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Any theories on who TNO was?


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#81 -Quiet Lurker-

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 07:18 PM

Interesting points about the TTO - I wonder why you can't become a cleric in game tho?

Something to do with the story? Or (more likely) a practical reason when the game was being developed?

Well, technically the Nameless One CAN worship a deity. *cough*Lady of Pain,*cough* though he doesn't exactly get clerical powers from it. :lol:

Why can't the Nameless One be a cleric? From a roleplaying perspective, the Nameless One has a variable alignment and can span all nine alignments (one of the strong points of Torment, in my opinion) which makes worshipping specific deities difficult. For example, if the Nameless One worshipped a good god, but turned evil after doing the Grimore of Pestilential Thought Quests, then he can't really be a cleric anymore.
The Nameless One also has a variable belief, since he can join different factions (another strong point of Torment), he can't exactly devote himself to one belief (like Fall-from-Grace). The whole theme of Torment is that belief can change the nature of a man, to devote himself to one faith as a cleric would defeat that purpose.

Furthermore, the fact that the Nameless One switches between classes by talking and training with NPCs and PCs of that class makes the cleric class very difficult to implement in the game.
For example, Lady Thorncombe can teach you how to cast spells like Mebbeth (if you got initial mage training with her) and Lenny can teach to how to use thieving skills like Annah (if you got initial thief training with her), since spell casting, fighting and thieving skills are pretty similiar among the classes. However, a priest of another faith cannot teach you how to believe in the god of your original cleric training.

Scenario into practice:
The Nameless One gets cleric training by becoming a priest of Aoskar (God of Portals) and later switches to the mage class, it makes no roleplaying sense for him go up to Keldor (Godsman Priest) or any other non-Aoskar priest and say:
"I wish to take up clerical studies again, would you pray to Aoskar with me?" :rolleyes:

Besides the deep dark voice, I find no similarities between Darth Vader and the Nameless One. No comment on Terry Wogan. ;)

#82 Platter

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 08:46 PM

Isn't it more suspicious that the Practical Incarnation would make up the Seventh and Eighth Circles without interpreting them to Dak'kon before they journey to the Fortress of Regrets?

Well, when the PI gave Dak'kon the Circle what seemed to allow him to have enough faith in it to bring him from the brink of death was the fact that it was "carved not in chaos, but in stone". Then Dak'kon gives the PI the promise he was looking for, so there would have been no need to reveal the Seventh and Eighth Circles anymore. But he couldn't have known that beforehand.

Or maybe (somewhat stretching it) he planned to reveal them later for some reason. It's not as though he knew he was going to die when he went to the Fortress; it's not out of the question for him to have had some plans that go beyond that timeframe.

Plus the Practical Incarnation's comment: "Perhaps they carry some truth - I know not. I know that they were tedious writings, but the words were enough to give him faith." implies that the Practical Incarnation didn't really understand the writings himself.

You're going to have to explain how him not believing the words and not caring if they were true implies he didn't understand them.

The comment "Perhaps they carry some truth - I know not." would mean that maybe the stuff he wrote just happened to stumble upon some of the truth in some bits, and maybe some parts of the first six circles are partially historically accurate - he doesn't know and it doesn't matter, he just wants Dak'kon to believe it's true.

(Why would he put in the Seventh and Eighth Circles when he himself don't know whether the first Six circles hold truth?)

I don't follow you. The point is what Dak'kon believes, not the PI. The PI doesn't care one way or the other whether or not they are true.

It also implies that the Practical Incarnation believed that the words on the Circle themselves are enough to give Dak'kon faith (thus making up the Seventh and Eighth Circles would be pointless).


He certainly knows after the fact that they weren't absolutely necessary just to get Dak'kon from the brink of death and to make his promise, but it doesn't show that he would know that while he was making it.

Furthermore, it is highly possible for hidden meanings to be within the circle, recall the description:

Yes, but the Circle Dak'kon has is not a normal Circle of Zerthimon. It was made by the PI with at least one intentional change designed to appeal to Dak'kon (I interpret the "carved not in chaos, but in stone" comment to mean that most are not made of stone; if they were then how could this one have saved his life before he even read it and why would the PI even mention it in the first place?). New meanings can come from the Circles, but I say the Seventh and Eighth Circles you discover in the game were planted.

Isn't it odd that these two circles are discovered by someone who isn't even a Zerth? I'm sure some Zerths are as smart as TNO needs to be when he finds them, but according to Dak'kon the People only know up to the Sixth. It would be less odd if those two didn't actually exist in a normal Circle and if TNO was in fact subconsciously remembering making them when he finds them (as you can do when navigating the traps of the Dodecahedron, which also has an INT check).

If the PI made no actual changes/additions why would he say "I know that they were tedious writings"? I suppose you could argue he was literally referring to the lettering itself and such, but that seems a bit of a stretch to me.

#83 Lestat

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 12:44 AM

You all Are Expanding to Much!!!!!
TNO Bares the Symbol of Torment and In the Greatest end you hear the Good Incarnation Whisper his name TNO acts surprised and say "That was my name all along?!" His Name is Torment thus the Game Name. Ravel Mentions how TNO draws People "TORMENTED" by themselves. The All the Names Of TNO Give by The Pillar of Skulls Have to do with a Torment with the Exception of Yemeth. Which is the only other alternitive.


