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Paladins should be able to turn fiends - and here is how


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#1 temnix

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 11:25 AM

The Paladin class section of the Player's Handbook states that "A paladin gains the power to turn undead and fiends when he reaches 3rd level." This ability is said to work as priests' undead-turning, but fiends are included. I think this makes perfect sense, because in the case of paladins it's an expression of their opposition to creatures of evil, while priests, to my mind, reassert deities' monopoly over life and death and have no special objection to demons and devils (priests don't have to be good-aligned).

 

Now for implementing this... Turn Undead in the IE games obviously works only against the General AI value UNDEAD. Is there any reason why creatures with the DEMONIC race (and variations on it) shouldn't be patched to be UNDEAD? Currently their General type is MONSTER, which does nothing for anyone. They could retain their race etc. for classes that deal with fiends specifically, like the Cavalier. The Undead Hunter could be changed to have bonuses against specific races - ghouls, skeletons etc. As for actual immunities and protections of undead, those don't come from their General type but from equipped items, so fiends would receive no special benefits.

 

Most spells that damage undead, like Holy Word, also damage all evil-aligned creatures, so there is a large overlap. Spells and effects that do deal with undead and only undead use the Use EFF opcode targeting UNDEAD, but they can as easily target race values. There may still be some inconsistencies and gaps, but if players get a fair warning, a mod like this could give their paladins an interesting new option, especially in SoD, where we get the Paladin in Hell scenario.

 

 



#2 Fiann of the Silver Hand

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Posted 28 March 2017 - 08:33 PM

Changing it to UNDEAD will also make them be turned by regular ol' Priests, which isn't desirable.  Just patch in a script check in any fiend's CRE.

 

non-code version:

 

Is a paladin within X distance?

Is that paladin Turning Undead?

Is that paladin over level Y?

THEN

RunAway for Z seconds



#3 The Imp

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    Not good, see EVIL is better. You'll LIVE.

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:28 AM

The Paladin class section of the Player's Handbook states...

Sorry, but it doesn't.

 

You mean an x'ed edition of a D&D "Player's Handbook" says... then state it as such. "The" has a meaning outside the game that's associated with it. Aka you didn't mean the BG2 Player's Handbook, that tecnically doesn't exist. There's the manual...  but... no.

And what comes to the ruleset... players have made their own for ages, misrepresending them as anything else than tweaks is highly not encouraged.


Edited by The Imp, 29 March 2017 - 01:29 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#4 temnix

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 03:27 AM

I don't know about you, but I'm playing Advanced Dungeons&Dragons here. It's a necessarily flat computer version, and not everything can be ported or should be ported here. But what can be and would make the game closer to its roots and more fun, should be.

 

To Fiann: your suggestion is better. With probabilities of getting blasted to bits at high levels.