42 replies to this topic

[Deathsangel]

Lord Kain, on Jun 6 2005, 01:16 AM, said:

one thing I'll be happy to see is taking Kido into ToB. Telling him

"Oh no Kido I don't plan to become the next Lord of Murder, Bhaals essence should be destoryed."


Later at the end ToB. The PC becomes the new Lord of Murder and likly laughs in Kido's face.

*Big spoiler*




This can already be done... With the ascension mod installed and then Kido. Trying to convince the PC to not ascend is the whole reason Kido can and also wants to join neo-Bhaal parties

[Kania]

... or I'm stupid, or the link is hiding from me. Where's Kido?

(post moved to correct topic by Deathsangel)

Edited by Deathsangel, 10 December 2005 - 02:44 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Kania, on Dec 9 2005, 11:18 PM, said:

... or I'm stupid, or the link is hiding from me. Where's Kido?

(post moved to correct topic by Deathsangel)

In the pinned topics the 3rd one is called Kido version 3.3 now available!! Hit that and there is the link. You can also find it by just going via my website which stands in my signature

Edited by Deathsangel, 10 December 2005 - 02:45 AM.

[Deathsangel]

As the new read me will not allow you to read with whom Kido works well or not I will put it here as spoiler, as it is a question that some people like to have an answer to.

Kido works well with the following people: Minsc, Nalia (yes he is evil, but he likes nagging these guys without them having problems with it, because they don't understand it quit well (Minsc even loves it))
Kido works reasonable with Imoen, Yoshimo, Viconia, Jan, Haer'Dalis, Cernd, Valygar, Sarevok, Edwin
Kido works bad with Jaheira, Aerie, Korgan, Mazzy, Anomen, Keldorn

(you probably need to select it to read it )

Edited by Deathsangel, 18 February 2006 - 02:15 PM.

[Lemernis]

I would recommend giving Kido a leather armor that does not provide any substantial protection (just to make it fun, maybe give it one magical property?) and which does not disable his mage spells. Just so's he will have a hooded thief's appearance. Kido has a hood in his inventory, and his portrait is hooded, after all.

[Lemernis]

I get the impression that no one is working on this mod anymore. But just in case, I'll make a few observations:

In the encounter where Adelcia and her party come for Kido, the dialogue options could offer a little wider range of responses.

I have a neutral type of PC who has formed a mixed alignment party using the BG2 Tweak Pack 'happy patch'. My PC is not evil. But he will accept evil party members. Provided that they do their job, stay out of trouble, and respect his authority. He doesn't care what their past is. He's only concerned with how they will perform for him in the present. That's the roleplaying perspective for the PC.

So with such a party, the PC may feel compelled to defend Kido until he or she has a little more proof of Adelcia's claims. However there's no opportunity to ask Kido about their claims before the party is forced to fight. And after the fight, there should be an option to interrogate Kido a bit about whether he did the things they claim. Kido could certainly lie about it. In fact that would be perfectly in character for a devotee of Cyric. As it stands, if the PC on the one hand feels it would be premature to hand Kido over to his hunters, yet on the other hand is appalled at what he did, it doesn't sit well that there is no dialogue option but to keep him in the party. I hope that makes sense.

Kido does suggest that their claim is true with a flippant answer (some comment about his 'playthings' typically remaining under his control). But there's no opportunity to kick him out at that point. (I realize you can dismiss him manually via the GUI's Reform Party button--I'm talking about the dialogue, though.) It would be a little stonger if you can at least confront Kido about such ghastly behavior, and tell him that he has to clean up his act if he's going to remain in the party. And again, he could lie (and should) to stay in the party.

Oh, also--there's a mispelling of the word "feign" as "fain."

Edited by Lemernis, 15 April 2009 - 10:36 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Lemernis, on Apr 15 2009, 06:20 PM, said:

I get the impression that no one is working on this mod anymore. But just in case, I'll make a few observations:

In the encounter where Adelcia and her party come for Kido, the dialogue options could offer a little wider range of responses.

I have a neutral type of PC who has formed a mixed alignment party using the BG2 Tweak Pack 'happy patch'. My PC is not evil. But he will accept evil party members. Provided that they do their job, stay out of trouble, and respect his authority. He doesn't care what their past is. He's only concerned with how they will perform for him in the present. That's the roleplaying perspective for the PC.

