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BGT v1.21: Issues, Solutions and Suggestions


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#41 Kilivitz

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:01 AM

Kilivitz: Sorry in case this was already said, but does your patch fix bugs or does it make changes? If you are fixing bugs, I'd be thrilled if you'd make an update to the original TutuGUI from PPG, I'd see to it being put on the main page.

 

If you are doing changes only, I think a patch is a great way to do this.

I'd say it's not so much fixing or tweaking as it is finishing it. Pretty much all I've done was to adjust font faces, colors and the buttons on the Character Generation screen so the GUI will match the original BG1 as closely as possible.

 

The only straight-out change I've done is in an optional component, which makes the window borders all-stone in lieu of the wood-and-stone currently used.

 

Hello Kilivitz!

 

What I did was to change the BGT start screens completely (BGTSOA.mos, BGTSTART.mos and startob.mod) and to fix two alignment issues for the CUSTOMIZED CHARACTER line and for the first proficiency slot for Missile weapons (guirec.chu).

 

I took care of the first two and skellytz took care of the other.

 

I have attached here the file that contains both fixes.

 

Feel free to add it to your patch together with the new files I created, if you like.

 

Cheers!

So these screens are meant for BGT, right? I guess the installer could detect a BGT install in order to copy the files or not.

 

I thought of messing around with the start screens to make the stone menu centralized as in the original game. Then the BG1 start screen could be made almost identical to the original.

 

I've made a gallery with some comparison images:

https://tinyurl.com/romtawu

 

jastey,

 

I think that we have material to release a new version of TuTuGUI. 

 

It would be mostly for BGT players' benefit but it would still be a nice upgrade, in my opinion.

 

Cheers!

If I had blessing from the current maintainers (I take it LadeJarl has left?), I could incorporate these adjustments (along with Salk's BGT start screens) into the main mod and provide a version 19. Hell, I'd actually be thrilled to do it.



#42 jastey

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:49 AM

I know this sounds horribly ignorant, but would you summarize the changes / updates you would do in a sentence, then I would write an email to LadeJarl (not sure it will reach him, but we won't know before we try).

All in all what I read so far sounds like a really great update and addition so I'd be all for a new version!



#43 Arthas

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:24 AM

Would it be possible to make the UI change when switching from BG1 to BG2, for the authentic experience? Or would you need to uninstall it? 



#44 The Imp

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:00 AM

Would it be possible to make the UI change when switching from BG1 to BG2, for the authentic experience? Or would you need to uninstall it? 
Not within BGT's scope. But the EE game have this already. Wow, that happened.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
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#45 Kilivitz

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 12:04 PM

I know this sounds horribly ignorant, but would you summarize the changes / updates you would do in a sentence, then I would write an email to LadeJarl (not sure it will reach him, but we won't know before we try).

All in all what I read so far sounds like a really great update and addition so I'd be all for a new version!

 

This new release of TutuGUI would squash some bugs, finish implementing the BG1 visuals and revamp the start screens.

 

(I guess that's the best long-winded me can do)



#46 skellytz

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 02:28 PM

I've attempted to restore the original BG1 start background. What do you think?

 

Also, I think BG1 fonts should be an optional component because some languages won't be supported. How about adding a subcomponent to install the bigger TotSC CD font too?



#47 Salk

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 03:57 PM

Looks great to me, skellytz.

#48 Kilivitz

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 07:07 PM

I've attempted to restore the original BG1 start background. What do you think?

 

As a coincidence (and inspired by Salk's new images) I tried my hand at some new start screens, not only using the glorious BG1 original background, but also some new stuff using some official artwork.

 

Here it is: https://imgur.com/a/N9kbMhp

 

What do you guys think?

 

Also, I think BG1 fonts should be an optional component because some languages won't be supported. How about adding a subcomponent to install the bigger TotSC CD font too?

 

You know, I was wondering why, after going through all the trouble, LadeJarl hadn't restored the fonts as this is arguably the easiest part. It only now occurred to me this must be the reason - languages with characters not supported by BG1's fonts.

 

I guess the solution would be to leave restored fonts to an optional component, or maybe have the installer bypass that part of the install process in case the user has chosen a non-supported language. That would be possible, yes?

 

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

 

P.S.: I apologize for sort of derailing the discussion - perhaps we should move to a specific thread, or is this relevant enough for BGT's next release?



#49 skellytz

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:16 PM

 I tried my hand at some new start screens, not only using the glorious BG1 original background, but also some new stuff using some official artwork.

I was actually hoping you'd come up with those ;)

 

Feedback time:

 

1. All the options with the original background are great, except for the framed, over-emphasized, EE-ish "Trilogy" label. Personally, I would have preferred it to look more like the frameless SoA and ToB ones. The same applies to the "And" label in the BGT TotSC + SoA screen. They simply stand out too much.

