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Diablo2 Kit Pack Series for Tob & EE v230326

Diablo2 Kit Diablo II

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#1 shohy

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:57 PM

Diablo2 Kit Pack Series for Tob, BGT and EE series, it took me 13 years to finish them.
Those kits gains skills in Diablo2 yet loss most of original skills of BG.
Download: Attached File  D2kits230326.7z   8.1MB   93 downloads
Or: https://github.com/shohysie/BG2MODS
V20230326. Better interactable with Jamella's Diablo2 Item Store, and fixed some serious problems of summoned creatures.
Details can be found in readme in uploaded files.
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Edited by shohy, 29 March 2023 - 04:55 AM.


#2 Gel87

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

Very nice :D I'll try it out :D

 

I tryed to make a necromancer myself, but was not able to get the corpse and poison explotion to work xD It also had a fun sacrifice to sacrifice his summons in a explotion xD

 

I tested it a little now :) 

 

There seems to be a bug with golems. They get summoned then just dissapears stright away for me :S Except fire golem.

 

I loved the animations, although the bonespear spell could look less like ligtning. I have a version that looks very cool u can get if u want. It looks like silver dragon breath projectile with an small silver explotion for every target it hits so it looks like pieces of bones splinters off when hitting enemies. The splinter explotion wont trigger if they die instantly though ;d

 

It would also be nice if the curses showed somehow over their head, to easier see whos cursed.

 

And there are some really cool poison explotions from sod both for nova and psn explotion, incase u wanna have a look :D

 

Else than that, epic work man :D 


Edited by Gel87, 05 June 2017 - 01:43 PM.


#3 Gel87

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 02:40 AM

There is a problem. At level 36 or so u dont have anywhere to put profience points, meaning u cant level up....



#4 shohy

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:19 AM

Very nice :D I'll try it out :D

 

I tryed to make a necromancer myself, but was not able to get the corpse and poison explotion to work xD It also had a fun sacrifice to sacrifice his summons in a explotion xD

 

I tested it a little now :)

 

There seems to be a bug with golems. They get summoned then just dissapears stright away for me :S Except fire golem.

 

I loved the animations, although the bonespear spell could look less like ligtning. I have a version that looks very cool u can get if u want. It looks like silver dragon breath projectile with an small silver explotion for every target it hits so it looks like pieces of bones splinters off when hitting enemies. The splinter explotion wont trigger if they die instantly though ;d

 

It would also be nice if the curses showed somehow over their head, to easier see whos cursed.

 

And there are some really cool poison explotions from sod both for nova and psn explotion, incase u wanna have a look :D

 

Else than that, epic work man :D

 

 

There is a problem. At level 36 or so u dont have anywhere to put profience points, meaning u cant level up....

Thanks a lot, I'll try to make a better version. May I have a look at the animations?



#5 Gel87

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 10:05 PM

Very nice :D I'll try it out :D

 

I tryed to make a necromancer myself, but was not able to get the corpse and poison explotion to work xD It also had a fun sacrifice to sacrifice his summons in a explotion xD

 

I tested it a little now :)

 

There seems to be a bug with golems. They get summoned then just dissapears stright away for me :S Except fire golem.

 

I loved the animations, although the bonespear spell could look less like ligtning. I have a version that looks very cool u can get if u want. It looks like silver dragon breath projectile with an small silver explotion for every target it hits so it looks like pieces of bones splinters off when hitting enemies. The splinter explotion wont trigger if they die instantly though ;d

 

It would also be nice if the curses showed somehow over their head, to easier see whos cursed.

 

And there are some really cool poison explotions from sod both for nova and psn explotion, incase u wanna have a look :D

 

Else than that, epic work man :D

 

 

There is a problem. At level 36 or so u dont have anywhere to put profience points, meaning u cant level up....

Thanks a lot, I'll try to make a better version. May I have a look at the animations?

 

 

Hi, im sry was a little away from bg serie, so kinda forgot all about it. Im offshore at work now, i can upload the animations when i get home.

However, back home i tested the amazon kit, its very fun! But there is a couple of bugs, dno if i did anything wrong as i used ee-keeper to give myself teleport and bags of holding, boots of cheeta etc, but this happens:

Critic skill: I have 2 of them, need to cast them after every rest. Should this not be a passive albility?

Dodge skill: I have 1, same as above, need to recast after every rest.

 

I have like 10-12 skillpoints who refreash after rest. So i can stack a lot of skills. (this offcourse gave me a golden opportunity to test all skills without having to save just for the best ones)

The HLA avoid/dodge skill(forgot name), does not add magic resistance, it might add at first skillpoint, but at second skilling it certainly did not add any.

The penetrate HLA could not be skilled more than once, which is a bit contradiction to it's description saying adds 1% extra for each skilling. I also don't know how many percent it adds base.

 

Spoiler

 

Looking forward to test the other types as well.