So with such a party, the PC may feel compelled to defend Kido until he or she has a little more proof of Adelcia's claims. However there's no opportunity to ask Kido about their claims before the party is forced to fight. And after the fight, there should be an option to interrogate Kido a bit about whether he did the things they claim. Kido could certainly lie about it. In fact that would be perfectly in character for a devotee of Cyric. As it stands, if the PC on the one hand feels it would be premature to hand Kido over to his hunters, yet on the other hand is appalled at what he did, it doesn't sit well that there is no dialogue option but to keep him in the party. I hope that makes sense.

Kido does suggest that their claim is true with a flippant answer (some comment about his 'playthings' typically remaining under his control). But there's no opportunity to kick him out at that point. (I realize you can dismiss him manually via the GUI's Reform Party button--I'm talking about the dialogue, though.) It would be a little stonger if you can at least confront Kido about such ghastly behavior, and tell him that he has to clean up his act if he's going to remain in the party. And again, he could lie (and should) to stay in the party.

Oh, also--there's a mispelling of the word "feign" as "fain."

Hello Lemernis,
First of all welcome to the board.
It is true Kido is on the back burn comparison to the other parts of this project.
However, he is still supported. As to answer your questions, you are both right and wrong. It is indeed true, that your descision must be made at that point. However, there are a few more lines you did not persue. It is possible to
A: Tell Kido to handle his own affairs. Which causes a kick out, by saying so, and let him fight the party alone.
B: Kick Kido out and you together with Adelcia attack together
C: Attack Adelcia
Thus there is a neutral, good, and evil way so to speak. For indeed the typical hints Kido gives should be the answer to the PC that indeed Kido is guilty of the claim (and it are of course several women that claim it not just one).
I do agree that I never thought of such a way to defend him and than tell him to clean up his act... perhaps that would have been nice indeed, but I wasn't strong on initiated dialogue than (heck there is minor minor problem with him there)

Thanks for the misspelled word by any means.
I hope that this answers at least shows I did try to take some other approaches into account, though I did (naturally) did not take the Happy Patch into account (seeing I can not take mods into account ), and that for now it satifies.

Edited by Deathsangel, 15 April 2009 - 02:52 PM.

[Lemernis]

Ah, thanks for the reply. I appreciate all the effort you have put into this.

Kido puts me in mind of comedian Tom Green.

Is Kido designed for an all evil party? I.e., is the assumption you were working under when thinking of the dialogue options that the PC/party is evil? Is Kido not intended for a mixed alignment party? Because it's possible to play mixed alignment parties without the happy patch. It's just a bit of a pain to keep rep from going above 18, and listening to evil party members grumble about any increase in rep. The happy patch just makes it a more pleasant experience.

Question: is Kido's bard song worth using?

Oh, also--when Adelcia spawned in (in my game it was at Waukeen's Promenade) she did not initiate dialogue. It was obviously part of a mod, so I spoke to them and got the dialogue going. But I would assume they should speak right upon teleporting in.

[Deathsangel]

Hm, that is the second spawing and initiation of dialogue that goes wrong you report. It has not been yet reported for that particular encounter. Do you by chance have a lot of scripts running - as in do you have a lot of mods installed? Perhaps your computer is having a slight difficulty running all scripts... I am unsure. It is indeed scripted as for her to speak right away.
Another reason might be is that they spawn near your PC and Kido is lacking behind as you have the boots of speed. They need to see (thus also no invisibilty) both to initiate dialogue (same for Ariena).

As for the other question Kido was designed for evil, chaotic or neutral (more mercenary like though) party. He plays the best with other chaotic alignments and even can be friends with a few CG, however it goes heavily wrong with all kinds of Lawfull people, which includes LE. I always scripted several types of routes for a PC to take. Most of the times three, sometimes more, rarely two.

I never had Tom Green in mind when making Kido. To be fairly honest I am not to charmed about this comedian.

[xdeathplanetx]

i just wanted to know if kido will flirt with a female protagonist or not thanks

[Deathsangel]

xdeathplanetx, on Apr 16 2009, 08:56 PM, said:

i just wanted to know if kido will flirt with a female protagonist or not thanks

Nope he will not. His only love is Cyric.. crazy but true
Nice avatar by the way

[xdeathplanetx]

thanks death dorry if i ask there here
but the mod of the wicked how many npc should containe? and what will be the difference between them?

