Kinda.Well, actually a number of them were doable. Theoretically at least. As for anyone actually having the patience to sit down and do the 600+ different variations needed to make them work is another thing
Tables for Multiclasses
Started by Littiz, Feb 18 2004 01:43 AM
90 replies to this topic
#81
T.G.Maestro
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Posted 21 November 2004 - 12:46 AM
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#82
T.G.Maestro
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Posted 21 November 2004 - 06:25 AM
Well, I'm done with all the abilities planned and discussed here, except Heretic's Bane (or Smite Foe) for Fighter-Clerics. That one needs some scripting I fear, so it will fall to the hands of Littiz and The_Bigg.
I'll post the list of the final abilities once we finish the last touches on them and include them into the next alpha.
I'll post the list of the final abilities once we finish the last touches on them and include them into the next alpha.
Refinements v2 has been released!
Go and visit the website or the forum for more info!
Member of The Silver Star team.
#83
Littiz
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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:03 AM
How would you code the last one?- 1 additional 3rd, 4th and 5th level clerical and mage spell;
- -1 to spellcasting speed;
- spellcasting level (both for clerical and mage spells) is increased by 5. This means that if the caster would have cast a spell at level 20 before picking this ability, he'd cast it at level 25 thereafter.
Also, imho -1 to spellcasting speed is such a boost already that I'd wonder if a HLA should grant it at all.
Sorry, I explained the issues involved to TGM but I forgot to report back to youWell, actually a number of them were doable. Theoretically at least. As for anyone actually having the patience to sit down and do the 600+ different variations needed to make them work is another thing
I get it he told you then?
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#84
T.G.Maestro
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Posted 21 November 2004 - 09:47 AM
There is an opcode for this.How would you code the last one?
Maybe. Still, this ability needs to represent the benefits from the union of the two magical forms (arcane and divine). If you -or anyone- has any better ideas instead of these, its still not too late to share them!Also, imho -1 to spellcasting speed is such a boost already that I'd wonder if a HLA should grant it at all.
Ugh.. and I thought YOU explained it to Caedwyr...Sorry, I explained the issues involved to TGM but I forgot to report back to you
I get it he told you then?
..how embarassing.
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#85
PolarBear
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Posted 17 January 2005 - 02:19 PM
Hmm... I might be a bit late on this, but I have a couple of ideas aswell. I don't know if they all can be (or even should be) implemented tho.
Thief/Mage
"Animate" weapon
This is kind of a sword summoning spell (like mordenkainen's), but actually it would "consume" a sword in your inventory. It would be really cool if the summoned sword could get the extra abilities of its material origin.
But I see it's quite impossible to implement, yet there could be an alternative which would simply "fire" any sword like a projectile on an enemy. Sort of telekinesis.
Fighter/Mage
Craft magic item/weapon
Just what it says
Or imbue weapon (adding +1 to worn weapon temporarly) But that's also quite puzzling when it comes to implementation i guess).
Fighter/Druid
Nature's *something*
Basically a passive effect which would give the char some combat bonuses while in the wilderness, but nothing in the cities or inside areas.
Basically this abiliy is about uing every little bit of nature (a branch, a root or anything to gain advantage when fighting enemies.
That all what hits me at the moment. I didn't have the time to think them over tho.
Again, sorry if I am late on this one (the thread seems to be a bit abandoned).
Thief/Mage
"Animate" weapon
This is kind of a sword summoning spell (like mordenkainen's), but actually it would "consume" a sword in your inventory. It would be really cool if the summoned sword could get the extra abilities of its material origin.
But I see it's quite impossible to implement, yet there could be an alternative which would simply "fire" any sword like a projectile on an enemy. Sort of telekinesis.
Fighter/Mage
Craft magic item/weapon
Just what it says
Or imbue weapon (adding +1 to worn weapon temporarly) But that's also quite puzzling when it comes to implementation i guess).
Fighter/Druid
Nature's *something*
Basically a passive effect which would give the char some combat bonuses while in the wilderness, but nothing in the cities or inside areas.
Basically this abiliy is about uing every little bit of nature (a branch, a root or anything to gain advantage when fighting enemies.
That all what hits me at the moment. I didn't have the time to think them over tho.
Again, sorry if I am late on this one (the thread seems to be a bit abandoned).
#86
the bigg
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2083 is a prime number.
Posted 17 January 2005 - 02:41 PM
All of them are undoable, I fear, apart from Create Magic Item. And what's the pont of that one, huh? Why creating a generic +5 sword when you have +6 vorpal ones?Hmm... I might be a bit late on this, but I have a couple of ideas aswell. I don't know if they all can be (or even should be) implemented tho.
Thief/Mage
"Animate" weapon
This is kind of a sword summoning spell (like mordenkainen's), but actually it would "consume" a sword in your inventory. It would be really cool if the summoned sword could get the extra abilities of its material origin.
