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Sorcerous wild magic?


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#1 Sovran

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 01:19 PM

Suppose someone (that would be me) combined the sorcerer's intuitive spellcasting and the random effects of wild magic. Do you think it could work? Do you think it would be worthwile?

Yes, I know that neither the sorcerer nor the wild mage takes kindly to kitting, and a major drawback is that this new kit/class almost certainly replaces the original sorcerer. The unmodded game doesn't include one single sorcerer, so this wouldn't be a huge problem. Sorcerer NPC mods would probably be incompatible, however.

If you can live with that, or just give me the benefit of the doubt... The working title for the class is "spellweaver". Probably used a dozen times already in different parts of the D&D universe, but the all too obvious "wild sorcerer" sounds too much like Cespenar. :P

Here's a draft for the description:

SPELLWEAVER: Like the sorcerer, the spellweaver has an innate talent for the arcane.  Should a talent like this emerge or be coaxed forth, however, plenty of study and practice are usually required as well, if the one so talented wishes to survive their own abilities for long.  This is especially true for spellweavers, for they draw their strength from the erratic ebb and flow of wild magic, a new, unpredictable type of magic generally considered to be an unfortunate by-product of the Time of Troubles.  Needless to say, disciplined mages who have little stomach for intuitive sorcerers frown even more deeply on spellweavers, harbingers of all manner of magical mayhem.

It is thought that the blood of some powerful creature flows through the veins of sorcerers and spellweavers; perhaps they are the spawn of the gods themselves, or even dragons walking in humanoid form.  Spellweavers access new spell levels more slowly than mages, learn spells even more slowly than sorcerers, and gain high level abilities a bit later, but they can cast spells more often and have no need to select and prepare spells ahead of time.  They have access to spells to protect themselves from wild magic, since every time a spellweaver casts a spell, there's a chance of a random wild magic effect happening. Wild magic is extremely unpredictable and should be used with caution.

The combination of sorcery and wild magic takes its toll on a spellweaver's mental and physical balance.  A spellweaver's prime requisite is intelligence, but containing and commanding such unpredictable power also requires above average fortitude in both body and mind.  A spellweaver suffers a -3 penalty to constitution, and saves against breath weapons and polymorph at -2. [Heavier penalties needed?]

Finally, spellweavers may even be overcome by their own magic.  Every time a spellweaver casts a spell, there is a chance of a wild magic backlash: the spell is cast as normal, but the caster either falls unconscious for one round, is wounded by magic energy, or is affected by wild magic for five rounds.  The 7th level spell Improved Chaos Shield protects the spellweaver from this effect.


To me, it even makes twisted kind of sense. After all, the PC is a spawn of a god, and often considered an unfortunate byproduct of the time of troubles, as well. :/ Also this could add more sense of danger to (arcane) magic, which, IMO, feels a bit too mundane as it is. Nothing mystic about it anymore, no feeling that you're toying with forces to be reckoned with. (Whine whine, maybe it's just a result of - what? six years?! - of BG games, plus PS:T.) It's pretty much "point and watch the pretty sparkles". Or, by ToB, "point and laugh as they DIE!"

What I've done so far:

- The spellweaver uses a modified version of the sorcerer spellbook, and automatically gains Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, Chaos Shield and Improved Chaos Shield. Essentially, the spellweaver gains new spells more slowly than the sorcerer, but ends up with more spells to cast.

- a chance of a wild surge and/or a wild magic backlash with every spell cast. Unlike the wild mage's set 5% chance, the spellweaver's chance of a wild surge, as well as the chance of a wild magic backlash, is equivalent to the level of the caster, capped at level 25. So, when a spellweaver of level 12 casts a spell, it's 76% likely that the spell is cast as normal, 12% likely that the spell wild surges, and 12% likely that the wild magic lashes back. On level 25 or higher, the spell is cast normally only in half the cases.