 

Edit:

About the necromancer: The golem bug i experienced in start happens very rarely now.


Edited by Gel87, 24 July 2017 - 10:21 PM.


#6 shohy

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:43 PM

Hi, im sry was a little away from bg serie, so kinda forgot all about it. Im offshore at work now, i can upload the animations when i get home.

However, back home i tested the amazon kit, its very fun! But there is a couple of bugs, dno if i did anything wrong as i used ee-keeper to give myself teleport and bags of holding, boots of cheeta etc, but this happens:

Critic skill: I have 2 of them, need to cast them after every rest. Should this not be a passive albility?

Dodge skill: I have 1, same as above, need to recast after every rest.

 

I have like 10-12 skillpoints who refreash after rest. So i can stack a lot of skills. (this offcourse gave me a golden opportunity to test all skills without having to save just for the best ones)

The HLA avoid/dodge skill(forgot name), does not add magic resistance, it might add at first skillpoint, but at second skilling it certainly did not add any.

The penetrate HLA could not be skilled more than once, which is a bit contradiction to it's description saying adds 1% extra for each skilling. I also don't know how many percent it adds base.

 

Spoiler

 

Looking forward to test the other types as well.

 

Edit:

About the necromancer: The golem bug i experienced in start happens very rarely now.

All passive skill of Amazon should disappear after clicked, but sometimes the button never disappear and I can't find how to delete them even with an ee-keeper.

As the bug may not be avoided, I'll add some message in readme to inform that Critical Strike, Dodge, Avoid and Evade only work at the first 4 clicks. More casting (if the buttons don't disappear) will bring no more effective chances.

The refreashing skillpoints are also hard to avoid, Fortunately the bug rarely happens.

The HLA skill Evade no longer adds magic resistance in Ver 0.4. It only provides chance to keep out spells of magic attack, battle ground and disabling. And effective chances of such skills don't take the increasing mode of Diablo 2, they increase by X% per skilling. The X value can be found in readme file.



#7 shohy

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 01:40 AM

All of the 7 classes in Diablo2 are here now, it took me 13 years to finish them.



#8 Endarire

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 11:21 AM

Alleluia!

Note that Marcus the Diablo ii Barbarian Companion already exists.  He could go well with your kits.


Edited by Endarire, 13 November 2022 - 11:22 AM.


#9 Sergio

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Posted 14 November 2022 - 09:22 AM

Congrats for this release. I've taken a look at the readmes and you really put a lot of effort into this mod. I'm amazed.


Low hung brow, dazed look on your face..... It appears that you are correct, my friend. You are indeed a complete imbecile.


#10 Endarire

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Posted 14 November 2022 - 10:54 PM

Also, may we get this uploaded to GitHub for posterity?  How EET compatible is this mod?  (I'd much like for it to be EET compatible since that's been my preferred platform!)

Thankee!



#11 shohy

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Posted 15 November 2022 - 03:50 AM

Also, may we get this uploaded to GitHub for posterity?  How EET compatible is this mod?  (I'd much like for it to be EET compatible since that's been my preferred platform!)

Thankee!
This MOD is EET compatible.
I have no idea how GitHub works ;D I'll be glad if someone can help to upload.

#12 Endarire

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Posted 15 November 2022 - 11:39 AM

Enjoy these GItHub tutorials I made.



#13 shohy

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Posted 15 November 2022 - 08:00 PM

Enjoy these GItHub tutorials I made.


OK I put the files here

https://github.com/shohysie/BG2MODS


Edited by shohy, 21 November 2022 - 05:16 AM.


#14 Endarire

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Posted 16 November 2022 - 11:29 AM

Thankee!

Adding a release version and a proper readme.md would help.  The text of README.MD is what displays on the main page of your GitHub repository ('repo'), like this solid example.  A release tells the world that the code, while it may have bugs, is generally ready to use. 

Note that each repository is meant to be for one mod.  Maybe this means you restructure your GitHub account and add a separate repo per DIablo II kit, or you put all D2 kits in one repo.  (Separate repos would likely make them easier to maintain.)  Notice how, for example, Spellhold Studios has its GitHub account organized with one repo per project.

Once this is done, ask jastey for news forum access so the Infinity Engine modding world knows you did this.  Also post in this thread if your mod is EET compatible so it's added to the EET mod compatibility list.

What I mentioned was a buncha small steps compared to the giant leaps you've made so far in finishing your mods!

Thankee and alleluia!



#15 Endarire

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Posted 22 November 2022 - 01:35 PM

Thankee for updating your GitHub readme.md with relevant information.

General
-On the technical side, what say you to removing the summoning limit - on the EEs at least? There are other mods which remove the summon caps introduced by BGII. Part of the fun of being a D2 Necromancer is the horde.

-I have played Diablo II a lot over the past decades with Sorceress, Necromancer, Druid, and Paladin being my primary classes and the others being my secondary classes.

