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Convert half-elves to the HUMAN_LOW avatars?


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#1 temnix

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:13 AM

Unlike gnomes, perhaps, the HUMAN_LOW avatar for all of the classes is perfectly working and complete, albeit not used by any NPC (regrettable and something to fix at another time). For those not in the know, it's a human figure about 6 inches shorter and a little slimmer. I think it would make sense to use these avatars for half-elves instead of the straight shorty elf they get now. But how to do that? Would a simple Weidu patching of CRE + an on-creation morph for the main character work? It would be good to have something more fixed than a polymorph, though, in case the character needs to use e.g. the PolymorphCopy action, as with my scheduled Change Self, and then go back to some avatar or other. Would be better to overwrite the defaults for races with a view to this.

 

Comparison: Jaheira the ELF and Jaheira the HUMAN_LOW.

 

Jaheira.jpg


Edited by temnix, 14 March 2018 - 11:21 AM.


#2 The Imp

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:32 AM

COPY_EXISTING ~.cre~ ~override~
read if is male
read if class is cleric
read if is halfelf
PATCH_IF is elf THEN
plah plah plah
PATCH_IF is cleric THEN
WRITE_ASCIIE ~0x0028~ ~0x5000~

Assuming of course that the animate.ids says this:
0x5000 CLERIC_MALE_HUMAN_LOW

The games might not use the _LOW's so much cause the originals didn't, and the Infinity Animations removed all of them, to make room for more animations ... as they were originally all named in the bgmain.exe ... and the IA had to edit those to get slots.

Edited by The Imp, 14 March 2018 - 12:03 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#3 temnix

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 10:12 AM

I know how to patch creatures to use this avatar. I still would like a more permanent solution that would apply to all half-elves, including the main character. What is it that makes the engine choose the ELF avatars for them? That's where I would aim at, at that IDS or 2DA.



#4 Miloch

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

Hardcoded, I'm sure. See what I said about your similar question about converting gnome avatars. However, I would require more proof than the screenshots above that the _LOW animation is any different than the existing normal ones. That would certainly be news to me.


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#5 temnix

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 12:15 PM

No offense, Miloch, but I get the impression that a lot of things are news to you. The LOW avatars are called low because they are low. If you want to see that for yourself, just boot up the old Near Infinity and make someone with that figure... Low halflings are particularly cute. I might repopulate Gullykin with them. As for my idea, I guess for the main character conversion would have to use a few globals for the engine files. If race is half-elf and class such-and-such, then replace and set global. Later morphs would look at the global when coming back from Change Self.



#6 subtledoctor

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Posted 19 March 2018 - 05:46 PM

If by "no offense" you mean "lots of offense," then yeah. Christ, at least have the balls not to be wishy-washy about it... :P

#7 Miloch

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 07:06 AM

If by "no offense" you mean "lots of offense," then yeah. Christ, at least have the balls not to be wishy-washy about it...

Touché, subtledoctor.

 

As for trollnix, who seems to ask for a lot of advice but doesn't actually want any, I'll give some anyway, maybe this last time. Give me the BAM (animation file) names that determine the _LOW vs. normal avatars, and we'll go from there. Or not, as the case may be.


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"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle


#8 Gwendolyne

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 08:16 AM

Many years ago, when I started creating-porting creatures animations, I checked all vanilla animations. I also checked how the characters ones dealt with coloration (in a crazy dream to write a WeidU function creating CRE files from scratch :crazy: ).

 

In the end, LOW animation is not a matter of size and does not mean they are lower than regular ones. In fact, they are mostly different. I digged up very old screenshots I made at that time. For example, look at the female fighter, cleric and thief regular and low animations:

 

freddy_gwendo-albums-divers-modding-pict

freddy_gwendo-albums-divers-modding-pict

 

 

Moreover, I found that a few were buggy: they did not support some pieces of equipment and caused a CTD when equipping your cre file with them. Don't ask me which equipment and which animations, I don't remember.


Edited by Gwendolyne, 20 March 2018 - 10:19 AM.

CARPE DIEM ....
 

In progress : Menace sur le Royaume de Diamant Éternel there.


#9 temnix

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 09:25 AM

Offense or no offense, that's up to you whether to find any or take it. I'm looking for informed and responsible replies, not fingers pointing randomly. That's why Gwendolyne is the one I'm going to respond, and object to. You don't give enough details about what's actually wrong with the low avatars, you say you don't remember. That's unfortunate. I can say that I've made a few creatures with those avatars within recent memory, gave them standard equipment without thinking twice about it, and I have yet to see any issues. And as for height, they really are lower and slimmer. As usual, everyone is free to test these things with their eyes and hands, though I'm sure few will seize on this invitation.



