149 replies to this topic

[Caedwyr]

So I've picked up several of the new HLAs. One of these is Precision, the new Archer HLA. The ability is nice, but I am finding that it's duration is far too short to be of much good. I'd say a better duration would be 3 rounds rather than two rounds.

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes, 3 rounds would be adequate, but the best solution would be to turn this ability into something like Merciful Fighting - an ability that can be activated/deactivated at will.

[Caedwyr]

Hmm, with all the drawbacks that would be an option. Lets hear what the other playtesters/fans/critics have to say before making a final decision though.

The Archer ability in question is as follows:

Precision
With proper concentration a skilled archer can render his attacks more deadly and precise. By activating this ability the archer gains +6 to his THAC0 with missile weapons, +10 bonus to damage for 2 rounds and a 20% chance/hit to strike a lethal hit (the target creature is allowed a save vs death to avoid instant death); the target must also make a save vs. breathat -2 to avoid being knocked back.

Precision has some drawbacks: it requires intense concentration, making defense almost impossible, and leaves time for just half of the normally available attacks. The archer's movement rate will be decreased by 50% and AC will suffer a 5 point penalty until the ability expires.

[Littiz]

Sorry, Merciful Fighting's technology is copyrighted and locked

Seriously, it's not the same thing, one cannot stay concentrated forever.
I say 3 rounds should be fine.

[T.G.Maestro]

Hmm, some typos are indeed present in this description...

save vs. breathat -2

Caedwyr, could you add this to the proofreading report? Send it to Littiz once you've got enough.

[T.G.Maestro]

Another HLA that might need a bit of balancing:
Malavon's Fury for Invokers could be boosted a bit. It should inflict 1D8 acid damage every round for 5 rounds after the impact, not only 3.

[Harbinger]

I would go with 3 rounds as well, only because the archer gets half his attacks with this HLA.

[Harbinger]

Or maybe be diplomatic and make it two.

[T.G.Maestro]

Precision was changed, so now it lasts 3 rounds instead of 2.

[Caedwyr]

I've already proofread this and all the other documents from the first beta release. Littiz has the proofread versions, but I just copied and pasted from the original readme.

[Caedwyr]

Several more balancing issues:

1. Arcane Knowledge is not selectable multiple times. I can't see how it would hurt to allow this ability to be chosen at least 2 or 3 times. Most people wouldn't want to, but there is always someone who likes to crank up their stats. I wouldn't let the ability be chosen too many times, since you would have problems with the character maxing out at 25 and all the associated RP problems that come with that. 3 times would allow for a max int of 22, for elves and gnomes (before the machine of lum the mad)

2. Death Field. This ability is decent at lower levels, but it seriously needs its range increased. I'd say increase the range by a half again at least. Maybe even double it.


3. The default vanilla ranger HLA setting strongly favours a dual wielding ranger. This kinda forces the player to use a certain style of character, when there are many valid weapon choices available to a ranger. Personally, I like to have Minsc wield spears, Halbreds and Quarterstaffs. The amidexterity HLA isn't of any use for him. I'd say keep the HLA, but add another HLA which can be chosen instead (one or the other)

[T.G.Maestro]

Arcane Knowledge is not selectable multiple times. I can't see how it would hurt to allow this ability to be chosen at least 2 or 3 times. Most people wouldn't want to, but there is always someone who likes to crank up their stats.

Sorry, but I don't agree with this. I can hardly accept that one can boost up his/her INT score above 20 without any arcane/divine assistance - not simply by learning, that is. And Arcane Knowledge should represent the wizards natural great intelligence, and that they can increase it to even greater hights by constant learning and adventuring. But NOT above 20. That shouldn't be achieved by simply facing mystical and dangerous opponents and travelling through Faerun.
Again, this ability is different than Monk Regeneration and Spellcasting Speed Increase (sorcerers) for example. Those two increase special attributes, but not ability scores. Remember, sorcerers have Inner Focus, which behaves the same way - and can be chosen only once (though it will be upgraded during the beta, since it doesn't work as intended). These type of passives work as a "basis" for greater abilities, thus they are (and should be) considerably weak compared to the True Dweomers for example.

Death Field. This ability is decent at lower levels, but it seriously needs its range increased. I'd say increase the range by a half again at least.

Yes, this is a good idea, I think it is a must.

The default vanilla ranger HLA setting strongly favours a dual wielding ranger. This kinda forces the player to use a certain style of character, when there are many valid weapon choices available to a ranger.

Now-now, wait a minute. Rangers are well known for their great ambidextrous abilities, and NOT for their special skills with Great Swords or Crossbows! While they can be very skilled and proficient with these weapons, they will never be as skilled with them than they are with two weapons. Simply read the class description. Improved Ambidexterity aims to point this out, and I don't think it would be fitting to boost them with other kinds of melee/ranged HLA. Well, to be more precise, there are Archers for that, they don't get IA at all.

Personally, I like to have Minsc wield spears, Halbreds and Quarterstaffs. The amidexterity HLA isn't of any use for him

And that is fine with me. You choose a character that has its advantages/disadvantages. A ranger can reach a great level with two weapons, while an archer can be deadly with a long bow. Still, you can always give that archer a halberd, if you like. I hope you know what I mean with all this .