"What Can Change the Nature of a Man?"
"Belief as it Made the Planes"

:::Discussions Of Lestat and Ravel:::
Digital Blasphemy

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#84 Nithalor

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 01:53 PM

There's one thing I don't understand: Some of you say that TTO learned things from TNO:s incarnations. Didn't they... split in two?

And this is the real reason why Ps:T comes so high up on my Best-Games-Ever list, the empty spaces that you do not know, just have to imagine.

Add-on: And thank all you guys for this topic. Really gave me some enjoyable time. ;)

Edited by Nithalor, 31 October 2004 - 01:54 PM.


#85 Dalis'ilhea

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 02:38 AM

They didn't actually name him because they figured that this would happen, we'd make up our own explanations. The Cheeky, slacking Buggers that they are... I'm impressed :thumb:
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird

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#86 LarryTheArcher

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Posted 13 November 2004 - 08:42 PM

Gith was female. Yemeth was one of the tings TNO was called. Go to www.sorcerers.net, Games, PST, Tips, Tricks and hints. Go to the bottom and get Stories of Torment. Great peice. Has a dialog based PST story, Complete Circle of Zerth, and the same guy's HIstory of the Nameless one. He was not originally a leader. It says a betrayal, a contract. ect. That's in the game. Seems to me he signed off and betrayed something to the Baatezu. Or maybe the theories about the baatezu being just puppets of whatever living beyond the last level, Nessus.

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No, Gith was male, the woman that was the leader of the Githyanki was female...

EDIT: Scratch that...

Edited by LarryTheArcher, 13 November 2004 - 09:18 PM.

Irenicus: Now I have my revenge!

Protagonist: You talk to much...

Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)

#87 discharger12

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 04:19 PM

Gith was female. Yemeth was one of the tings TNO was called. Go to www.sorcerers.net, Games, PST, Tips, Tricks and hints. Go to the bottom and get Stories of Torment. Great peice. Has a dialog based PST story, Complete Circle of Zerth, and the same guy's HIstory of the Nameless one. He was not originally a leader. It says a betrayal, a contract. ect. That's in the game. Seems to me he signed off and betrayed something to the Baatezu. Or maybe the theories about the baatezu being just puppets of whatever living beyond the last level, Nessus.

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No, Gith was male, the woman that was the leader of the Githyanki was female...

EDIT: Scratch that...

View Post


I'm so confused, I thought the leader was male :wacko:
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#88 oralpain

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 05:14 PM

Gith was female (founder of the githyanki). Zerthimon was male (founder of the githzerai).

There ARE two skies.

#89 LarryTheArcher

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Posted 16 November 2004 - 06:02 PM

Gith was female. Yemeth was one of the tings TNO was called. Go to www.sorcerers.net, Games, PST, Tips, Tricks and hints. Go to the bottom and get Stories of Torment. Great peice. Has a dialog based PST story, Complete Circle of Zerth, and the same guy's HIstory of the Nameless one. He was not originally a leader. It says a betrayal, a contract. ect. That's in the game. Seems to me he signed off and betrayed something to the Baatezu. Or maybe the theories about the baatezu being just puppets of whatever living beyond the last level, Nessus.

View Post


No, Gith was male, the woman that was the leader of the Githyanki was female...

EDIT: Scratch that...

View Post


I'm so confused, I thought the leader was male :wacko:

View Post


EDIT meaing i remember Gith was the female and rememberd about Zerthy
Irenicus: Now I have my revenge!

Protagonist: You talk to much...

Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)

#90 discharger12

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Posted 18 November 2004 - 03:22 PM

Gith was female (founder of the githyanki). Zerthimon was male (founder of the githzerai).

There ARE two skies.

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Ooh! I see now :)
Defunct, but r teh rly, lol: Tork NPC, WOWCAAVB?, Barbados NPC, Anti-Ding0 Chinchilla NPC, Attack of the Bears!

No. No, they really are defunct.

#91 LarryTheArcher

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Posted 20 November 2004 - 01:19 PM

Gith was female (founder of the githyanki). Zerthimon was male (founder of the githzerai).

There ARE two skies.

View Post


Ooh! I see now :)

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ok, it was one of my stupid moments...
Irenicus: Now I have my revenge!

Protagonist: You talk to much...

Irenicus: (It came with the soul...)

#92 Reverendratbastard

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 02:24 PM

<ahem> pardon me for interrupting:
i appreciate the notices on the main forum page advising posters to denote the presence of Spoilers. might i humbly request that any one of the heavily taxed moderators [don't mean to be facetious, i was a citadel sysop in a previous decade and can only imagine how much more work it is to manage the posting volume of this system] change this topic's header?

i'm personally glad to infer that the player never discovers tno's 'true identity' (i've actually only been playing pst for a few weeks, unlike bg for which i still have the original 5cd release and which is what got me into this community in the first place, as absurdly late as i may be :rolleyes: ), but i didn't really have to know that just because i was browsing the forum topics, y'know? thanks in advance for your as-of-yet-hypothetical consideration. :thumb:
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#93 Antius

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 04:05 PM

There's one thing I don't understand: Some of you say that TTO learned things from TNO:s incarnations. Didn't they... split in two?

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TTO and TNO got plenty of dialog refering to a *link* between them, which they can use to draw upon each others experiences.

They are one person in two bodies, if one is "unmade" the other one will be as well.