[Lemernis]

Deathsangel, on Apr 16 2009, 07:51 AM, said:

Hm, that is the second spawing and initiation of dialogue that goes wrong you report. It has not been yet reported for that particular encounter. Do you by chance have a lot of scripts running - as in do you have a lot of mods installed? Perhaps your computer is having a slight difficulty running all scripts... I am unsure. It is indeed scripted as for her to speak right away.
Another reason might be is that they spawn near your PC and Kido is lacking behind as you have the boots of speed. They need to see (thus also no invisibilty) both to initiate dialogue (same for Ariena).

As for the other question Kido was designed for evil, chaotic or neutral (more mercenary like though) party. He plays the best with other chaotic alignments and even can be friends with a few CG, however it goes heavily wrong with all kinds of Lawfull people, which includes LE. I always scripted several types of routes for a PC to take. Most of the times three, sometimes more, rarely two.

I never had Tom Green in mind when making Kido. To be fairly honest I am not to charmed about this comedian.

I do have a lot of mods running in a BGT game.* But I'm running the game on a powerful computer with loads of RAM and the other mod dialogues seem to be firing just fine, i.e., without any lag. Delcia et al teleport in immediately upon the party traveling to the new map (north end of Waukeen's Promenade in this case) and Kido is right there with the rest of the party as they enter the area.

Reason I asked about whether Kido is intended for an all evil party is that the dialogue options after Delcia's party has been killed seem to be written for an evil character only. There is no option to interrogate Kido as to whether Adelcia's claims are true, nor to express outrage or disgust at what Kido did. What I'm trying to get across here is that a Good or Neutral type character can legitimately protect Kido, because the PC truly has no idea how valid Adelcia's claims are. (Right? All throughout the game people misrepreent themselves and lie, etc. And they are in Amn, after all, one of the Forgotten Realms' so-called "Lands of Intrigue.") So a Good or Neutral PC can, in good faith, select the option "you have no jurisdiction here" on the premise that Adelcia's claim is not simply to be accepted at face value. If Adelcia then attacks, forcing the PC to fight before he or she can determine the facts, that is fine. But afterward the dialogue options for the PC essentially shrug off Kido's heinous act. Responses are like "well, just keep a lower profile," or "I don't like surprises," which basically signaling to Kido moral indifference to what he did. I'm suggesting that the mod will be better developed if you make an option here for a non-evil PC to express that he or she is appalled at what Kido did to Adelcia's village. And among Kido's responses should be a lie to placate such a PC. Cyric is in fact a god of lies and deception!

It's actually good if you don't like Tom Green because he rubs many people the wrong way yet undeniably has charsima--similar to Kido! Anyway, just a slight association that came to mind, both visually with Kido's portrait and with the voicing.


* BG2 Fixpack
BGT
BG Mini-Quests and Encounters
BG1 Unfinished Business
Dark Side of the Sword Coast
The Grey Clan: In Candlelight
BG2 Unfinished Business
Quest Pack
One Pixel Productions
1PP Flaming Swords
Berserker Minsc
Gavin NPC
Ariena NPC
Kido NPC
Kelsey NPC
Alora NPC
Tiax BG2 NPC
Viconia Friendship
deArnise Romance
BG1 NPC Project
Romantic Encounters
IEP Extended Banters
Banter Pack
Xan's Friendship Path
Coran's Friendship
Ajantis Expansion
PnP Celestials
BG2 Tweak Pack
Sword Coast Stratagems
Sword Coast Stratagems II
BP-BGT Worldmap
Level 1 NPCs

[Deathsangel]

xdeathplanetx, on Apr 16 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

thanks death dorry if i ask there here
but the mod of the wicked how many npc should containe? and what will be the difference between them?

No problem, if I ever ever get finished there should be 5. However, this project has become a 10 year plan There are significant differences between them all. Heck, some don't even like working with one another at all or the same type of NPC's.
For instance Korgan is fine with Kirinhale, friends with Montaron, but hates Kido (in Throne of Bhaal this improves a bit too indifferent)
They all have different classes, different views, and are in different ways evil. There will be ways to combine them, but they are to add to the existing PC's.

Lemernis, on Apr 17 2009, 09:53 AM, said:

I do have a lot of mods running in a BGT game.* But I'm running the game on a powerful computer with loads of RAM and the other mod dialogues seem to be firing just fine, i.e., without any lag. Delcia et al teleport in immediately upon the party traveling to the new map (north end of Waukeen's Promenade in this case) and Kido is right there with the rest of the party as they enter the area.

