384 replies to this topic

[Rathwellin the Bard]

And given the fact that you only get *one* shift to Greater Werewolf form in Refinements makes Shapeshifters more reliant on the lesser form through the whole game ... so I wouldnt' want to make it any weaker.

[Baltrek]

Point taken, I had an epiphany after I posted. I forget that the WW and GWW forms are fundamentally as powerful as the Shapeshifter will ever get, beyond a slight to hit improvement and a couple hit points.

Just noticed that Aerie started with 900,000 exp as well. Minsc, Jaheira, and Yoshi were normal. I checked the Virtue and Refinements readme's again, but did not find any mention of that. Is this because of how the game is recognizing the PC's level, and attempting to match it?

Also, how does the test reward of immunity to weapons effect the WW and GWW? Or does it only affect the druid's human form? I know it is crazy, but making the PC immune to +2 weapons would not have that much effect in ToB. I think almost everything there either uses +3, or hits as +3. Can't remember off hand though.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just noticed that Aerie started with 900,000 exp as well. Minsc, Jaheira, and Yoshi were normal. I checked the Virtue and Refinements readme's again, but did not find any mention of that. Is this because of how the game is recognizing the PC's level, and attempting to match it?

Almost certainly. The game attempts to match the level of the NPC to the PC. So if the PC is a Thief, Bard, or Druid the NPCs will start with insanely high XP.

[Baltrek]

I can't beleive I never noticed that before. I have played bunches of thieves, bards, and druids. Maybe because I was paying attention this time. No worries though, I SK'ed them back down to size...

Anomen does not need his head bigger than it is after all. Especially with a female PC. She may turn into a WW and eat him.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Anomen does not need his head bigger than it is after all. Especially with a female PC. She may turn into a WW and eat him.

Heh he he. Have you ever gotten that bug when Anomen accidentaly gets assigned the huge head portrait? His head is so big that you can only see a portion of it in the box. It's easily fixed with SK but is sooo funny!

[Littiz]

Sorry people, I've changed it and there's no turning back.
Shapeshifting works like this now:

WW is not immune to weapons
GWW is immune to normal weapons

After Feral Spirit:
WW is immune to normal weapons
GWW is immune to non-cold iron weapons

So, GWW with Feral Spirit is exactly the same juggernaut as before.
I've also fixed the issue with multiple Natural Forms.
It remains the sleep problem.
Well, it *is* a problem, I'll probably be forced to use immunity to sleep.
It wouldn't seem a big issue anyway, and would balance things up again.

Think that a spirit connected to the animal side cannot be doomed that easily when shapeshifted

[Caedwyr]

Those changes seem fair enough. Feral spirit is definately worthwhile selecting.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Sorry people, I've changed it and there's no turning back.
Shapeshifting works like this now:

WW is not immune to weapons
GWW is immune to normal weapons

After Feral Spirit:
WW is immune to normal weapons
GWW is immune to non-cold iron weapons

So, GWW with Feral Spirit is exactly the same juggernaut as before.
I've also fixed the issue with multiple Natural Forms.
It remains the sleep problem.
Well, it *is* a problem, I'll probably be forced to use immunity to sleep.
It wouldn't seem a big issue anyway, and would balance things up again.

Think that a spirit connected to the animal side cannot be doomed that easily when shapeshifted

How do you identify 'non-cold iron weapons'?

And I thought that Werewolves were vulnerable to *silver* not iron....

Questions aside the changes look fine to me.

[Caedwyr]

Most of the 'silver' weapons in the game are also flagged as being cold-iron. Not at all accurate to any sense of reality, but I guess the developers didn't want to make the distinction.

To clear things up, most weapons are non-cold iron. If you really want to know, I can probably dig up a list of which items are flagged as cold iron, since I was thinking of doing something with the weapon immunities for .cre editing at one point.

[Baltrek]

Looks good, seems to make more sense with the Feral Spirit anyway. Out of curiosity, my WW was charmed, and she got hit by a plain old summoned skeleton while in WW form. Are the skeletons hitting as a magic weapon????

