78 replies to this topic

[Littiz]

With this mod Imoen is a 10th level Swashbuckler dualed to a first level mage at the start of the game ... and it made perfect sense to me.  She was a happy go lucky thief (or maybe swashbuckler) and then Irenicus corrupted her.

Thx for the comments, it really makes sense, though I have to say I didn't actually think about that when I made that component.
I made her a 10th level Swash (mainly) for two reasons:
-Get rid of that unfitting backstab multiplier
-Improve the continuity from BG1 (in my games, she used to end as a 10th level thief. Next time, with TuTu...).

As for more "general" reasons for the change of career, I feel pretty much in line with Cybersquirt (we all have surprises, now and then )

[kirkjobsluder]

I think that it is ill-advised to take Imoen's tendency to joke around as an inability to take things seriously. My sense of her as a character is that her verbal bantering is sometimes a survival mechanism. Part of it has to do with playing to her intelligence stats.

Of course, a part of this problem comes up with some of the limitations of 2nd edition character concepts where switching is a big deal. I still don't see why the switch is such a big deal. For her to be curious enough to explore magic just seems entirely reasonable to me without a need for her to be corrupted.

Especially when you take into account the fact that rogues are a catch-all character class with extreme flexibility in development.

[Andyr]

Imoen is a mage in SoA because Bioware thought that most of the people who played with her in the party in BGI dualed her to a mage ... never mind that folks did that for powergaming reasons.

I think it's this reason too.

From a RP point of view, though, I assumed it was because of Gorion. Or perhaps her awakening Bhaal - taint made her more aware of magic, giving her a natural aptitude? If such a class were possible in BGII, I'd suggest thief-sorceror is what she should be.

[BobTokyo]

She was educated in Candlekeep, surrounded by mages and priests, even if she didn't originally take that path. She was always interested in magic

What might be worth considering is not why Imoen suddenly changed, but why she never took up magic in the past. Stories about magic and wizards would spark something, maybe, but is it possible that all she saw of actual practical magic in Candlekeep was dusty tomes and old, stuffy wizards and sages (Gorion, Tethtoril, Obe) and so it never interested her until she saw other wizards at work, in an adventuring context, before her eyes?

Nice take on it. Also, it could have been a case of bright-kid teenage rebellion. Maybe she felt pressured to become a Mage os Sage, and rebelled by refusing to study magic seriously. Later, in the real world, she might have finally taken up those studies.

[Quitch]

I think that it is ill-advised to take Imoen's tendency to joke around as an inability to take things seriously.

I've already said this myself in other threads on the board, but then I never said otherwise in this one. I stated what she was doing not why, and I think that holds true when you look at the Bioware dialogue. Outside of one unsettling moment with Sarevok, her only dark talks are with the PC, when Aerie raises the issues she brushes it off jokingly.

[JPS]

She was educated in Candlekeep, surrounded by mages and priests, even if she didn't originally take that path. She was always interested in magic

What might be worth considering is not why Imoen suddenly changed, but why she never took up magic in the past. Stories about magic and wizards would spark something, maybe, but is it possible that all she saw of actual practical magic in Candlekeep was dusty tomes and old, stuffy wizards and sages (Gorion, Tethtoril, Obe) and so it never interested her until she saw other wizards at work, in an adventuring context, before her eyes?

Well, I always saw her as quite young at the beginning of BG1, 15 or 16 or so, so she wouldn't necessarily have chosen a career, and she probably wouldn't have had time to become a proper mage even if she had started working on it. Then she's thrown out into real life by accident, and has to do something that's useful then and there and not after a couple of years or at least months when she's had time to finish her studies. But I see I'm just repeating my old post here...

And yes, the official information about her age makes her a bit older, but the "thief by accident" approach still works, I think.

[Jinnai]

Actually i think it was just because she had gotten bored of ordinary theievery. Been there, done that kinda deal. Magic seemed much more exciting and entertaining to her curious mind.

But Quitch, I know there have been some attempts to make a BGTutu -> BG2 transiaiton mod as well as BGT and since you can dual imoen yourself to a non-mage class will you do anything about that? I mean it wouldn't be right for her to be talking about how she liked dabbling in magic when she's dualed as a fighter.

[Quitch]

@Jinnai

I'll try and remember and include a class check on any dialogue of that nature.

@Cybersquirt

Well, I think you know from RtW that my Imoen writing isn't quite as light as this forum would suggest. However, I can't possibly agree that BG2 really makes her a less ligh-hearted person. Maybe deep down, but not in how she presents herself. Find me the dark banters, the moments when she's shuddering in front of an NPC. You won't find them, they almost all happen with the PC, or at scripted moments in SoA.

