16 replies to this topic

[temnix]

In addition to the usual "little pile of stuff" for dropped equipment, there are is another BAM icon, but I've never seen it used in the games. Here it is:

 

 

How do I get that icon to show? Is it a matter of the worth of the pile? Number of items?

[Miloch]

It's gtreas02.bam (or its duplicate gtreas03.bam), unused in the vanilla game. The little pile is gtreas01, used for a lot of random items, including some gems for some reason, which is dumb because there is a gem ground icon (ggem01.bam).

 

If you want to use it, create an item and assign gtreas02 as its ground icon. In theory, you could make a "treasure chest" container this way that holds other items (slightly more complex as you'd have to create the associate .sto file etc.).

[temnix]

Somehow you always answer the wrong questions, Miloch. Of course I could make an item that uses it, I want to know whether it appears naturally anywhere, and how to get it appear, and whether icons override each other - for example, how do two gemstones in the same pile show, with the stone icon or the basic pile icon, and so on.

[Miloch]

Well, maybe you don't ask the questions or read the responses right. I did answer your first two questions:

1) "whether it appears naturally anywhere" => "unused in the vanilla game" (i.e., no)
2) "how to get it to appear" => "create an item and assign gtreas02 as its ground icon" (there is no other good way to do this; ground icons are only for items, not spells etc.)

If #2 is still not clear, you would need to place the item in the game, obviously. There are several options for this: put it in a nonvisible area container (in which, in the idea I suggested, the item becomes the container itself), or put it on CREs who'll drop it when they die. You could also put it in a store, but players won't see the ground icon unless they drop it.

As for 3) "whether icons override each other"... This question wasn't clear previously... possibly because you didn't really ask it. I forget offhand how it works exactly, but I think the last item dropped (in the CRE's inventory) is the first you'll see on the ground. Easy to test anyway if you have the game handy, which I don't. The implied question for the small pile (gtreas01.bam) is that you'll usually see it for misc07.itm, aka Gold Piece, and as I said, certain gems. The amount doesn't matter; the ground icon displays whether it's a pile of one or one thousand.

I remember the details about the chest because we were going to implement it (along with a number of unused icons) in Aurora's Shoes. We ended up making our chest icons though, but still used the unused treasure chest description icon (cmisc03.bam). I don't think I ever got to my original idea though, which was to have random "richer" CREs drop actual treasure chests, some of which might be locked and/or trapped and would contain other random loot. I miss older games that had that feature, and made thief skills more important (if it weren't already). It would also be a bit more realistic (a la the "Realistic random treasures" component of the mod).

[temnix]

Okay, I figured it out. The icon to show for a mixed bag is the icon of the first item to be dropped - the first one that is in excess of the creature's inventory. So to get a particular icon (item) to appear, you need an invisible minion with the inventory full. Then you assign it a self-destruction script that starts with creation of the items you want to be left lying on the ground. Like this:

 

CreateItem("your special",0,0,0)

... all those others

...

...

 

You'll have to think about explaining away the special item, in my case the whole thing is a stash, so I can make it a box. I'll use that description BAM. Can just be useless, but it'll set the icon.

 

You could also give the creature others' items, lots of actions for that. Pooling. Just make sure you create your special box or whatever on the minion first.

 

Spawning chests would be a good idea, just difficult. An invisible minion again, probably, with dialogue. You'd have to come up with all the rest.

[Miloch]

What is it with you and invisible minions? Usually those crop up only as hacks when no other method is feasible.

If your goal is to have *random* creatureless drops just lying about, I guess that works. But as you'd say, you'd have to explain why they're unguarded and unlooted. And you wouldn't need a script to create the item, as you could just put it in inventory as you would normally (though I suppose you're scripting it to DestroySelf anyway, so whatever works...).

Otherwise, I'd recommend what I said: either placing them as nonvisible area containers (meaning you'll see only the ground icon as if someone dropped it) or on actual (visible) creatures.

[temnix]

You know there is no way to create real containers, like map chests. Only fake them with something that will respond.

[Miloch]

Of course you can create real containers, both area containers (like loose piles, chests you open, etc.) and item/.sto file combos (like scroll cases, bags of holding, etc.).

[temnix]

With area editing, you mean? That's not what I was talking about. Editing areas belongs with creating them whole-cloth - the best thing there is, sure. I hope someone will make entire new games, and in better taste than Beamdog. But I'm only interested in what I can do nomadically - universally and flexibly, and sometimes randomly, in existing environments. By the way, I just tried giving my randomly flying invisible seagull, the one entrusted with quartermaster duties, a few items in excess of its inventory capacity. I thought they would end up in the same pile starting with the first item dropped, as I thought it happens, but I was wrong - all of the items get dropped in order, with their own icons. Spider body, bottle of wine, Duke Eltan... I guess I'm going to have to either settle for a messy hoard and set up a guardian or create an invisible stripper minion and give it the big chest appearance.