- HLAs: All the usual 10th level mage spells. No additional spells to cast for levels 6-8; instead, the spellweaver may *attempt* to learn new known spells. A certain HLA also reduces the chance of a wild surge or a wild magic backlash somewhat, and raises wild surge rolls permanently.

Eventually, the spellweaver may gain a special ability called "Tangle", which affects one target with wild magic for five rounds, no save. (Note: this still needs playtesting. Could be overpowered.) I have ideas for a few more special abilities, but this is what I have so far.

- the rest of the disadvantages as per the description above. 11 required in INT and WIS, 9 in CON (this is a bit lame, but I didn't want to make those stat rolls too easy.)

What I haven't been able to do:
- create a proper kit, as described above, only a class replacement.
- imitate the random casting level effect that wild mages have. Part of the reason why I raised the chance of a wild surge.

This started out as something I did just to amuse myself and to learn my way around NI and WeiDU, but developed into what might, one day, become a mod. Opinions? Comments? Ideas? *gets ready to duck and cover*

#2 -Ashara-

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Posted 06 April 2004 - 02:36 PM

the spellweaver's chance of a wild surge, as well as the chance of a wild magic backlash, is equivalent to the level of the caster, capped at level 25.

I like the gradual chance of wild surge, though I got into a debate with myself regarding if it should be greater at lower levels and get reduced as the character grows in levels or vice versa. On one hand it is sort of intutive, that the more powerful the wizard is, the more wild energy he uses, on another - the point of progressing is becoming better in what one does and therefore the control of wild magic should improve.

Unfortunately I cannot come up with any decent comments on the mechanics of the kit implementation (never had looked into it), appart from a silly question of "can it be added as a wizard kit"?

#3 Sovran

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 07:54 AM

True, you can reasonably argue for either increasing or lowering the chance. I decided to go for the increase simply to balance things out -- high level wizards need to be taken down a peg. :) Besides, if I gradually lowered the probability, I would gradually make the spellweaver more like the regular sorcerer, thus undermining the whole point of coding this mini-mod in the first place, wouldn't I?

Another option - and this might be the best option, if only it worked - would be to make the chance equivalent to the level of the spell cast. However, AFAIK, I can't affect the wild surge chance of the high-level spell itself, only the *next* spell cast. So your Magic Missile would have a high chance of a wild surge because of the Horrid Wilting you ended the last battle with, two hours ago. So maybe it would be some kind of leftover "wild magic residue". Maybe not.

If I were to add it as a wizard kit, I'd still have to replace one of the specialist wizards, I think, and couldn't do all that I'd like to (such as allow fewer known spells in some cases.)

#4 BobTokyo

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:36 AM

I'm still not clear on what benefits the Spellweaver gets out of this, other than being able to potentially cast high level spells with Reckless Dwemer. The Wild Mage has him beat on range of spells (a Wild Mage can learn every Wizard spell in the game) and from your description the Spellweaver seems to learn even fewer spells than the Sorcerer, with a near certainty of screwing them up when he casts multiple spells in a high level battle (a problem the WM avoids). If you're trying to keep the kit ballanced with standard Sorcs and WMs, you might want to give him more known spells than a Sorcerer rather than fewer.

If you're going for pure comic relief, then please disegard the above. ;)

#5 -Ashara-

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 09:58 AM

Good point.

Kill me dead for worst suggestion ever (it think it is a weird idea) but how about making it a bardic kit with bard's level progression minus thieving abilities, with the spells per level as suggested initially? :unsure:

#6 Sovran

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 12:04 PM

from your description the Spellweaver seems to learn even fewer spells than the Sorcerer, with a near certainty of screwing them up when he casts multiple spells in a high level battle


Oh... sorry for not clearing that up. The spellweaver would end up with +1 spell to *cast* per level (like a "specialist sorcerer", if you will.) They would only attain these spells a bit slower than the sorcerer. BTW, take into account that some of the wild surges close to the end of the list are wildly beneficial as well.