It is Irenicus she fears and possibly loathes. In SoA there is nothing to show her change, rather she is responding to a change in her enviroment, one that Irenicus has become a part of. It's arguable that she has changed, but SoA doesn't prove this, and her banters in ToB certainly wouldn't fit with that theory.

The only time Imoen becomes mournful is when there is an immediate threat, or one overshadowing the party. There is nothing to show she herself has changed, only that this is how she responds to circumstance. Her epilogue itself tells us she obviously wasn't too deeply broken up about it all.

[Briannandoah]

About Imoen's age: I've always thought in BGI that she was almost of similar age as the pc. And in BGII in a banter with Jaheira she says something like "I am not that younger than <charname>" (when the party finds Khalid). I don't know about the official age though, but this was my impression.

I never changed Imoen as a mage in BGI. This is mostly due to the fact, that a character I played the most was a thief/mage elf. And that with other characters I always had either Dynaheir or Xan with me. And because I really didn't like the other thieves in the game that much, they lacked the qualities I needed for a thief. (Well I had Coran with one party for a while and Safana with other).

So I really didn't like the fact that they had made her a mage in the first place, but I had to use my imagination to fix the holes in the plot, when I imported my thief/mage elf to BGII. So I though my character might have taught her a few things on the road, as they were very close and enjoyed doing similar things.

So I imagined Imoen learned magic only for fun and because it interested her.

And yes, in BGI it was obvious that Winthrop was more close to Imoen than Gorion. In fact there was never any hint in BGI that Imoen could be a Bhaalspawn. At least I didn't find it, and I thought that it was propably never in the plans when they made BGI. So to me it is kind of strange in BGII that Imoen talks about Gorion as if he would have been that important person in her life. Because in BGI I didn't see it. She wasn't heart broken when Gorion died, more sad for the pc's loss than anything else.

But I've better stop now, or otherwise I am going to write totally off topic soon :turnip2: (got to use that in somewhere ).

EDIT: Got to learn to write...

Edited by Briannandoah, 05 July 2004 - 02:59 AM.

[Spawn Of Shadows]

i believe it was a plot device.....she wld never have been captured by the cowled wizards if she cldnt cast magic missile....

[Jinnai]

About Imoen's age: I've always thought in BGI that she was almost of similar age as the pc. And in BGII in a banter with Jaheira she says something like "I am not that younger than <charname>" (when the party finds Khalid). I don't know about the official age though, but this was my impression.

Well it is mentioned in her BG and in some dialogues that she is younger than the pc, but it doesn't say by how much.

I never changed Imoen as a mage in BGI. This is mostly due to the fact, that a character I played the most was a thief/mage elf. And that with other characters I always had either Dynaheir or Xan with me. And because I really didn't like the other thieves in the game that much, they lacked the qualities I needed for a thief. (Well I had Coran with one party for a while and Safana with other).

So I really didn't like the fact that they had made her a mage in the first place, but I had to use my imagination to fix the holes in the plot, when I imported my thief/mage elf to BGII. So I though my character might have taught her a few things on the road, as they were very close and enjoyed doing similar things.

So I imagined Imoen learned magic only for fun and because it interested her.

And yes, in BGI it was obvious that Winthrop was more close to Imoen than Gorion. In fact there was never any hint in BGI that Imoen could be a Bhaalspawn. At least I didn't find it, and I thought that it was propably never in the plans when they made BGI. So to me it is kind of strange in BGII that Imoen talks about Gorion as if he would have been that important person in her life. Because in BGI I didn't see it. She wasn't heart broken when Gorion died, more sad for the pc's loss than anything else.

I agree. I never dualed her to a mage in BG1.

[Quitch]

The PC, Imoen and Jaheira are all 20. Imoen is younger than the PC, but not in years.

[Shadow Angel]

I always considered Imoen a few months younger, at most six.

As for why Imoen became a mage, I felt that during her youth the monks at Candle keep tryed to teach her the Art but she didn't what to be a stuffy mage. She picked of thieving because she liked sneaking around and getting into stuff. However, after some time on the road, she became disillusioned with being a thief and wanted some thing more positive. And due to her education and innate talent, she picked it up quickly.

[BobTokyo]

The PC, Imoen and Jaheira are all 20. Imoen is younger than the PC, but not in years.

Is there a textual reason that you perceive Jaheira as being only 20?

[Quitch]

Dave Gaider said she was.

[NiGHTMARE]

But did he mean actual 20, or the half-elven equivalent of 20 (around 35 or so)? Given all that's she's gotten up to in the past, and the fact a half-elf of 20 wouldn't even be a teenager in human terms, I'd say the latter is far more likely.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 06 July 2004 - 08:21 AM.