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#1 SConrad

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 03:31 PM

Name:
Khadion Linvail

Race:
Human

Class:
Bravo (was: Swashbuckler)

Alignment:
Chaotic Good

Stats:
Strength: 12 (was: 14)
Dexterity: 18 (was: 20)
Constitution: 13 (was: 12)
Intelligence: 15 (was: 16)
Wisdom: 7 (was: 6)
Charisma 18 (was: 20)
Total stats: 83 (was: 88)

BIO: (New bio is being written, here's the old one)
Khadion is quite uncomfortable when it comes to talking about his past. You can see that mentioning of his past troubles him. He prefers to see that the subject changes. If you persue the matter, however, you'll find out that Khadion's past is a mystery, even for him.

As long as he can remember, he has lived with his stepfather, Aran Linvail, the leader of the Shadow Thiefs of Athkatla. Khadion was trained as a swashbuckler by the best instructors within the Shadow Thiefs and up until now, he has spent most of his time working for them. Although is young age, Khadion is already one of the most influential members of the Guild, where he has managed to climb quite high in the ranks, due to his supreme skills in arms and of course the influence of his stepfather.

But of his origin, he doesn't know anything. He is sure that his stepfather knows where he comes from, but the shadowmaster of Athkatla has never told Khadion, who even is forbidden to try to find out anything of his past by himself.

He is also very popular among the young girls and ladys in Athkatla, due to his great looks and his great charm. He has, despite his young age, managed to become somewhat of a celebrity in Athkatla, which his stepfather highly disapproves of. But the popularity is an advantage Khadion never is late to use. He is often found in company of young girls in different taverns all over Athkatla. He is a known heart-breaker, and doesn't care wheather the girl for the evening already has a boyfriend, something that has lead him into trouble several times. But due to his quickness and agility, he always manage to get away, a fact that increases his personage.

The scimitar he always wears is a gift from his stepfather. Khadion takes great pride in owning a weapon as quick, agile and glorious as himself. The scimitar is feather-light, which suits Khadions fighting-technique perfectly, relying more on speed and quickness than strengh. If it is one thing Khadion adores more than the opposite sex, it's his scimitar.

Edited by SConrad, 05 August 2004 - 03:36 AM.

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#2 Galactygon

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Posted 03 July 2004 - 06:02 PM

*looks at the NPC stats*

*weeps*

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#3 -Ashara-

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 08:33 AM

As long as he can remember, he has lived with his stepfather, Aran Linvail, the leader of the Shadow Thiefs of Athkatla.

You might want consider putting a disclaimer that the mod will be logically incompatible with Tortured Souls, due to Sime Linvail NPC being Aran's daughter.

#4 Jenova

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 08:35 AM

Stats:
Strengh: 14
Dexterity: 20
Constitution: 12
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 6
Charisma 20

:blink:
Wouldnt' it be better if he had 18 dexterity and charisma and (let's say) at least 8 wisdom? I guess children have wisdom something about 4-5...he doesn't have eleven years, does he?

But the rest is just wonderful ^_^ I will wait for him impatiently!

Edited by Jenova, 05 July 2004 - 04:36 AM.

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#5 Andyr

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 08:41 AM

Those stats are a bit high - any reason for the superhuman DEX and CHR? He's faster than the fastest Elf, and more charismatic than a Dryad...
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#6 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 09:14 AM

Further to what's already been said, remember that 10 is the human average for all stats, and that humans cannot have stats above 18 unless magic is involved.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 04 July 2004 - 10:15 AM.


#7 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 09:31 AM

Those stats are a bit high - any reason for the superhuman DEX and CHR? He's faster than the fastest Elf, and more charismatic than a Dryad...

Well, there are reasons... I'd rather decrease strengh and constitution than dexterity in this case. I might be able to drop a point or two of charisma, though.

Wouldnt' it be better if he had 18 dexterity and charisma and (let's say) at least 8 wisdom? I guess children have wisdom something about 4-5...he doesn't have evleven years, does he?

He's about 18 (or so), and extremely (I mean EXTREMELY) erratic, unstable, whatever you want to call it. Brilliant, smart (INT: 16), but highly unreliable.

You might want consider putting a disclaimer that the mod will be logically incompatible with Tortured Souls, due to Sime Linvail NPC being Aran's daughter.

Well, I've thought about that.

*looks at the NPC stats*

*weeps*

-Galactygon

I guess that the weeping isn't positive. I just want to say (in my defense) that Khadion has a total stat of 88, which is the same as Jaheira and Yoshimo, only one attribute higher than Imoen, Nalia and Haer'Dalis.

Valygar and Viconia have got 85, Mazzy 86. Keldorn, have a higher attributs than Khadion (he's got 89). Sarevok's got 96 (but he's extreme).