 

2. I like the new backgrounds too (the new ToB is the best!). It would be cool to see them as alternatives to the original (ie, in a subcomponent).

 

I guess the solution would be to leave restored fonts to an optional component, or maybe have the installer bypass that part of the install process in case the user has chosen a non-supported language. That would be possible, yes?

That's right; Personally, I'd go with an optional component with two subcomponents: original BG1 and bigger TotSC variants.
 

I apologize for sort of derailing the discussion - perhaps we should move to a specific thread, or is this relevant enough for BGT's next release?

No problem; I'm happy that you finally decided to show up here. You're right though -- this discussion should be moved to a separate thread.

 

I'll try to figure out how to fix the widescreen issues we discussed the other time (a few pieces get messed-up when extended by the Widescreen mod). Perhaps it will also be possible to tweak Widescreen not to overstretch the dialogue box.



#50 jastey

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 10:39 PM

Unfortunately, LadeJarl's email wasn't working any more. I sent a request to jcompton and Kulyok and am waiting for an answer. In the past, though, Kulyok would do the updates on the PPG page and trust my appraisal if it comes to new mod versions. I'll let you know when I get an answer.

 

The SHS software is funky and e.g. merging threads does not work any more but destroys posts. I could try to split off the TutuGUI discussion in a separate thread but I'm scared posts might vanish in the process.



#51 The Imp

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:08 PM

Perhaps it will also be possible to tweak Widescreen not to overstretch the dialogue box.


And what would you replace it with ? See the overstreching is only a consequence of lateral extension, as there's no art behind it, except empty space/normal map that multiple times also is already extended beyond the normal size, as the maps are quite small, so the widescreen mod adds in a black space into it. Besides, you can always use a larger font size, which will restrain the oversize feel. All the while knowing that when you use the widescreen mod, you need to use a resolution size that is not over extended as is, so even if your monitor 28" can do a 3840x2160, you shouldn't use that resolution as the pixels per inc is over the end use case. You can, but should you try, no.

You could use 960x540, if the 1920x1080 seems off, as it means that the dialog box is no longer that much streched over the original, in proportion.


Edited by The Imp, 14 January 2020 - 11:43 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#52 Arthas

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:20 AM

Unfortunately, LadeJarl's email wasn't working any more. I sent a request to jcompton and Kulyok and am waiting for an answer. In the past, though, Kulyok would do the updates on the PPG page and trust my appraisal if it comes to new mod versions. I'll let you know when I get an answer.

 

The SHS software is funky and e.g. merging threads does not work any more but destroys posts. I could try to split off the TutuGUI discussion in a separate thread but I'm scared posts might vanish in the process.

Any chance you could also tell Jcompton that we would like to see Nalia ToB romance? Ehehehe



#53 Salk

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:48 AM

Kilivitz, I agree with skellytz' feedback about the new screens.

 

The "Trilogy" and "and" inside what looks like a heart don't belong to the image composition. 

We need internal consistency with both font and style.

 

My recommendation for BGT is the following:

 

For the main screen, go for the BGT Main Start, BG1-style background with two variations:

 

1) change the overemphasized "Trilogy" with something more subtle and consistent with the Baldur's Gate font/style above.

2) replace Shadow of Amn with Baldur's Gate so that the player's first selection is between Baldur's Gate and Throne of Bhaal

 

Then I would choose:

 

BGT (BG1 + SoA Start, new background) with two variations:

 

1) change the overemphasized "and" with something more subtle and consistent (same recommendation as above)

2) resize the three games names so that there is a better proportion because the way it is "Tales of the Sword Coast" takes as much space as Baldur's Gate and Shadows of Amn together

 

BG2/BGT (ToB Start, new background) with one variation:

 

1) change the "Throne of Bhaal" line color to match the "Baldur's Gate II" color and move it a little more down

 

Cheers!


Edited by Salk, 15 January 2020 - 04:49 AM.


#54 Arthas

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 04:58 AM

Was the chanting in Candlekeep (Bg1) corrected? Referring to the people reciting Alaundo's prophecy.



#55 skellytz

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 05:56 AM

replace Shadow of Amn with Baldur's Gate so that the player's first selection is between Baldur's Gate and Throne of Bhaal

This is already done by BGT setup; the screenshots were simply taken in BG2 with the unchanged strings.
 

Was the chanting in Candlekeep (Bg1) corrected? Referring to the people reciting Alaundo's prophecy.

Lolfixer
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#56 Arthas

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:56 AM

Thanks.
By the way, is what's written inside Lolfixer page correct? That BWP has an updated version? (just curious, not planning to use Lolfixer).