-Did you intend to include class progressions up to the engine-supported maximum level of 50? There are mods that allow this, and doing so would account for more players, including me.

-Should these kits be able to use consumables meant only for members of vanilla classes? For example, should a D2 Sor be able to use a scroll of cloudkill or animate dead? Check Shadow Magic for an example of a mod that adds new kits and a new casting system while preventing members of the original class (vanilla Sor/Wiz) from using its consumables and vice versa.

-Everyone should have a freedom ability of some kind, especially to prevent minions from getting stuck. (Giving it as an innate ability from level 1 - at least once daily - seems fair.) Druids and Necromancers need it most because they summon. If not from level 1, then granting everyone an innate freedom 1/day starting at character level 10 and increasing once daily per 5 levels thereafter seems fair. (Note that my revised Sorceress spell list grants freedom automatically as a level 9 spell known.)

-For skill points, it seems like these should be removed from the character's bar only when choosing an ability like Zeal. Not choosing an ability should either not remove the skill point or instead remove the skill point then immediately re-add it to the character. Alternatively, what about giving each skill point ability 999 charges that refresh daily, but only 1 charge to the abilities granted by them (Zeal, Sacrifice, etc.)?

-How do we access the hirelings in the original post?

-Druids, Necromancers, Paladins, and Sorceresses should get Dispel Magic. For example, grant them 1 daily use of it per 5 character levels starting at level 5. (If you use the recommend spell changes for D2 Sors mentioned below, Sors instead get Dispel Magic as a level 3 spell known automatically.)

-Druids, Necromancers, and Paladins should get some sort of Raise Dead or/and Resurrection ability.  For example, getting Raise Dead usable 1/day starting at level 10 and Resurrection 1/day starting at level 15 - possibly with extra daily casts every 5 levels - seems fair.  Yes, we have saving and reloading, but not everyone plays that way.

Sorceress
-To clarify, does Telekinesis allow remote unlocking of locked objects if the character also has a lockpicking ability?

-For the sake of being able to handle the higher level challenges and to account for things in BG(2) but not in the Diablo series, a Sorceress with this kit should also have these spells automatically known:

Level 1
-Find Familiar: Should be a class feature and some mods make it that way, but I like my pseudodragon or cat or arcane pet. Diablo III Wizards also get a Familiar.

-Identify: Diablo to its core.

-Magic Missile?: Pretty much guaranteed damage, and Diablo III has the Magic Missilea spell inspired this.

Level 2
-Invisibility: Was in Diablo's demo.

-Knock: Unlocks locked things. Diablo II had locked chests and keys sold in stores.

-Mirror Image?: Super useful defensive spell. Diablo III Wizards also get Mirror Image.

Level 3
-Detect Invisibility: Spot annoying enemies, like the Diablo II annoying nearly-invisible wraiths!

-Dispel Magic: Mage duels, debuffs, and buffs sometimes define BG2. This helps.

-Haste: Simulates D2 Teleport spam + Town Portal, as well as lag spikes and speed hacks.

-Remove Curse: Someone in the Diablo party should be able to cast it.

-Slow?: The included Frost Nova was mostly used for slowing foes.

Level 4
-Minor Sequencer: A caster with sequencers and contingencies is normally far better off than one without. Also simulates rapid clicking or botting.

-Stoneskin?: Diablo III Wizards have Diamond Skin and diamond is a stone. Beyond this, stoneskin is a standard protection for arcane casters and an early way to avoid being interrupted by physical damage when casting.

Level 5
-Breach: A signature buff removal spell.

-Lower Resistance: Allows more spells to work against more foes in BG2.

-Protection from Normal Weapons: Weak foes can't hurt me because I'm high level.

Level 6
-Contingency: A caster with sequencers and contingencies is normally far better off than one without. Also simulates rapid clicking or botting.

-Flesh to Stone?: Diablo had Stone Curse.

-Pierce Shield: Lowers spell resistance and removes buffs.

-Protection from Magic Energy: Someone in the Diablo II party needs to be able to prevent party wipes from horrid wilting and skull trap.

-Protection from Magic Weapons?: Super useful in general, and an assumed part of any arcane caster build at a certain point. I'm unsure how necessary it is for a D2 Sor, but it's at least close to needed.

-Stone to Flesh: Someone in the Diablo party must be able to remove petrification.

-True Seeing: Being able to notice and expose invisible creatures and remove illusions is just part of high level caster combat in the BG series. A major reason I wrote this post.

Level 7
-Project Image: Diablo III Wizards' Mirror Image does some damage with its spells.

-Simulacrum: Diablo III Wizards' Mirror Image does some damage with its spells.

-Spell Trigger: A caster with sequencers and contingencies is normally far better off than one without. Also simulates rapid clicking or botting.

-Limited Wish: Grants access to the limited wish quest and certain buffs and effects that may be important in BG2.

Level 8
-Spell Sequencer: A caster with sequencers and contingencies is normally far better off than one without. Also simulates rapid clicking or botting.

