of those scrolls. I have so many because lichs are very OP between other mages or sorcerers or creatures. It's supposed if you are going to dedicate explore new world areas you should prepare for that, so it's not so strange for me at least (and have stone to flesh scrolls in game indicates about the beholder danger..I have cast many flesh to stone and I had never got success and beholder always success...that's not very balanced...).



#12 Kangaax

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:40 PM

At this moment I'm playing baldur's gate 1 with big world setup and a lot of mods and I'm finding at least 1 vampiric wolf lord as a "normal encounter" with more wolves with him and sometimes there are 2 vampirics wolf lords. Each vampiric wolf lords is able to summon more wolves and they cast it at will and a less than second to cast skill :D, if I wouldn't cheat protection from undead in my inventory I would have dead long time ago. I can't rest because Jaheira is threating me to leave if I don't travel to Naskel (I hate how that druid can be so fucking irritating) but even if she wouldn't leave I set up in big world setup that respawn 90% times after rest with all encounters top hard difficult, +200% hp each monster, all the monsters max hit dices hit points as my characters and I still don't have a wizard..the spells of the cleric at low levels are a bit crap and even more when I figthing against 10 doped monsters each time..when I cast a spell they have casted 2 or 3...

 

I'm thinking to reinstall again :(....





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