Reason I asked about whether Kido is intended for an all evil party is that the dialogue options after Delcia's party has been killed seem to be written for an evil character only. There is no option to interrogate Kido as to whether Adelcia's claims are true, nor to express outrage or disgust at what Kido did. What I'm trying to get across here is that a Good or Neutral type character can legitimately protect Kido, because the PC truly has no idea how valid Adelcia's claims are. (Right? All throughout the game people misrepreent themselves and lie, etc. And they are in Amn, after all, one of the Forgotten Realms' so-called "Lands of Intrigue.") So a Good or Neutral PC can, in good faith, select the option "you have no jurisdiction here" on the premise that Adelcia's claim is not simply to be accepted at face value. If Adelcia then attacks, forcing the PC to fight before he or she can determine the facts, that is fine. But afterward the dialogue options for the PC essentially shrug off Kido's heinous act. Responses are like "well, just keep a lower profile," or "I don't like surprises," which basically signaling to Kido moral indifference to what he did. I'm suggesting that the mod will be better developed if you make an option here for a non-evil PC to express that he or she is appalled at what Kido did to Adelcia's village. And among Kido's responses should be a lie to placate such a PC. Cyric is in fact a god of lies and deception!

Well, than it must be either something with my own mod, or some other glitch. As I trust your judgement of your computer.
Kido was never writen for a good party, bear that. After all he is undeniably evil. I doubt that a good PC can legitimately protect Kido. Heck, he picks fights with many good characters, hates good actions (even if stears to a few of them), his quests are undeniably evil. Kido was not written for a lawful or good party. Ariena functions way better in that role, as will Ian, but not Kirinhale or Montaron (again half in response to xdeathplanetx)
It is true Cyric is for one part god of lies and deception, which comes forward in the story of Adelcia, but Kido already tells it is true (in his way of hinting, which is normal to him).
I do like your suggestion "you have no jurisdiction here", which if I will remember will add to the responses. As well as perhaps a more strong dislike suprise. However, if your PC dislikes heinous acts... you will have a bit of problem with other morbid humor he has. If your PC doesn't found his sick morbid humor amusing I doubt it is a good match roleplay wise

Thanks for the suggestions and I will look into it. Hope you still enjoy him though

[Lemernis]

Thanks for the response, and I am enjoying Kido. He's been a useful and very offbeat character. I haven't seen his bard song doing anything by way of Confusing enemies. So I usually have him casting backup spells, supporting my Kensai-Mage and Kelsey. I'm still in Chapter 2, but I have him regularly casting Glitterdust, Spook, Remove Magic, Dire Charm, Greater Malison, Emotion, Slow, and Chaos. And every so often his dagger stuns an enemy. Like a vanilla true class Bard, he's basically a hardier version of a low level mage.

The "you have no jurisdiction here" option already exists btw.

I would suggest giving Kido the opportunity to work with a non-evil party. If you ever want to do that, I would consider modifying that dialogue option we're discussing slightly to add something to the effect that the PC feels unable to hand Kido over to a certain death without proof of their claims. Adelcia then still attacks just as she is written now. But after the fight you might add a dialogue node wherein the PC asks Kido if the accusations Adelcia made are true. Kido will either admit or lie depending on the alignment of the PC.

I peeked at some of the spoliers for Kido, and if he has an agenda to convert the PC to Cyric he should most certainly try to deceive a Good or Neutral PC. I agree that NG or LG PC would likely never tolerate having Kido in the party to begin with. I don't see him in a party comprised entirely of goody-goodies. But a CG, LN, CN, or TN certainly could accept him as long as he performs well. Especially if it's a PC who assembles mixed alignment parties. As with my current PC who is LN and will hire anyone he feels can be counted on in battle.

Just something to think about, as I think it would make the character more multi-dimensional if he can deceive CG, LN, CN, or TN protagonists into beleiving that he is basically benign.

Oh, also--is his bard song worth using, do you think? As I mentioned, as far as I can see it doesn't seem to do anything. I could be wrong about that, though. Until this writing I had forgotten that a Jester's Bard Song confuses enemies rather than buffs the party. So I wasn't looking for enemies to be confused--and meanwhile I often have Kelsey and PC casting Chaos.