[Littiz]

Death Field. This ability is decent at lower levels, but it seriously needs its range increased. I'd say increase the range by a half again at least.

Argh.
Had to apply 3 projectiles assigments via tp2
Sigh, done.

What do you say about its visuals? I couldn't test the last version I did.
Do summons behave properly? Any other comments?

[T.G.Maestro]

It works as it should Littiz . Everything seems to be in place.

Edit: well, maybe the "scythe" visuals' duration on killed creatures should be reduced by one, it starts to repeat itself for a moment.

[Littiz]

Changed VVC's sequencing value. It *seems* to work now.

Do summons get ONLY the flash animation (as intended)?
It's been a tricky point.

[T.G.Maestro]

Do summons get ONLY the flash animation (as intended)?

I *think* yes. In the last round the spell banished 2 skeletons with the flash animation only.

[Caedwyr]

The default vanilla ranger HLA setting strongly favours a dual wielding ranger. This kinda forces the player to use a certain style of character, when there are many valid weapon choices available to a ranger.

Now-now, wait a minute. Rangers are well known for their great ambidextrous abilities, and NOT for their special skills with Great Swords or Crossbows! While they can be very skilled and proficient with these weapons, they will never be as skilled with them than they are with two weapons. Simply read the class description. Improved Ambidexterity aims to point this out, and I don't think it would be fitting to boost them with other kinds of melee/ranged HLA. Well, to be more precise, there are Archers for that, they don't get IA at all.

Personally, I like to have Minsc wield spears, Halbreds and Quarterstaffs. The amidexterity HLA isn't of any use for him

And that is fine with me. You choose a character that has its advantages/disadvantages. A ranger can reach a great level with two weapons, while an archer can be deadly with a long bow. Still, you can always give that archer a halberd, if you like. I hope you know what I mean with all this .

The default ranger is able to dual wield as well as a default fighter. This doesn't preclude them from using or specializing in other weapon styles. They can use Single Weapon, Two-Handed weapons, Sword and Shield style just as well as a default fighter, but they do not get any bonuses in support of these styles. What I am worried about, is rangers who do not choose to dual wield are automatically put at a disadvantage when it comes to choosing their HLAs. They no longer have some of their previous warrior HLAs that they could choose as an alternative that would enhance their chosen weapon style.

One idea, would be to have an ability that would allow up to three stars in one weapon type (ability can only be chosen once). This would allow for a favoured weapon type, and would offer something for rangers who choose not to dual wield. This ability could be made either exclusive of the ambidexterity ability, or complementary.

For the second part. I have no complaints about how the ranger kits work, just the main ranger class. If I am playing an archer, I wouldn't expect the archer to not be using a bow of some sort.



I'd have to say a large part of the rangers renown with dual wielding comes from a certain drow elf, who actually started out as a fighter (where he learned his dual wielding skills actually).

[T.G.Maestro]

One idea, would be to have an ability that would allow up to three stars in one weapon type (ability can only be chosen once). This would allow for a favoured weapon type, and would offer something for rangers who choose not to dual wield.

An acceptable idea, though some would argue with the reasons (Littiz for example). While IA is absolutely fitting for the class, an ability that would increase simple weapon proficiencies isn't. IA is there for a good reason, but the only reason for this other ability is to "have a valid counterpart of AI for rangers who choose different weapon styles". According to this logic we could easily boost paladins, swashbucklers or barbarians with a similar HLA, don't you think?
Yet I like the idea somewhat, I think it would really fit the barbarian class though.

What I am worried about, is rangers who do not choose to dual wield are automatically put at a disadvantage when it comes to choosing their HLAs. They no longer have some of their previous warrior HLAs that they could choose as an alternative that would enhance their chosen weapon style.

The only noteable offensive HLA they lose is G.Whirlwind - Whirlwind, Power Attack, Critical Strike and Smite are still available to them.

[Caedwyr]

According to this logic we could easily boost paladins, swashbucklers or barbarians with a similar HLA, don't you think?

Yep, and it would make sense to a degree. A possible limitation would be to allow a maximum of 1 star in any other weapon proficiency (not weapon style though)

[T.G.Maestro]

Yep, and it would make sense to a degree. A possible limitation would be to allow a maximum of 1 star in any other weapon proficiency (not weapon style though)

The problem is that this is not so easy. First off, I cannot make a HLA that increases proficiency points by an exact number (one point for example), we can only SET them to a specified value. This is a game engine limitation. This would bring up many problems. Since this ability would set a weapons proficiency score to Mastery level (3 stars), it could easily be used to get mastery in a weapon class in which the character had no stars at all before the modification.
Another problem would be that we would have to add another HLA for Archers, since they lose IA already, and after we'd add this new HLA, they would have 1 less.
Still, you can talk me into forging such a common HLA for Rangers/Paladins/Barbarians. The only problem is that Littiz has severe time problems, so there is very little chance that he will code it up via WeiDU for v1.