#57 skellytz

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:13 AM

It will be possible to tweak the text width as a post-Widescreen component (by patching the text area width value in the CHU files). The few affected MOS backgrounds can also be easily edited so that Widescreen doesn't mess them up in MOS_EXTEND (some button frames will have to be removed).

 

@Kilivitz I'll try to take care of these and send you the files and component code.


Edited by skellytz, 15 January 2020 - 11:54 AM.


#58 The Imp

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 11:26 AM

It will be possible to tweak the text width as a post-Widescreen patch component.
Ask people to use ENTER more, in their romance etc mods. So really, NOT. Unless you make a Replace_Textually mod that replaces every "." with a ".
".

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#59 Kilivitz

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 01:02 PM

Feedback time:

 

1. All the options with the original background are great, except for the framed, over-emphasized, EE-ish "Trilogy" label. Personally, I would have preferred it to look more like the frameless SoA and ToB ones. The same applies to the "And" label in the BGT TotSC + SoA screen. They simply stand out too much.

 

The "Trilogy" and "and" inside what looks like a heart don't belong to the image composition. 

 

Yeah, It doesn't look too good, does it? I actually took that from Beamdog's EE logo (which is much wider). Don't worry - I'll go for something more consistent with the original logos.

 

As for the other changes, I'll actually redo all the logos to be more visually consistent (in terms of the shades of gold/yellow and such). Then we can have the BG1-style screens as default and the alternative backgrounds as an optional component. Or maybe the other way around, I don't know.

 

It's too bad the original engine won't allow BG and SoA to be treated as separate campaigns a la EET - we have to adopt the less optimal solution of cramming "Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast AND Shadows of Amn" in the same screen while the smaller portion of the saga (ToB) gets a start screen all to itself.

 

It will be possible to tweak the text width as a post-Widescreen component (by patching the text area width value in the CHU files). The few affected MOS backgrounds can also be easily edited so that Widescreen doesn't mess them up in MOS_EXTEND (some button frames will have to be removed).

 

@Kilivitz I'll try to take care of these and send you the files and component code.

 

Wonderful! I'm sorry I haven't had the time to look into the issues you'd reported to me.

 

The key, I believe, is to be able to dynamically set the width of the lower panels while having a fixed width for the dialogue box. This mod by ikomonov has a great solution but it's merely a patch you apply after setting resolution to 1280x720 using the Widescreen mod.

 

Now, I personally think that  regardless of your monitor size, anything over 768p is too much to play comfortably, but there's no stopping anyone who wants to make the game 1080p, right?

 

Perhaps it will also be possible to tweak Widescreen not to overstretch the dialogue box.


And what would you replace it with ? See the overstreching is only a consequence of lateral extension, as there's no art behind it, except empty space/normal map that multiple times also is already extended beyond the normal size, as the maps are quite small, so the widescreen mod adds in a black space into it. Besides, you can always use a larger font size, which will restrain the oversize feel. All the while knowing that when you use the widescreen mod, you need to use a resolution size that is not over extended as is, so even if your monitor 28" can do a 3840x2160, you shouldn't use that resolution as the pixels per inc is over the end use case. You can, but should you try, no.

You could use 960x540, if the 1920x1080 seems off, as it means that the dialog box is no longer that much streched over the original, in proportion.

 

Again, this mod does it. It fills the empty space with graphics. Not impossible to do using Photoshop. The only thing in the way is find a way to make it dynamically while keeping the dialogue box the same size.


Edited by Kilivitz, 15 January 2020 - 01:03 PM.


#60 skellytz

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 01:44 PM

The key, I believe, is to be able to dynamically set the width of the lower panels while having a fixed width for the dialogue box. This mod by ikomonov has a great solution but it's merely a patch you apply after setting resolution to 1280x720 using the Widescreen mod.

The simplest solution I have in mind is letting Widescreen extend the TuTu GUI dialogue box MOS backgrounds and CHU values normally, but allow the player to optionally patch the affected CHU dialogue text width with a set value (it can be done before Widescreen). The dialogue box will be much wider than the text (as shown in my screenshots), but it doesn't look that bad and doesn't mess with Widescreen. You retain compatibility and save a lot of time that would be spent on creating new MOS replacements that would be needed for detaching the dialogue box from the side panels.

 

A centered dialogue box with a dynamic width would be awesome, but would either require changing Widescreen code or, like you said, overwriting the MOS and CHU files on top of it (restricting the player's resolution options like ikonomov's mod). Moreover, Widescreen tends to push most other elements towards the left anyways; these would also have to be adjusted to complete the new look. A lot of busy work which will most likely get in the way of Widescreen allowing for custom resolutions. Worth it?


Edited by skellytz, 16 January 2020 - 08:15 AM.