And isn't Bard song broken in the vanilla game? (Or is that just in BG1? And BGII fixed it? I can't recall atm.) Anyway, IIRC Song and Silence fixes Bard Song. So is it advisable to install that mod when using Kido?

Edited by Lemernis, 18 April 2009 - 03:18 AM.

[Deathsangel]

LN parties I also highly doubt. Kido is certainly no character to abide by the law. In my eyes, I have given him a way of working with neutral parties, even within this encounter. However, alignments are broad (and always a topic of discussion), but in my eyes a mercernary minded neutral character or a CN can take him along with out the need to modify Kido. CG is already stretching it, if you look at his behaviour with these people (which grew by accident by the way) he always fools them or makes fun of them. If you know the spoiler you know that he will is not in favor of CG characters.

As to your other question. Indeed his bard song confuses enemies, but they get a save. It is just like having chaos at hand always. Song and Silence is okay to install. It is your choice You can find a on the Ironwork forums a nice overview with the NPC's that were made and their relative power etc.

[Lemernis]

Okay, I definitely understand where you're coming from with Kido's CE behavior. What I meant was a LN character could assemble a mixed alignment party, and as long as any party member faithfully follows the PC's orders then the alignment and past of that PC could be fine.

Actually I was thinking more of the 3.5 edition definition of the LN alignment:

Quote

Lawful Neutral, "Judge"

A lawful neutral character acts as law, tradition, or a personal code directs her. Order and organization are paramount to her. She may believe in personal order and live by a code or standard, or she may believe in order for all and favor a strong, organized government... it means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.

wherein character can behave consistently according to a personal, idiosyncratic (and possibly mercenary) code of behavior, as a kind of rugged individualist. Which is rather different from the the BG series definition which comes from 2nd ed. AD&D

Quote

Lawful Neutral

Order and organization are of paramount importance. They believe in a strong, well-ordered government, whether that government is a tyranny or benevolent democracy. The benefits of organization and regimentation outweigh any moral questions raised by their actions. An inquisitor determined to ferret out traitors at any cost or a soldier who never questions his orders are examples of Lawful Neutral behavior.

But there too, there wouldn't necessarily be a moral stance or judgment about Kido's past behavior. A LN character cares about a comrade's reliability and compliance for his own purposes, not whether he is good or evil.

Now whether someone for whom discipline is paramount would accept a person as apparently chaotic as Kido into the party to begin with is questionable. That is true. Just the fact that Kido is a disciple of Cyric should give pause. And as the PC learns more about Kido it's apparent that he's a loose cannon. But so far Kido hasn't done anything to upset the party's performance. And he has certainly been useful to the party.

Edited by Lemernis, 19 April 2009 - 02:21 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Lemernis, on Apr 18 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

But so far Kido hasn't done anything to upset the party's performance. And he has certainly been useful to the party.

You may be lucky in your group composition, and may have already performed some quests in which he makes sure of certain turns

[Lemernis]

Oh, right there was the first quest. I didn't have Kido complete it. There is no way the PC would have stood for that. My PC was so revolted by the quest that he killed the questgiver, lol.

I can't quite remember now how I worked that out... IIRC I had Kido enter the temple alone and take the quest, and then the PC (I presumed Kido would share what the questgiver had ordered) went in solo and chunked the questgiver. I figured if Kido were to leave because of that then so be it, but he did remain in the party.

It will be interesting to see what else may come up regarding Kido. I'll definitely have to cut him loose from the party if he does things the PC can't approve of.

From an RP vantage I'll see how long I can manage to keep him. But so far it has been fun to use him tactically. I enjoy having three arcane spellcasters in the party (Kido being one). Especially since I have SCSII installed, even low-to-mid level spells in the right combinations can make a substantial difference in a many a battle.

Edited by Lemernis, 21 April 2009 - 04:07 AM.

[Lemernis]

Lemernis, on Mar 24 2009, 07:10 AM, said:

I would recommend giving Kido a leather armor that does not provide any substantial protection (just to make it fun, maybe give it one magical property?) and which does not disable his mage spells. Just so's he will have a hooded thief's appearance. Kido has a hood in his inventory, and his portrait is hooded, after all.

Btw, I installed Song and Silence. I just added the 'bardic store and thief items' component, which adds a store that includes 'bardic leathers' with which Kido can spellcast and gives him a hooded avatar.

Edited by Lemernis, 22 April 2009 - 01:14 AM.