Still, I probably should also include a new spell to up the chances of a favourable wild surge, some sort of Improved Chaos Shield of Doom +6 (or whatever.) And maybe give the spellweaver some special abilities (e.g. Tangle, or a watered-down version of it) earlier than with the HLAs.

@domi: a bard kit might be an idea... beware the wild magic jester. :) However, this particular class actually started out as an innocent "it probably wouldn't be too hard to combine sorcerer and wild mage, now would it?"

Hopefully, playtesting will prove what's balanced and what's not... once I get there.

#7 Immortality

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 01:02 PM

I personally like the idea very much! :) I always wondered why sorcerers cast the same spells mages learn... i mean... If you are a sorcerer wouldnt it be logic to do things with magic that are natural to you, and that are not proper mage spells?

So... yes... it'd be nice to have a wild sorcerer! :)
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#8 -Wolfie-

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 04:00 PM

Since I only play sorcerers I love this idea ;)

#9 jester

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 04:10 PM

.. beware the wild magic jester.

Golden words, Souvran. :)
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#10 Rastor

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 04:39 PM

It might be easier to make this as a wizard kit.
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#11 Sovran

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 05:53 PM

@jester: don't think for a moment that it was unintentional. :)

@rastor: maybe true, but one of the specialist wizards would still have to go. (This is where I'd say, "But who plays, say, Abjurers anyway?" if all the closet Abjurers out there didn't lynch me on the spot. So I don't.) Unless I modified the wild mage... and still, no sorcerer spellcasting.

*bows, curtseys, and makes a little happy dance because there's interest*

#12 Rastor

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Posted 07 April 2004 - 06:18 PM

You could make it a fighter kit then, lol.
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#13 Andyr

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 09:18 AM

You can make it as a mage kit, and have it assigned to the player by script/dialogue ingame.
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#14 Rastor

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 10:12 AM

True. That would deal with some out of game material since we'd have to spawn a "Narrator" NPC who then asks, "Are you a Wild Sorcerer or not?", to which the PC can give all sorts of snappy replies.
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#15 -Guest-

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 10:54 AM

Remember that you can still make a brand new area to modify the GUI, but with locked scrolling and interface hidden.

Though, I admit that making this thru dialogue can be MUCH easier. ;)

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#16 Sovran

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:36 PM

The thing is, if I'm to limit the number of known spells in some instances (which I, kind of, want to do), then I'll have to tamper with SPLSRCKN.2da. The alternative would be to order people to learn so-and-so spell, then remove it via a script, which would be way too much of an in-game hassle.

Maybe I should just put things into perspective and give up on the limitation. :(

I'm not quite sure if the HLA progression could be modified, either. Despite what Luabbr.2da says, sorcerer seems to be hard-coded to use LuSo0.2da - I don't know if the kit Luxxx.2da would override this.

#17 -Ashara-

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:02 PM

I like roleplaying idea for the kit a lot, so whatever works for gaming mechanics. I had a character, Leonora DeVallenzzi, whose background is just asking for this kit :lol:

#18 Sovran

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:12 PM

Maybe I should make two versions, one for angsty warlocks battling the ungovernable forces searing through them, and one where I'd pour all the comic relief with which the concept quite inevitably floods my brain... :P

(edit: And that's the kind of sentence that captures the very essence of small, undercaffeinated hours.)

#19 -Ashara-

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 07:27 PM

And, if you have time a charming bard for jester and me...you know, a rogue with an rueful grin, to whom all talents come easy...but with a mischief :lol:

#20 khay

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Posted 09 April 2004 - 02:02 AM

This is where I'd say, "But who plays, say, Abjurers anyway?"

I do. :D

I think Enchanter is the worst choice, if you ask me. The need for a high Charisma (16 I think) really reduces points to spend in other much more useful areas. Diviners aren`t that bright either.

On the other hand the idea is great!