But I see it's quite impossible to implement, yet there could be an alternative which would simply "fire" any sword like a projectile on an enemy. Sort of telekinesis.
Fighter/Mage
Craft magic item/weapon
Just what it says
Or imbue weapon (adding +1 to worn weapon temporarly) But that's also quite puzzling when it comes to implementation i guess).
Fighter/Druid
Nature's *something*
Basically a passive effect which would give the char some combat bonuses while in the wilderness, but nothing in the cities or inside areas.
Basically this abiliy is about uing every little bit of nature (a branch, a root or anything to gain advantage when fighting enemies.
That all what hits me at the moment. I didn't have the time to think them over tho.
Again, sorry if I am late on this one (the thread seems to be a bit abandoned).
Even if it sound cool, anything that creates items in TOB is a plain waste of time (apart maybe from potions and scrolls, but I never use them anyway)...
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#87
T.G.Maestro
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Posted 18 January 2005 - 12:24 AM
As Bigg said.All of them are undoable, I fear, apart from Create Magic Item
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#88
PolarBear
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Posted 18 January 2005 - 01:55 AM
Yes, just as I feared. Nevermind then. About item making spells: you're right, they are all useless, but also they are very much okay roleplaying-wise. Like alchemy and scribe scrolls - they are not the choices of powergamers, but it still feels right to have them there.
I have no idea though, what kind of a magic weapon should that "spell" create since a +5 sword is not at all that appealing, just as you said. And also it could become an unlimited source of money if you keep selling the weapons you create (heh, meybe your char'll just buy a workshop and work as a local smithie and give up this whole Bhaal madness
forget what I said ).
I have no idea though, what kind of a magic weapon should that "spell" create since a +5 sword is not at all that appealing, just as you said. And also it could become an unlimited source of money if you keep selling the weapons you create (heh, meybe your char'll just buy a workshop and work as a local smithie and give up this whole Bhaal madness
forget what I said ).
#89
T.G.Maestro
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Posted 18 January 2005 - 02:20 AM
Yeh, originally I wanted to put in more of those for v2, like Herbalism for Druids or Craft Wand for mages (though I might still do this someday, once I manage to come to an agreement with Littiz about itAbout item making spells: you're right, they are all useless, but also they are very much okay roleplaying-wise. Like alchemy and scribe scrolls - they are not the choices of powergamers, but it still feels right to have them there.
), but most of these were dropped because of various reasons.Actually, a spell that would increase the enchantment bonus of a weapon for a limited time (or even permanently) could be a great addition, but as we already discussed several times, such an effect is not implementable.I have no idea though, what kind of a magic weapon should that "spell" create since a +5 sword is not at all that appealing, just as you said.
Edited by T.G.Maestro, 18 January 2005 - 02:21 AM.
Refinements v2 has been released!
Go and visit the website or the forum for more info!
Member of The Silver Star team.
#90
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Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:16 PM
People have already pointed out that the multi-class/dual-classes seem to have been neglected.
I'm not saying they should be all powerful or anything. I just don't think as much effort's gone into their HLAs. Rather than being dumped on with a few of the lesser HLAs of their classes, why not create more unique abilities for them.
A passive allowing armour to be worn without stopping spell casting for a F/M seems fitting. Perhaps a few self-buffs (which is what F/M's use their magic side for). If Dual/Multi-classes has their own pools there would be no need to "nerf" them for having the best of both worlds, since they'd now have their own.
Random Ideas:
F/M - Weapon enchantments, imbue their attacks with elements the same way Assassins can imbue their weapons with poison.
Lose WW, that's for mindless savages, not sophisticated F/M's. Using their magicks to grant them perm/temp immunity to effects like time-stop, slow, blind, level drain seems to fit the character of the class. - IMO I think it's best to think of a F/M as a single class, not two.
T/M - My personal favourite. I like to think of this class as a mage-slayer. All thief at heart, but utilising magic to aid his thief abilities. Perhaps lose Assassinate and replace with status inflicting abilities. All the thinks a F/M would use his magicks to protect himself against, the T/M would want to use it's magicks to inflict. Also if you were going to accommodate Kit'd Multi/Dual-Classes then a Bounty-Hunter would utilise his magicks in his traps, an Assassin would use magic to boost his poisons, a swashbuckler would prolly follow the F/M's line of thought.
F/T - Dirty tricks... sorry, not played these enough. But I suppose verious <Location> Strike skills, Innate weapon speed increase... Seems mean but don't let them have Assassinate, they're far too strong with it.
F/C - This would be more of a holy/unholy warrior. Rather than beating things down with WW it would be more fitting for them to say a (dark)prayer before smiting their enemies. (good)Undead smiting on attacks? (evil)vampyric attacks that drain health?
C/M - sorry, always thought of this as a conflicting class. Just can't visualise how they'd think.