And NOBODY has ever said that Jaheira, Yoshi, Immy, Nalia, Hear'Dalis and Keldorn (which all have about the same, one point more or less) is overpowered.

Btw, Chloe's got 92, Kelsey's got 82 (83 with the cloak he wears), Solaufein's got 90, Tashia's got 87, Elai's got 85 (and he's Andyr's creation) and Valen's got 85.

Compared to the BW's NPCs and some of the other mods, I do NOT consider him overpowered.

Thanks for the comments and suggestions, though. Don't think I don't appreciate them...

Edited by SConrad, 04 July 2004 - 09:32 AM.

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#8 Meira

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:09 AM

I don't think that it's the stat total that worries people, but rather the distribution of points. :) Try to count together the ability bonuses and compare them rather than the stat total. For example there is only slight difference between having 12 or 14 on any stat, but between 18 and 20 the gap is somewhat more significant.

Good luck to your project! ;)

Edited by Meira, 04 July 2004 - 10:14 AM.

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#9 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:14 AM

Just FYI, the Chloe mod also introduces a daughter for Aran Linvail. IIRC she's been kidnapped, and you have to rescue her.

#10 Darios

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:21 AM

There is also the point that the human maximum for stats is 18 (not taking into account the percentage subdivision of the strength score 18). Unless Khadion is a demi-god or somehow magically enhanced (which might very well be the case, as you mentioned there being reasons for his stats), having a score of 20 in a stat just isn't on the same scale any more. After all, 18 is meant to represent the extent of natural human abilities, ie. "as good as it gets" for humans.

#11 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:26 AM

Aran Linvail having a daughter isn't such a problem. It'd work with Khadion. Nothing prevents him from having siblings.

If the other mods, on the other hand, somwhere say that Aran only have one daughter, then problems occur. But I can add banters with Chloe about his sister, and even banters with Aran if Chloe is installed.

As for the distibution of stats, I want to say that it's the extra bonuses I'm after. I want the difference between Khadion and, for example, Imoen (who have 18), to be significant. As well as Viconia. No other NPC (well, except for Chloe), should be able to match his agility and versaility. That's his main strengh. So I'd rather withdraw two points of strengh than one point of dexterity (I probably will...). As I said in the bio:

...relying more on speed and quickness than strengh.


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#12 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:30 AM

There is also the point that the human maximum for stats is 18 (not taking into account the percentage subdivision of the strength score 18). Unless Khadion is a demi-god or somehow magically enhanced (which might very well be the case, as you mentioned there being reasons for his stats), having a score of 20 in a stat just isn't on the same scale any more. After all, 18 is meant to represent the extent of natural human abilities, ie. "as good as it gets" for humans.

As you said, there are reasons for his "inhuman" dexterity and charisma. It'll all be perfectly explained in the mod.

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#13 -Ashara-

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 10:43 AM

Aran Linvail having a daughter isn't such a problem. It'd work with Khadion. Nothing prevents him from having siblings.

No, nothing does, but having three children of Aran Linvail running around in the game creates player confusion; Sime sits down with PC and tells him a story about Aran True Love and her being a love child who has a love-hate relationship with her father; Khaldion runs into you and tells you that Aran is his step-father whom he wants to get away with and does not recognize striking woman Sime; Chloe comes by and off we go to save Aran's other daughter the other two NPCs have no clue about. Player wonders why Aran waited for Chloe to show up to give such a quest without sending his ablebodied adventurous children after her... that's w/o mentioning the fact that the two able-bodied children seem not to give a damn about their missing sis.

So to avoid that you probably are better of with the disclaimer.

As for his high stats being explained... I beg you not to go into "he is in truth a demi-god/stray child of Bhaal/some incredible being's get/tiefling" etc for which you had opened an avenue making him a fostered child.

#14 Galactygon

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 11:00 AM

It doesn?t matter what you get when you add up the stat totals. I can have someone with 25 charisma, 25 intelligence, 25 wisdom, 1 constitution, 1 dexterity, 1 strength and still say, OMG this is a balanced NPC because the stat totals are less than Sarevok?s.

If you are tired of my whining and is looking for something constructive, sure I'll start making suggestions on those stats.

Setting the stats to these might be a more favorable idea:
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 9
Charisma 15

Something that doesn't make sense to me is having a charisma of 20 and a wisdom of 8. They both play together and aren't mutually exclusive. So I raised the wisdom score and dropped the charisma score. If he'd act the way you described, having a wisdom of 9 and a charisma of 15 is a bit more fitting.

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#15 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 02:18 PM

Aran Linvail having a daughter isn't such a problem. It'd work with Khadion. Nothing prevents him from having siblings.