Level 9
-Chain Contingency: A caster with sequencers and contingencies is normally far better off than one without. Also simulates rapid clicking or botting.

-Freedom: Some enemies will use imprisonment. This prevents the need to reload every time it happens.

-Spellstrike: Undoing a buncha protections & buffs is just expected at this point.

-Time Stop?: Using it can sometimes simulate lag spikes. Not having it as an arcane caster is just seen as foolish, but I'm unsure how necessary it is.

-Wish: Used for wish resting to solo the game, and Diablo II is soloable as a Sor. (I've done it for a friend's birthday.) I'm unsure how important wish is considering Warmth.

Paladin
-For the Paladin Stronghold quest, the Diablo Paladin needs detect evil. Making it a toggled innate ability seems fair. (I know it's available on scrolls, but some people play vow of poverty games.)

-Paladins should get an innate raise dead ability (level 10ish) and later an innate resurrection ability (level 15ish). It's useful and Diablo has a Resurrect ability. Diablo II's beta also had Resurrect scrolls with purple coloration, just like Town Portal scrolls in D2 have a blue coloration.

-Should Paladin auras also have an improved alacrity effect on them so they take effect sooner?

-Does the Paladin's Cleansing aura also remove disease & decay statuses as it seemingly should? Does Cleansing also make the party immune to poison/disease/decay while active as it seemingly should? How does it affect negative levels?

-A better phrasing of Holy Fire/Freeze/Shock would be this or similar:
LV15: d2 cold damage to enemies within 20' and +4 cold damage each time you hit with a weapon you wield.

-For the Resist Cold/Electricity/Fire auras, why not just give +100% resistance to the respective energy type at maximum tier?

-In Diablo II, Holy Freeze is notably powerful because it also slows enemies. What sort of slow effect does Holy Freeze have with your kit? I ask since it's mentioned in the flavor description but not in the mechanical effect section.

-For the D2 Paladin, why is he limited to 1 point in weapons (longsword, etc.) when normal Paladins can put 2 points into each weapon? At present, it seems like a low level D2 Paladin needs the Might aura active to hit stuff.

-It seems like there should be some prevention or counter to the D&D status effects - via the auras or otherwise - of fear, charm, domination, negative levels/energy drain/level drain, ability score damage/drain (STR, CON, INT, etc.), petrification, instant death, sleep, stun, disintegration, and hold/paralysis. I don't claim any one ability need to prevent or remove or provide a bonus to saves versus all of these, but these are things that generally weren't in D2 but that matter a lot in certain D&D contexts!

-Perhaps Concentration also prevents & cures sleep, fear, charm, and domination. Perhaps Vigor also provides Freedom of Movement/Free Action or otherwise cures & prevents hold/paralysis, stun, and slow effects. Perhaps Sanctuary also removes but doesn't prevent ability score damage/drain and negative levels. Perhaps Holy Bolt also removes at least some negative levels and ability damage/drain.

-I'm concerned the Defiance aura is too weak at higher levels. Yes, it helps, but there's somewhat of an expectation that, at a certain point, AC doesn't matter because stuff will be hit pretty much regardless. Maybe you didn't encounter this in your testing but it's something to consider. (I noticed this when I GMed a 3.5 game and the party Paladin complained his sentient full plate armor didn't help him prevent hits like Mirror Image and spell buffs did.) If Defiance also provided a minor bonus to saves (like +1 or +2 to all saves initially then +1 more per tier) it would be more worthwhile, but the exact balance is something for you to consider.

-I'm also concerned Fist of the Heavens is too weak for a high level ability, just like how at least for awhile in D2, it was considered weak. In your kit mod, Fist has a wide damage variance (d12s) instead of something more traditional (d6s or d8s). Adding more dice of a smaller die size reduces variance and would likely make this more appealing, like making it deal d8 damage per 2 class levels to enemies in the area and heal allies for the same amount. I kept thinking, "But a skull trap does at least 10 damage dice at this point, and a vanilla skull trap does about 20 damage dice at this point. This Paladin isn't a Wizard, but Fist just seemed weak."

-Thorns also felt kinda weak because it requires allies to be hit, which is something we normally don't want happening! BG1 archers (the concept and the Ranger kit) are some of the most powerful character types because they can do a lot of damage with relative safety. Protection from magic weapons, mirror image, and stoneskin are some vanilla spells that prevent hits, making Thorns useless in this case. Thorns seems like it should amplify damage back to the attacker, such as dealing a minimum of twice the damage that was dealt the subject (minimum twice the Paladin's character level). This is another ability that seemed awkward to balance because it's either useless or very useful.

-Blessed Aim seems like it should also grant everyone affected Detect Invisibility/Oracle. At a high enough level it should also grant True Seeing. Note that the Inquisitor Paladin kit gets True Seeing from level 1.

Barbarian
-For the D2 Barbarian, you say he gets at character creation +1 to STR and Vitality. I think you meant +1 to STR and CON.