#10 The Imp

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 10:59 AM

And as for height, they really are lower and slimmer. As usual, everyone is free to test these things with their eyes and hands, though I'm sure few will seize on this invitation.
Well, from what I can see from Gwendolyne's pictures, I see no height difference... But that doesn't mean that it's not there in the EE games, as the above pictures are most assurely from the non-EE games.
Yeah, no one decided to mention this factor .. probably because you Termix forgot to say it as well.
Or it could be that as most of us(yes, I count myself in the non-EE slot on this one), uses an avatar changing scripts(it's technically not a script per say, but also an inventory hack that changes the avatar ... plah plah plah) that mix the look of the avatar not based on a class, but purely on the of the armor. Now, as you would know if you had the old game without mods, the class was the only thing that was the primary factor that dictated what the character looked like in the game, when you wore a set of armor. Or didn't look like. A mage with full plate armor looks like a mage without an armor, because the armor levels are no robe, robe, and full robe. Same like thing will likely happen with a lot of the _LOW animations. Yes, this is "fixed" by multiple mods for the normal avatars. Now you would know this, if you weren't so new at this, all while Miloch on the other hand is not(take his words, rather than mine though). Cause he was here when the avatar changing scheme builds was introduced, building mods that had them and related stuff, being friend with Erephine. Which tells all of us that you underestimated the whole deal, ignoring or just not wanting to know it. Which is why I am not going to tell you who Erephine is.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#11 subtledoctor

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Posted 20 March 2018 - 11:00 AM

To be clear, I was *not* calling Miloch wishy-washy...

#12 temnix

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Posted 21 March 2018 - 08:54 AM

This mod would need to include a reminder to be wise when installing it with other avatar-changing mods.



#13 Miloch

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Posted 22 March 2018 - 05:02 AM

To be clear, I was *not* calling Miloch wishy-washy...

Well, I think we understood that. I can be wishy, but rarely washy.


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#14 temnix

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 11:02 AM

A washer is a piece of rubber that no one cares about, except when it gets leaking. Even then, I don't need discussions of washers in my thread.

 

Here is a comparison between Minsc using his standard fighter's avatar and the LOW version of it.

 

Minsc - BIG.jpg

 

Minsc - SMALL.jpg

 

This is a ring that temporary switches one's avatar to CLERIC-FIGHTER-THIEF-MAGE, FEMALE-MALE - in this order of abilities. Take it and test for problems with the LOW avatars.

 

Attached File  +HERING.ITM   946bytes   164 downloads



#15 GeN1e

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Posted 23 March 2018 - 01:09 PM

I see no difference on screenshots. Also I assume that "low" refers to low/high quality (whatever it actually means) rather than short/tall height.


Edited by GeN1e, 23 March 2018 - 01:10 PM.

Retired from modding.


#16 temnix

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 04:50 AM

Ardanis, I respect you too much to suggest that you get an eye chart. Look, they are about 5% smaller.



#17 The Imp

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 05:03 AM

Look, they are about 5% smaller.

And you couldn't take a picture with two of them side by side ? ZOOMED IN ? But a lot of them in different pictures... how, well you just use the code above... like so a .tp2 action(let's assume a BG1EE game as a standard):

COPY_EXISTING ~ajanti.cre~ ~override/ajantisl.cre~
WRITE_ASCIIE ~0x0028~ ~0x6100~ //this is the non_low version

COPY_EXISTING ~ajanti.cre~ ~override/ajantiss.cre~
WRITE_ASCIIE ~0x0028~ ~0x5100~ //this is the _low version

Start the game, and just use the console commands:

C:CreateCreature("ajantisl")
C:CreateCreature("ajantiss")

And take pictures... ZOOMED IN in EE.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#18 Ulb

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 05:33 AM

Well, according to their ini files those animations use the same bam files so I don't see how one of them could possibly be different from the other.

 

// CHMC cleric_male_human

[general]
animation_type=6000
move_scale=9
ellipse=16
color_blood=47
color_chunks=0
sound_freq=5
personal_space=3
cast_frame=4

[character]
armor_max_code=4
can_lie_down=1
detected_by_infravision=1
double_blit=0
equip_helmet=1
split_bams=1
false_color=1
height_code=WQL
height_code_helmet=WQL
height_code_shield=
resref=CHMB
resref_paperdoll=CHMC
resref_armor_base=B
resref_armor_specific=C


***

// CHMC cleric_male_human_low

[general]
animation_type=5000
move_scale=9
ellipse=16
color_blood=47
color_chunks=0
sound_freq=5
personal_space=3
cast_frame=4

[character]
armor_max_code=4
can_lie_down=1
detected_by_infravision=1
double_blit=0
equip_helmet=1
split_bams=1
false_color=1
height_code=WQL
height_code_helmet=WQL
height_code_shield=
resref=CHMB
resref_paperdoll=CHMC
resref_armor_base=B
resref_armor_specific=C

Apart from that, calling one "LOW" because it is smaller just doesn't make much sense from a grammar perspective.



#19 Ulb

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Posted 24 March 2018 - 05:37 AM

OH also, if those really were 5% smaller that would mean there would also have to be scaled down versions of pretty much every equippable appearance.



#20 temnix

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Posted 25 March 2018 - 04:58 AM

Never mind the grammar, but I have to agree that if they use the same animations, they must be of the same size. A case of observer's bias on my part, apparently.