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Can number of attacks per round of non-fighter classes be changed?


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#1 P. W. S.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 10:35 PM

It's well known that wspatck.2da contains the apr(attacks per round) of fighter classes, but it doesn't effect non-fighter classes. So is there a way to make non-fighter classes apr also increase with weapon proficiency? Is this in 2DA file or just hardcode? BTW, is this a standard AD&D rule, or just special in BG2?

#2 The Imp

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:22 PM

It's "hard coded" in non-EE BG2... but you can install the ToBEx and make it "soft coded".

And it's not a "Fighter", it's "Warrior", which include Paladins and Rangers, as well as their the twos duals.

 

If I were to make a proper install of this, one should edit the wspatck.2da so that the first line would only contain zero's. Reason being that you shouldn't be able to make multiple hits with a weapon you have no training on. Even if you are a soldier of multiple wars.


Edited by The Imp, 20 October 2019 - 11:31 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#3 P. W. S.

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Posted 20 October 2019 - 11:50 PM

It's "hard coded" in non-EE BG2... but you can install the ToBEx and make it "soft coded".
And it's not a "Fighter", it's "Warrior", which include Paladins and Rangers, as well as their the twos duals.
 
If I were to make a proper install of this, one should edit the wspatck.2da so that the first line would only contain zero's. Reason being that you shouldn't be able to make multiple hits with a weapon you have no training on. Even if you are a soldier of multiple wars.

Thanks! ToBEx changes many things... so how to deal with it if I want to change apr of non-warrior kits? All I did before is modifying the 2da or other files with DLTCEP...

#4 The Imp

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 12:36 AM

Is this on non-EE BG2 ?

If yes, then you just install the ToBEx and you will probably want to read the readme file... but essentially you just edit the .ini files with the options you want to enable. The readme explains this.

 

You don't exclusively just change kits, but the base rules, so every class and kit. Which is why the wspatck.2da shouldn't look like it does. But much rather it would be like this:

2DA V1.0
0
   LEVEL1 2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40
0    0    0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  
1    0    0  0  0  0  0  -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1
2    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
3    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
4    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2
5    1    1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2

 

The weapprof.2da file sets how many points you can place to the proficiencies for each kit ... and it can be edited so some kit gets higher amount of points to some proficiencies. Should it not be obvious, the -1 in the wspatck.2da file means 1 normal + 1/2 from profs. The 2 means: 1 normal + 1 from profs. And so on. There are a few other things that can effect this, like other equipment, and spell effects. Also the normal maximum is 5, unless the character is under either improved haste or a HLA effect where the max is 10, as it's the original doubled.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#5 P. W. S.

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 01:21 AM

Is this on non-EE BG2 ?
If yes, then you just install the ToBEx and you will probably want to read the readme file... but essentially you just edit the .ini files with the options you want to enable. The readme explains this.
 
You don't exclusively just change kits, but the base rules, so every class and kit. Which is why the wspatck.2da shouldn't look like it does. But much rather it would be like this:
2DA V1.00   LEVEL1 2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 400    0    0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  1    0    0  0  0  0  0  -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  12    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -23    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -24    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -25    1    1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2
 
The weapprof.2da file sets how many points you can place to the proficiencies for each kit ... and it can be edited so some kit gets higher amount of points to some proficiencies. Should it not be obvious, the -1 in the wspatck.2da file means 1 normal + 1/2 from profs. The 2 means: 1 normal + 1 from profs. And so on. There are a few other things that can effect this, like other equipment, and spell effects. Also the normal maximum is 5, unless the character is under either improved haste or a HLA effect where the max is 10, as it's the original doubled.

WoW thanx a lot~ I've never read the tobex doc, just setup following BWP script... I'll check if it works :D

#6 P. W. S.

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Posted 21 October 2019 - 05:38 PM

Is this on non-EE BG2 ?
If yes, then you just install the ToBEx and you will probably want to read the readme file... but essentially you just edit the .ini files with the options you want to enable. The readme explains this.
 
You don't exclusively just change kits, but the base rules, so every class and kit. Which is why the wspatck.2da shouldn't look like it does. But much rather it would be like this:
2DA V1.00   LEVEL1 2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 400    0    0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  1    0    0  0  0  0  0  -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  12    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -23    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -24    -1   -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1  1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -25    1    1  1  1  1  1  -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2 2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2  2
 
The weapprof.2da file sets how many points you can place to the proficiencies for each kit ... and it can be edited so some kit gets higher amount of points to some proficiencies. Should it not be obvious, the -1 in the wspatck.2da file means 1 normal + 1/2 from profs. The 2 means: 1 normal + 1 from profs. And so on. There are a few other things that can effect this, like other equipment, and spell effects. Also the normal maximum is 5, unless the character is under either improved haste or a HLA effect where the max is 10, as it's the original doubled.
Great! I didn't know ToBEx has 2 ini files until u told me, and there's really a switch that can make wspatck.2da available to all classses. Thank u very much!

Edited by P. W. S., 22 October 2019 - 11:16 PM.


#7 subtledoctor

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:44 AM

There is already a mod gor this on the classic engine. Just install Taimons WSPATCK for All from The Biggs Tweak Pack. I think its kept right here on SHS.

#8 The Imp

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 07:53 AM

There is already a mod gor this on the classic engine. Just install Taimons WSPATCK for All from The Biggs Tweak Pack. I think its kept right here on SHS.

Thing is, that uses ToBEx ... so you get nothing out of it. And the wspatck.2da that it uses is the original... which really is absurd if you look it from a mage point of view... being that not trained mage gets bonus attacks just cause he got mage levels without any proficiencies.

It's just fame named as Taimon's... not because he actually made it ... but because he originated the tweak that wasn't compatible with ToBEx ... and so when ToBEx added it, he got the name -fame... not that it's actually Taimon's.


Edited by The Imp, 30 October 2019 - 07:57 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#9 subtledoctor

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Posted 08 November 2019 - 01:51 PM

You are wrong - and wrong with your usual foolish confidence.

Anyone can apply the ToBEx setting and have every dumb mage get extra APR. TheBiggs mod actually sets it up such that everyone gets APR for Spec/GM, but only warrior get APR at level 7/13. Which seems to be what the OP was asking about.

The mod exists, some effort went into it and it works well... why would you discourage people from using it??

#10 The Imp

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Posted 09 November 2019 - 01:49 AM

You are wrong - and wrong with your usual foolish confidence.
...
The mod exists, some effort went into it and it works well... why would you discourage people from using it??
Right.
Because of, just like you said the last line in the wspatck.2da is so horrible... it should be zeroes across the board:
2DA V1.0
0
LEVEL1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40
0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
It makes no fucking sense. Cause of it, everyone gets APR even if they have no Weapon Prof points !!! So a mage gets APR with zero weapon utilization skill ! Just cause they are a 13th level mage. As would fighters. Which makes no sense either.
 
PS, I was talking about this:
hahahaha.jpg
The option number 1. But you could be talking about the other options... but I am not. The 3 is even more horrible... cause that makes even less sense.
Hmm, the option two actually tweaks the wspatck table itself during install. Setting the zero and 1 proff points to zeroes across the board. Interesting.

Edited by The Imp, 09 November 2019 - 03:54 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#11 subtledoctor

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Posted 20 November 2019 - 05:23 PM

I dont know why you think subcomponent #3 makes even less sense - in fact it does precisely what was asked for in the first post of this dumb thread.