-Why limit him to 1 point in bows & crossbows when D2 Bow Barbarian builds exist? (Maybe that's what I saw when I played.) I know BG Berserkers have these limits. I'm curious, though I understand Barbarians in D2 much less so in BG2 are meant as ranged units.

-Find Item just seems weak. Getting only junk for the first tier in double digit levels just made it negligible. The second tier is only slightly better.


Edited by Endarire, 23 November 2022 - 02:35 PM.


#16 Endarire

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Posted 28 November 2022 - 02:26 PM

In terms of class evaluations, compared to their original classes in BG1 & 2, the non-casters (Assassin, Amazon, Barbarian, and especially Paladin) come out ahead power-wise.  That's because BG1 & 2 didn't give many class abilities to any class besides weapon proficiencies and spells.  The Ranger and Paladin in BG1 & 2 are casters, but their normal casting is so weak as to be barely there, and readily replaced by class features that help them more.  Debatably, the default Thief traps are better than Assassin traps, but I'd normally rather have a D2 version of these classes than base.  These classes also have a similar design philosophy to later editions of D&D:  Give the non-casters interesting combat options in addition to hitting things and using skills.  Auto-attacking can be effective, but that alone doesn't keep player interest over the course of a long campaign.

For the casters, Necromancer isn't very comparable to normal Cleric.  They're effectively different classes.  The Druid is likely a bit weaker overall than the BG Druid due to the versatility of the spell list.  Sorcerers just got hosed.  I recommended fixes above because of the massive differences in expectations between D2 (fast-paced action with few buffs) and BG2 (sometimes fast-paced action with LOTS of buffs & debuffs depending on mods and difficulty).  The D2 Sorcerer also faces the 3.5 Warmage class problem of having many flavors of direct damage when he only needs 2, acid/fire (to kill trolls) and magic (for everything else) because BG1 & 2 spell effectiveness is in its versatility like healing, buffing, debuffing, and crowd control and not just bigger flavors of boom.

Sure, a D2 kit only party may work well for BG1 and maybe also SoD, but will likely struggle or stop working some time in BG2.  The above changes I mentioned are meant to counteract that to allow a D2 kit only party to win from Candlekeep to the final fight.

Thankee!



#17 shohy

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Posted 30 November 2022 - 07:13 PM

In terms of class evaluations, compared to their original classes in BG1 & 2, the non-casters (Assassin, Amazon, Barbarian, and especially Paladin) come out ahead power-wise.  That's because BG1 & 2 didn't give many class abilities to any class besides weapon proficiencies and spells.  The Ranger and Paladin in BG1 & 2 are casters, but their normal casting is so weak as to be barely there, and readily replaced by class features that help them more.  Debatably, the default Thief traps are better than Assassin traps, but I'd normally rather have a D2 version of these classes than base.  These classes also have a similar design philosophy to later editions of D&D:  Give the non-casters interesting combat options in addition to hitting things and using skills.  Auto-attacking can be effective, but that alone doesn't keep player interest over the course of a long campaign.

For the casters, Necromancer isn't very comparable to normal Cleric.  They're effectively different classes.  The Druid is likely a bit weaker overall than the BG Druid due to the versatility of the spell list.  Sorcerers just got hosed.  I recommended fixes above because of the massive differences in expectations between D2 (fast-paced action with few buffs) and BG2 (sometimes fast-paced action with LOTS of buffs & debuffs depending on mods and difficulty).  The D2 Sorcerer also faces the 3.5 Warmage class problem of having many flavors of direct damage when he only needs 2, acid/fire (to kill trolls) and magic (for everything else) because BG1 & 2 spell effectiveness is in its versatility like healing, buffing, debuffing, and crowd control and not just bigger flavors of boom.

Sure, a D2 kit only party may work well for BG1 and maybe also SoD, but will likely struggle or stop working some time in BG2.  The above changes I mentioned are meant to counteract that to allow a D2 kit only party to win from Candlekeep to the final fight.

Thankee!
Thanks for the detailed suggestions, they really inspired me a lot.
This mod supports a maximum level of 50.
All kits are able to use consumables for members of vanilla classes.
It's difficult to build a mechanism to keep a Skill Point not removed when clicked without choosing an ability, I'll give it a try.
The hirelings can only be summoned by a level 6 spell of a D2 Sorcerer (as a compensation for that the Sorcerer only have element attack types).
Telekinesis opens locked objects just like the Knock (level 2 wizard spell).
Paladin's Cleansing aura makes the party immune to poison, but does not affect negative levels.
Resist Cold/Electricity/Fire auras do not reach +100% resistance because in D2 games they hardly reach maximum resistance on their own.
Holy Freeze give slow effect the same as a Slow spell but ignores saving throw and magic resistance. I'll give some description next time.
Paladin is limited to 1 point in all 2-handed weapons as he is unfit for them in D2 games. Barbarian is limited to 1 point in bow and crossbow in the same manner.
Concentration now prevents sleep, fear, charm, and domination with some chance. It'll be able to cure them in next version.
Thorns is very powerful when you encounter casters with Flame Shield, e.g. a lich :P
Find Item may bring surprises on high level.
 