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Most of the 'silver' weapons in the game are also flagged as being cold-iron. Not at all accurate to any sense of reality, but I guess the developers didn't want to make the distinction.

Interesting. thanks for the info.

To clear things up, most weapons are non-cold iron.  If you really want to know, I can probably dig up a list of which items are flagged as cold iron, since I was thinking of doing something with the weapon immunities for .cre editing at one point.

I would appriciate that.

[Baltrek]

Oh, and getting your PC WW dominated in the slaver stockade is a very, very bad thing indeed that early in the game. The party can't out run her, and they get ripped to shreds. Ahhh poor Anomen, I told you never underestimate a woman, at least you were the first to go. All this while a piddly skeleton is the only thing in the whole place that can hurt her.

Shapechanged WW still get the shield bonus as well. Throw a Shield of Harmony on her, and she is unstoppable.

I thought you guys were taking out the reflects beholder rays on the Shield of Balduran?

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Shapechanged WW still get the shield bonus as well. Throw a Shield of Harmony on her, and she is unstoppable.

Are you playing a fighter / shapeshifter of some sort?

I've done the Fighter 7 / Shapeshifter before and was able to use shields ... but never as a vanilla Shapeshifter.

[Baltrek]

No, vanilla. They can use bucklers and small shields.

Littiz-
The WW could use a little regeneration. Does not have to be anything spectacular like a GWW or the spell, but I was surprised not to at least see a token rate. Perhaps Feral Spirit could augment regeneration rates as well? Does not seem like 1-3 HP per round would be that unbalancing, and it would be more fitting for a WW. Then they go to the godly regeneration rate with GWW.

I was thinking about this while shapchanging in the middle of the Copper Coronet. Wouldn't it be cool if the effect had a "spook" effect on neutral creatures if done in front of them? I think it would make them go hostile though. I'll check.

And you said you wanted a break.

[Andyr]

Most of the 'silver' weapons in the game are also flagged as being cold-iron. Not at all accurate to any sense of reality, but I guess the developers didn't want to make the distinction.

To clear things up, most weapons are non-cold iron. If you really want to know, I can probably dig up a list of which items are flagged as cold iron, since I was thinking of doing something with the weapon immunities for .cre editing at one point.

IIRC, incredibly few things in the game are cold iron, which is why Anath is almost impossible to kill.

So... Having a PC immune to non-cold iron weapons would mean that you are almost untouchable in combat.

[Baltrek]

Littiz-

It does not appear that regeneration from any source works on her in WW form. I stole Ribald's ring, and it did not work, then shapeshifted normal form, and it works fine. This does not seem correct at all. I will try the spell and Ring of Gaxx in a sec.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

So... Having a PC immune to non-cold iron weapons would mean that you are almost untouchable in combat.

There is more. The Feral Spirit GWW form is 100% resistant to many kinds of damage.

The main downsides are the changes that limit GWW to once per day, making it take longer to shift to human form, and preventing speaking in GWW (which was possible in an un-refined game - kind of amusing actually sometimes).

[Baltrek]

Okay, here is the deal with regeneration from items:

Everything works fine if equipped in normal form before she shapechanges to WW.

Afterwards, only the Ring of Gaxx worked. Sort of. It only regenerated 1hp per 10 seconds, not at the rate in the description. And if it was equipped after shapechanged into WW form, the regeneration icon did not show up. Inorder for any of those items to work properly, you must shapeshift normal form, then re-equip any items, then shapeshift WW again. I tried this with the Ring of Gaxx, Ring of Regeneration, and the Ioun stone.

[Baltrek]

kind of amusing actually sometimes

Like watching Silvanus try to pick up my PC while shapechanged. Hey, I guess some guys are into dogs, but dang....

[Rathwellin the Bard]

What happens if you CLUA your PC some XP? Is the bug still there after Feral Spirt? What about GWW form before & after Feral Spirit?