No, nothing does, but having three children of Aran Linvail running around in the game creates player confusion; Sime sits down with PC and tells him a story about Aran True Love and her being a love child who has a love-hate relationship with her father; Khaldion runs into you and tells you that Aran is his step-father whom he wants to get away with and does not recognize striking woman Sime; Chloe comes by and off we go to save Aran's other daughter the other two NPCs have no clue about. Player wonders why Aran waited for Chloe to show up to give such a quest without sending his ablebodied adventurous children after her... that's w/o mentioning the fact that the two able-bodied children seem not to give a damn about their missing sis.

So to avoid that you probably are better of with the disclaimer.

You're probably right, of course. Dammit! :(

As for his high stats being explained... I beg you not to go into "he is in truth a demi-god/stray child of Bhaal/some incredible being's get/tiefling" etc for which you had opened an avenue making him a fostered child.

I know. There's already a lot of those out there. He is not a demigod or really another being. And don't worry about another Bhaalspawn (there was too many of them before the mods). I will open a door never used in BGII before (as far as I know, but I doubt it), with a huge character development. I don't want my mod to be like everyone else's. That's no sport.

It doesn?t matter what you get when you add up the stat totals. I can have someone with 25 charisma, 25 intelligence, 25 wisdom, 1 constitution, 1 dexterity, 1 strength and still say, OMG this is a balanced NPC because the stat totals are less than Sarevok?s.

Do you consider Sarevok balanced, then?

If you are tired of my whining and is looking for something constructive, sure I'll start making suggestions on those stats.

Whining is good for voice, or so I heard... ;)

Setting the stats to these might be a more favorable idea:
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 9
Charisma 15

Something that doesn't make sense to me is having a charisma of 20 and a wisdom of 8. They both play together and aren't mutually exclusive. So I raised the wisdom score and dropped the charisma score. If he'd act the way you described, having a wisdom of 9 and a charisma of 15 is a bit more fitting.

I might be able to lower the Charisma to 18, without major changes in personality. Wisdom's not going to go higher than 8. Period. Sure, they aren't mutually exclusive. Charisma is also the ability to lead, and I belive that that's mainly what you refer too. I agree, to be able to lead you also need wisdom. You're a better leader with high wisdom.

The problem is that there is more to charisma than being a leader. Looks, charm, persuasivness, personal magnetism, etc. That's where Khadion excells. That is what Khadions prime abilities are, except for the lightning fast reflexes etc (the dexterity-question), of course.

So reducing Cha to less than 18 will be difficult. Wisdom won't increase to more than 8 (he really is the opposite to wise...). Dexterity definently won't decrease, since he needs to be more agile than Viconia and a possible PC-elf with maxed dex. So I'd rather decrease strengh to 12.

As I said before, I do appreciate you questioning me. I really do. No matter what other impressions you might get from my replies.

Edited by SConrad, 04 July 2004 - 02:20 PM.

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#16 Galactygon

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 02:27 PM

In your earlier post you mentioned him as a celebrity among young women and ladies, making him charismatic. I'd be thrilled if your charisma was fully based on charming the same people ~ young ladies.

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#17 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 02:36 PM

In your earlier post you mentioned him as a celebrity among young women and ladies, making him charismatic. I'd be thrilled if your charisma was fully based on charming the same people ~ young ladies.

-Galactygon

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#18 Andyr

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 03:45 PM

Yes, it's not so much the total, it's the distribution. :)

Fast and charismatic he may be, but 18 is the maximum for a normal human. 20 is excessive. You put the stats at 18 (or even 16), we get the point he's fast and charismatic. The extra points won't add to personality; the NPC's character should come from the writing not the stat points.
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#19 SConrad

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 04:42 PM

Yes, it's not so much the total, it's the distribution. :)

Fast and charismatic he may be, but 18 is the maximum for a normal human. 20 is excessive. You put the stats at 18 (or even 16), we get the point he's fast and charismatic. The extra points won't add to personality; the NPC's character should come from the writing not the stat points.

I will probably redistribute (some of) the attributes, due to all of your reactions. <_< :P

Actually, as I was writing some of his character development today, I concluded that a few tweaks would be in order.

Sure, it's the writing that makes a character, but Khadion's stats reflects what kind of person he is. And they're a vital part of his (true) background. The attributes will be discussed in the game, and the reason why he has superhuman dexterity will become clear as Khadion developes. NO, it is NOT another Bhaalspawn, if you thought so. Besides, Renal Bloodscalp (who's not even one of the best thieves in the game) is human, and have a dexterity of 19. I'd like to think that Khadion outmanouvers him every day of the week and twice on sunday. He really is that fast.

But I'll make a few changes, reducing charisma as one of them.

Again, thank you all for pointing this out to me, I (finally) agree that 20 in charisma is excessive, and that'll change. Perhaps wisdom was to low, as well...

I'm stubborn, but I can change...

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#20 Galactygon

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Posted 04 July 2004 - 06:08 PM

Nice work, Andyr. :) Certainly not the first time you managed to convince a stubborn modder. :P

*has a flashback about the optional components debate*

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