And, these kits are made to be close to D2 games rather than more suitable for DND rules, which makes them difficult to deal with bad states, spell attacks, spell protections, etc. Their abilites are intentionally made to be not versatile enough, as I want their abilities to be use flexibly to solve all kinds of difficult situations in Baldur's Gate games.
 
Some of the suggestions, such as removing the summoning limit, preventing minions from getting stuck, auras getting an instantly effect, Cleansing aura removing diseases, Vigor providing Free Action, damage dice of Fist of the Heavens, will surely be applied in the next version. I also found some bugs (e.g. level 1 aura of Oak Sage) to be fixed at the same time.

Edited by shohy, 30 November 2022 - 07:33 PM.


#18 jastey

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Posted 01 December 2022 - 02:08 AM

Once this is done, ask jastey for news forum access so the Infinity Engine modding world


I'm not an admin at G3.



#19 Endarire

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Posted 02 December 2022 - 08:51 AM

Adaptation and Theory
I mentioned the things I did because I suspect many others would want at least an install option for the other stuff (immunity to/removal of other negative statuses, 100% energy resistance at max ability effectiveness, and other spells & effects listed above) so they could play an adapted version of the D2 kits in the BG series and still be able to win with SCS (Sword Coast Stratagems) installed which makes foes smarter.

I understand what it's like to adapt another game's assumptions to D&D.  I adapted Might & Magic: World of Xeen to a D&D 3.5 tabletop campaign with some results here.  The main point was to make the game we played interesting and fun for all, and Xeen provided some flavor, locations, NPCs, and items/abilities with D&D 3.5's mechanics and assumptions being primary.  (When the party's Paladin who had a Cleric cohort didn't start with Turn Undead in an Undead-heavy campaign due to my house rules, the player complained to me and we diplomatically settled the matter.)

For a BG example, consider the Baldur's Gate D&D 3.5 mod which partially adapts the D&D 3.5 ruleset into BG's engine.  For example, dual classing is disabled and all classes cap at character level 30.

Baldur's Gate II Redux is a Dragon Mage mod that ports the first part of BG2 to Dragon Age.  Baldur's Gate Reloaded ports BG1 and BG2 (but not SoD) into Neverwinter Nights II.  These adaptations use their base game and its engine for their stats.  For example, BG2 Redux makes a custom Druid class/kit for Jaheira because Dragon Age has none, and Baldur's Gate Reloaded uses the D&D 3.5 system which has feats and skills that AD&D 2e didn't.

There are likely other examples, but I believe I've made my point - that we're already playing a BG game and we're here to succeed according to the standards of said BG game, even though there's a lot of overlap in concept or/and stats with Diablo II.  The significant differences in emphasis on D2 vs BG2 has been at the core of our disparity.  To reiterate:  I suspect many people who would use these kits would want to use a party full of characters with these kits (or just one character with one of these kits) for a more D2 feel, but also want some of the BG series conveniences and abilities mentioned in previous posts.

Just to reiterate:  Our group still intends to have a party with a D2 Paladin because the auras make him [i]super useful throughout the game, and even with OlvynSpells giving all classes more spells and D2's Paladin not getting any spells, the D2 Paladin holds up favorably.

D&D and Diablo 2 Progression Standards
In D&D, every level or every other level is important because every level is normally a significant accomplishment.  Leveling from 1 to 2 means about twice as many HP and being slightly more accurate.  It may come with additional class abilities like skill points.  Being able to cast a new level of spells (normally level 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 14, 16, then 18) is also a notable accomplishment because it means potentially - and often also in practice - a significant increase in versatility or/and power.  Reaching level 20+ in tabletop is normally a rarity, though BG2 was purposely made for epic level characters with a vanilla level cap of 31+ and an engine-enforced level cap of 50 for all classes.  Beyond the level when a character gets his third high level ability, the increase in power level of characters drops of drastically:  Each level is normally more of the same.  Even HP stops radically increasing after level 9 or 10 depending on class!

Diablo 2 is different.  It spreads out its reward tiers to be every 6 levels or so until all abilities are available, then expects to players to determine their build and focus on a small number of them (2-3 plus synergies) for maximum benefit.  By level 60, a character can max his most important skill, and by level 80, he can also max his second most important skill.  Level 80 is also around the practical limit in terms of character leveling because after that, leveling speed slows drastically and there's much less benefit to gaining another level.

D&D tends to focus on immunities and breaking immunities, like stoneskin making the caster immune to physical hits while active and dispel magic being able to negate stoneskin and otherwise.  Diablo 2 immunities are normally absolute:  Being phyiscally immune means just that and you'd better find another way to kill that foe (like with your party members) if you want to be able to beat that lightning enchanted multishot super fast wraith on Hell difficulty!  (Or just Rakinishu in general.)