C/T - same as C/M, with the exception of a Cleric of Mask/Thief. HLA's would be mage spells (modified perhaps) of the illusionary class. Creating a shadow warrior, mass invisiblity (cover of darkness). You get the idea.
-Hope that gave some ideas
Oh and... (Off-topic)
Perhaps help make the game more of a challenge by nerfing some of the overpowered items in the game.
Staff of the Magi - Lose the equipped invis, make it X/day casting.
Cloak of Mirroring - X/day spell turning?
Robe of Vecna - This should totally be a cursed item.
Perhaps change the casting speed to a spell like Iren's
Mental agility. As for the curse... spell loss? Every time the
increased spell casting ability is used, there could be a chance
of random spells being lost (not perm, just until rested).
I'm not too sure, but I think that changes like these to the overpowered items in the game would make it alot more fun.
I'm not saying they should be all powerful or anything. I just don't think as much effort's gone into their HLAs. Rather than being dumped on with a few of the lesser HLAs of their classes, why not create more unique abilities for them.
A passive allowing armour to be worn without stopping spell casting for a F/M seems fitting. Perhaps a few self-buffs (which is what F/M's use their magic side for). If Dual/Multi-classes has their own pools there would be no need to "nerf" them for having the best of both worlds, since they'd now have their own.
Random Ideas:
F/M - Weapon enchantments, imbue their attacks with elements the same way Assassins can imbue their weapons with poison.
Lose WW, that's for mindless savages, not sophisticated F/M's. Using their magicks to grant them perm/temp immunity to effects like time-stop, slow, blind, level drain seems to fit the character of the class. - IMO I think it's best to think of a F/M as a single class, not two.
T/M - My personal favourite. I like to think of this class as a mage-slayer. All thief at heart, but utilising magic to aid his thief abilities. Perhaps lose Assassinate and replace with status inflicting abilities. All the thinks a F/M would use his magicks to protect himself against, the T/M would want to use it's magicks to inflict. Also if you were going to accommodate Kit'd Multi/Dual-Classes then a Bounty-Hunter would utilise his magicks in his traps, an Assassin would use magic to boost his poisons, a swashbuckler would prolly follow the F/M's line of thought.
F/T - Dirty tricks... sorry, not played these enough. But I suppose verious <Location> Strike skills, Innate weapon speed increase... Seems mean but don't let them have Assassinate, they're far too strong with it.
F/C - This would be more of a holy/unholy warrior. Rather than beating things down with WW it would be more fitting for them to say a (dark)prayer before smiting their enemies. (good)Undead smiting on attacks? (evil)vampyric attacks that drain health?
C/M - sorry, always thought of this as a conflicting class. Just can't visualise how they'd think.
C/T - same as C/M, with the exception of a Cleric of Mask/Thief. HLA's would be mage spells (modified perhaps) of the illusionary class. Creating a shadow warrior, mass invisiblity (cover of darkness). You get the idea.
-Hope that gave some ideas
Oh and... (Off-topic)
Perhaps help make the game more of a challenge by nerfing some of the overpowered items in the game.
Staff of the Magi - Lose the equipped invis, make it X/day casting.
Cloak of Mirroring - X/day spell turning?
Robe of Vecna - This should totally be a cursed item.
Perhaps change the casting speed to a spell like Iren's
Mental agility. As for the curse... spell loss? Every time the
increased spell casting ability is used, there could be a chance
of random spells being lost (not perm, just until rested).
I'm not too sure, but I think that changes like these to the overpowered items in the game would make it alot more fun.
#91
Littiz
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Posted 14 February 2005 - 05:27 AM
We're already adding specific abilities for multiclasses (one each).
It's been a controversial matter, anyway we've been convinced.
BUT, they'll gain just a new ability each, as I said, since after all a multi *is* a "lesser version" of a couple of other classes, and the traditional (and obvious) flaw for them is lack of specialization.
So I think the current impostation is basically correct, we'll add something to make things more interesting.
Consider also that fighters get two new abilities in Version 2 (Improved Critical and Toughness), so each multiclass combo with a fighter part will get one of them as well.
Thx for your suggestions, even though we miss only the ability for Cleric/Mages, at this point
It's been a controversial matter, anyway we've been convinced.
BUT, they'll gain just a new ability each, as I said, since after all a multi *is* a "lesser version" of a couple of other classes, and the traditional (and obvious) flaw for them is lack of specialization.
So I think the current impostation is basically correct, we'll add something to make things more interesting.
Consider also that fighters get two new abilities in Version 2 (Improved Critical and Toughness), so each multiclass combo with a fighter part will get one of them as well.
Thx for your suggestions, even though we miss only the ability for Cleric/Mages, at this point
Edited by Littiz, 14 February 2005 - 05:39 AM.
Ever forward, my darling wind...