 

[temnix]

Okay, I'm going to have to ask you about containers and sto files. One of us is probably wrong about something, or we aren't on the same page. Here is what I know: almost all objects that the engine's scripts recognize are creatures - either fixed references, like Player1, or flexible like Nearest. The only objects that are not creatures are NearestDoor and its derivatives, and they don't quite work correctly. There is nothing about chests, barrels, corpses and other containers, which is to say stuff-holders somewhere on the map. It's possible to refer to them, apparently, for the Lock() and Unlock() actions, though they don't have anything like creature script names. Maybe the name of the object in the area file, usually just "Container 1" etc., is used? In any event, it's all about containers that are built into an area. Given this, I don't understand your words about how you wanted to implement dropping chests that would be trapped, pickable and so on. It doesn't seem possible. The only approximation that comes to my mind is an invisible minion that would look like a chest and could be interacted with and manipulated through dialogue.

 

Now, it's better for my invisible seagull to carry its stuff in a package rather than let it tumble to the ground in a jumble. So I'm going to give it a bag of holding, a chest of holding that is, and that chest will wear a ton. Don't want to give players a freebie BoH. But how can I put creatures' stuff there directly? I see this action on the list:

MoveContainerContents("BD0120*Imoen_import_eq","BD0103*Imoen_equipment")

 

An example here. There seems to be confusion about what a container is. On one hand, there are your standard bags of holding and gem bags that have simple short filenames, like everything else, and no place for a script name or anything of the sort, or any special function therein. The items are simply of the "Container" type. On the other hand, there are containers on maps, and they, I take it, can have long names like above and respond to Lock() and Unlock(). I don't know if a creature's inventory is of the same type - what is "Imoen equipment," anyway? And, on the third hand, what do sto files have to do with any of this? I see that there is a "bag of holding" type of store, and I guess I could get the party to browse it with StartStore(), but there is no connection here to actual bags of holding carried around, is there?

Edited by temnix, 30 August 2017 - 08:53 AM.

[temnix]

P.S. Here, a freebie desc. image for those in need of a chest. Found it online, transformed-adapted. It's a Baroque to 19th century chest, too, which is good. The IE games aren't set in a medieval milieu, they're Renaissance.

 

Attached Files

•  STASH_#.BAM   2.48K   85 downloads

[Almateria]

Literally every bag of holding is a store.

[The Imp]

Literally every bag . is a store.

.. is actually more correct, as the "holding" just buy's and sells multiple kinds of items, while the bag of "gems" just hold the few type's of stuff.

The fact that they "store" stuff comes from the pricing factor, as it's usually zero on bags, while everything else, inns etc uses actual non zero monetary value.

Spoiler

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
BEGIN ~The Imps store price rule and item stack amounts~ DESIGNATED 2

COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.sto~ ~override~
READ_LONG 0x14 ~price~
PATCH_IF !(price = 0) BEGIN
WRITE_LONG 0x14 ~150~ //we set all the stores that actually sell stuff to sell them at the same rates
WRITE_LONG 0x18 ~50~ //and buy them at a same rates too, this way if you use 3000 gold, you get a 1000 back when selling
END
PATCH_IF (price = 0) BEGIN
WRITE_SHORT 0x22 ~32000~ //bags etc to contains almost unlimited, but not borged amounts of item
END
BUT_ONLY

COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
READ_SHORT 0x38 ~stackamount~
PATCH_IF (stackamount > 1) BEGIN
WRITE_SHORT 0x38 ~1000~
END
BUT_ONLY

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Edited by The Imp, 31 August 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[temnix]

Hey, anybody tried adding rooms to a bag? You know, if it's that spacious...

[Almateria]

Add drinking as an option, call the item a decanter of endless booze

 

 

AND THEY'RE THE SAME WOUNDROUS ITEM CATEGORY IMP SU C

 

e: also a bag of holding has only 10 minutes of air in it, according to d&D rules!!

Edited by Almateria, 31 August 2017 - 01:28 PM.

[The Imp]

e: also a bag of holding has only 10 minutes of air in it, according to d&D rules!!

Depending on which ruleset you play with... as the new ones(5ed) actually say that they hold no air... you can last for the 10 mins in the bag if you can hold your breath there for that long, CON save etc.

And of course if the plane has other effects, you could for example hold your breath extensively as there can be time dilation. Or monsters inside. Ouh, yeah, the later doesn't help like the former, hmm, maybe.

[temnix]

That's actually a cool idea, Imp - monsters in bags of holding.