Your adaptation of D2's classes into BG is remarkable.  I am concerned that you were too focused on making the mechanics feel like D2's progression when they need adaptation to BG.  You've already started.

It may seem unfair to consider D&D abilities which are 'daily' abilities to be per-fight abilities, but with the ability to rest easily after every fight, all daily abilities are instead encounter-based abilities.  This is how D2 was also balanced with potion use and cooldowns in mind.

For a simple example, consider this:  A tier 1 D2 ability is equal to a level 1 BG spell.  A tier 2 D2 ability is equal to a level 3 spell.  A tier 3 D2 ability is equal to a level 5 spell.  A tier 4 D2 ability is equal to a level 7 spell.  A tier 5 ability is equal to a level 9 spell or a high level ability (HLA).

More specifically for a D2 Paladin, Prayer (T1) and Might (T1) are meant to be compared to level 1 divine spells such as Armor of Faith, Command, Cure Light Wounds, Magic Stone, Protection from Evil, Resist Fear, and Shillelagh.  I believe this is a fair comparison and it works well for the D2 Paladin because of getting his auras automatically and them affecting all allies (or enemies for such auras).  At tier 2, Prayer and Might will be compared to level 2 divine spells such as Barkskin, Charm Person or Mammal, Hold Person, and SIlence as well as level 3 divine spells such as Animate Dead, Call Lightning, Cure Disease, Dispel Magic, and Summon Insects.  How well do these level 1 abilities hold up, even slightly upgraded?  The answer is, "It depends."

Prayer heals double the HP per round (4 HP vs. 2 HP) but characters now have about 500% max HP.  It's also assumed that characters are trying to kill their   Might gives +1 more damage per hit (+4 vs. +3) and characters still get bonus damage from extra attacks, high STR, etc. meaning the comparison is a bit more favorable for Might, but it still felt kinda weak.  Still, Fighters get +1/2 APR at level 7 and again at level 9 (5 ranks in a weapon) and at level 5, haste is first available so Might still is useful.  Resist Fire probably won't be used before tier 2 when fireball is available, and +60% fire resistance for the party is useful and it only gets better from there.  (Prayer really should be buffed to at least +8 HP healed per round at tier 2 instead of +4 - or just make it a flat percentage of maximum HP healed per round, like 20% at tier 1, 30% at tier 2, etc.)

What about some Tier 2 auras?  Holy Fire turns the Paladin into a kiting caster-lite.  With this, he gets better damage per hit with weapons, but also gets to sit back and roast foes - including trolls - from a distance and his high defenses means he's unlikely to be hit easily by physical attacks.  Thorns turns out less favorably since the damage is low and we assume whoever gets hit to trigger thorns also takes damage.  Resist Cold is a joke because so few things in BG use cold damage, but it's handy to have for those that do.  It's better in Icewind Dale.

And so on.

Technical Limits?
Also, why did you mention in your documentation to have only one of each D2 class at most in the party at a time?

Weapon Styles
For weapon styles (1 handed melee weapon, 2 handed melee weapon, and weapon & shield), call them weapon styles and not classes.  (It's an English language thing.)

Auras
Meditation Aura: I don't see the problem with using this out of combat.  Resting to full resources is already a save-rest-reload until no random encounters occur-save away!

Thorns Aura: Fire shield infinite damage looping is a bug that was fixed in jmerry's Tweak Collection, but Keldorn Firecam's BG2 starting armor can do the same infinite loop normally.  Right now, the 2d6 damage per hit at level 5 (minimum level for Thorns) feels kinda low, and it just gets worse proportionately from there, especially when damage upgrades come every 5 character levels.  Vanilla BG1 only lasts until level 10ish depending on class!  This is the same level as when full casters get level 3 spells like fireball, haste, skull trap, dispel magic, and animate dead.  Sure, Thorns is more useful on pets because they're more likely to be hit, but unlike most abilities, Thorns requires an ally to be hit: This normally means damage, and it doesn't trigger on someone with stoneskin or mirror image.  Maybe protection from magic weapons also doesn't work.

Why do auras normally require about a round to trigger in combat?  I read that before trying it and didn't report it as a bug because I was forewarned, even though it felt like a bug.

D2 Mercenaries
What say you to allowing each D2 class kit to get a mercenary?  What about making D2 mercs optionally recruitable via some (new?) NPCs in Beregost, Baldur's Gate, Athkatla, Amkethran, and Kuldahar (IWD)?  What about adding famous Diablo series items as the Stone of Jordan, Grandfather katana, Windforce longbow, and Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac?

Thankee!


Edited by Endarire, 02 December 2022 - 10:41 AM.


#20 Endarire

Endarire
  • Member
  • 216 posts

Posted 04 December 2022 - 11:35 AM

Dual Classing
Multiclassing has been highly requested by fans for Blizzard's RPGs for decades now.  The Infinity Engine allows for this.  Yes, it means that, by default, players could have D2 versions of Assassin >> X, Barbarian >> X, Druid >> Fighter, or Necromancer >> X.  With mods, multiclassed versions of Assassin (Thief), Barbarian (Fighter), Druid, and Necromancer (Cleric) are possible, though normally characters are limited to one kit at a time.  Mechanically speaking, there's normally little reason to dual from D2's classes, but with Dual to Kit, characters can dual into these classes if they have no kit otherwise.

Note the D2 kits have mechanics that encourage not dualing, but allowing dual classing for those who want it without further mods still helps.

Recommended Spells: D2 Druids
I recommend the D2 Druid get access to these spells as well due to adapting to the BG rule set.  Most the recommended spell additions are things that a typical Druid is assumed to have like Dispel, healing, and status prevention/removal effects.  Others are just thematic to the Druid, like Goodberry or Entangle.

Level 1: Cure Light Wounds, Entangle, Goodberry

Level 2: Barkskin, Charm Person or Mammal, Resist Fire/Cold

 

Level 3: Cure Disease, Cure Medium Wounds, Dispel Magic, Magic Fang, Hold Animal, Remove Curse (WoW Druids get a curse removal spell), Remove Paralysis, Zone of Sweet Air

 

Level 4: Cure Serious Wounds, Death Ward, Free Action/Freedom of Movement, Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison

 

Level 5: Animal Growth, Cure Critical Wounds, Iron Skins(?), Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire, Raise Dead/Recall Spirit, True Seeing

 

Level 6: Regeneration

 

Level 7/HLA: Energy Blades

 

Recommended Spells: D2 Necromancers
I recommend the D2 Necromancers get access to these spells as well due to adapting to the BG rule set.  (Remember, necromancy involves power over life and death, and Clerics and D2 Necromancers have significant overlap in what sorts of debuffs/maladies they inflict.)  Most the recommended spell additions are things that a typical Cleric is assumed to have like Dispel, healing, and status prevention/removal effects.  Others are just thematic to the Necromancer, like Finger of Death.

Level 1: Cure Light Wounds, Protection from Evil, Resist Fear

Level 2: Resist Fire/Cold

 

Level 3: Cure Disease, Cure Medium Wounds, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Remove Curse, Remove Paralysis

 

Level 4: Cure Serious Wounds, Death Ward, Free Action/Freedom of Movement, Lesser Restoration, Protection from Evil 10' Radius, Neutralize Poison

 

Level 5: Animal Growth, Chaotic Commands(?), Cure Critical Wounds, Magic Resistance(?), Mass Cure, Protection from Acid/Cold/Electricity/Fire, Raise Dead, Repulse Undead, Slay Living, True Seeing

 

Level 6: Harm(?), Heal

 

Level 7/HLA: Command Undead, Finger of Death, Greater Restoration, Mass Raise Dead, Resurrection, Symbol of Death


Sorceress
Telekinesis seems like a handy replacement for Knock as a level 2 spell.  Spell Revisions changes Knock to Battering Ram which is similar in essence to what D2's Telekinesis is doing.  (This skill in D2 is available early and it should likewise be available early with this mod.  It isn't worth a level 6 spell slot, especially when compared to an ability of the same level which grants a D2 mercenary!)

Necromancer: Misc
The default hair color should be white.

Wild Magic
It isn't clear what non-spell abilities count as magic for purposes of antimagic and wild magic.  Pweath list them!

Unsummon
This should be an innate ability and not a spell.  (Dismissing hostile summons is best suited as another ability.)

Replacing Skill Points Buttons When Not Used
Note how you replace the Offensive/Defensive Auras buttons after using them, regardless of the selection after clicking.

D2 Items
Adding Gheed as a vendor to the exterior of Watcher's Keep seems like a fair way to handle including these items.  (Gheed was planned as a merchant for D1 but was scrapped.  He's definitely in D2 and one of my favorite NPCs!)  The items may be best done in a separate mod or component.

Configurable Hotkeys for Scripts
I would much like configurable hotkeys for scripts because other mods use D as a hotkey for something.  Refer to Enhanced Powergaming Scripts for an example.
 

Code Help
Others on the Gibberlings3 Forum may be able to help you more.  CamDawg can likely get you access to posting updates on the G3 releases forum, and if you post a link to your mod here, expect it to be added to the EET mod compatibility list.  (To my understanding, the D2 kit mods are EET compatible.)  Others will be more positively responsive to your work if you mention it.

Bug?
Why can the D2 Necromancer Cleric only be Human when other D2 kits can be other races?  I'd like all races to be able to be all kits.

Finally for Now
Thankee!  Alleluia!
 


Edited by Endarire, 12 December 2022 - 10:04 PM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Diablo2, Kit, Diablo II