102 replies to this topic

[SConrad]

Personally I think having two 18 stats for a young man is questionable, but I am prepared to accept it on account of his story. Also his other stats aren't all that good.

And mr. Shed knows.

[T.G.Maestro]

Maybe it has been asked before, maybe not, but I'd be interested why you think that he should have that solid 18 points in CHA. I know, Khadion is introduced as a "very charming young man", the othe rparts of his behaviour (like "He's got a lot of self-comfindence, which isn't always good for him. He has difficulties with focusing on things except for short periods of time. He's hot-tempered, and that combined with the confidence he has in his own abilities will drag him into occasionally trouble") seems a bit controversial with the possible max score in CHA (for a human at least). I think 16 would be much more fitting according to his biography and introduction.
In other words, a person like him would be considered rather annoying than charismatic in the eyes of many different people (NPC).

[SConrad]

Maybe it has been asked before, maybe not, but I'd be interested why you think that he should have that solid 18 points in CHA. I know, Khadion is introduced as a "very charming young man", the othe rparts of his behaviour (like "He's got a lot of self-comfindence, which isn't always good for him. He has difficulties with focusing on things except for short periods of time. He's hot-tempered, and that combined with the confidence he has in his own abilities will drag him into occasionally trouble") seems a bit controversial with the possible max score in CHA (for a human at least). I think 16 would be much more fitting according to his biography and introduction.
In other words, a person like him would be considered rather annoying than charismatic in the eyes of many different people (NPC).

You do have a fair point, but Khadion's ability to charm and persuade people are at the absolute maximum of a human's abilities. I would perhaps even go as far as call it supernatural, and above that maximum.

Sure, some people might consider him an annoying and spoiled brat, but the "weak-minded" still won't have a chance in resisting his charm.

Why it is that way will be properly explained in the mod.

[T.G.Maestro]

O - K.
I trust your words, though I'll remain a little bit sceptic until I see those proposed explanations.

[Gothic Rose]

Hrrm. First off, I didn't find the statistics horrifying.

Dexterity 20? Ok. I can believe that. He started with an 18. He read a book his Dad imported from Baldur's Gate. Then, after a nice haul, he hired a wizard to cast WISH on him, thus making his quickness and agility even greater. Done.

There are a Helluva lot of ways for someone to raise the statistics of a character. And those ways are especially open to those with great resources.

Y'know. Resources. The whole "Money, Power, I Can Do What I Want" thing. Consider the fact that the Shadow Thieves is a huge organization. It spans entire countries. It secretly has members in the Council which rules what is debatably the wealthiest nation in ALL OF FAERUN.

So is it really that hard to believe that the son of one of the highest ranking members of such an organization had himself magically altered? I know I would. It's like plastic surgery, only...with...um...magic. Instead of rhinoplasty.

Hell, the same could be said for his Charisma. Maybe he used to have a 16. But now it's not.

Although I do totally agree with his Cha not being 20. But really, one 20? I dont think it's a big deal, especially if it's explained well.

[T.G.Maestro]

So is it really that hard to believe that the son of one of the highest ranking members of such an organization had himself magically altered?

It is if you take into consideration his stepfather's stats - somehow they weren't altered by money and power...

Although I do totally agree with his Cha not being 20. But really, one 20?

What are these 20s? So far I've only seen 18s as the highest scores in his stats.

[Gothic Rose]

So is it really that hard to believe that the son of one of the highest ranking members of such an organization had himself magically altered?

It is if you take into consideration his stepfather's stats - somehow they weren't altered by money and power...

Although I do totally agree with his Cha not being 20. But really, one 20?

What are these 20s? So far I've only seen 18s as the highest scores in his stats.

Currently. Originally, he had a 20 in dex, as well as charisma. I'm against the charisma, but I fail to see why a 20 in dex is so horrifically overpoweringly broken.

And Renal's were. He has a 19 dexterity, and to my knowledge, he's human. In ADD2e, the only way for a human to get a 19 is when magic is involved in some way shape or form - be it daddy being the Lord of Murder, a funktastic book you find, hiring a wizard to make you buff, or whatever.

[T.G.Maestro]

Currently. Originally, he had a 20 in dex, as well as charisma

Oh my...

And Renal's were. He has a 19 dexterity, and to my knowledge, he's human. In ADD2e, the only way for a human to get a 19 is when magic is involved in some way shape or form

And you would find it believeable that Renal would allow his stepson to surpass him? Hardly, I say.

[Gothic Rose]

Currently. Originally, he had a 20 in dex, as well as charisma

Oh my...

And Renal's were. He has a 19 dexterity, and to my knowledge, he's human. In ADD2e, the only way for a human to get a 19 is when magic is involved in some way shape or form

And you would find it believeable that Renal would allow his stepson to surpass him? Hardly, I say.

I'd say that it would be possible, though unlikely, to fool him, or trick him into not realizing it. After all, who is the best person to fool him? His son, who knows exactly how his mind works.

Of course, this is all moot since his dex was changed to 18.

[SConrad]

And Renal's were. He has a 19 dexterity, and to my knowledge, he's human. In ADD2e, the only way for a human to get a 19 is when magic is involved in some way shape or form

And you would find it believeable that Renal would allow his stepson to surpass him? Hardly, I say.

Eh... Khadion isn't Renal Bloodscalp's stepson. Renal doesn't have anything to do with the plot.

Aran Linvail is one of the highest ranking persons in the Shadow Thieves, and the highest you meet in the game. Renal has a little rank, but not nearly as much as Aran. An intresting banter will occur between Renal and Khadion, which will view these two as rivals.

This was also one of the main reasons for Khadion's initial 20 in dexterity. Why? He's simply more dexterious than Renal. And that has to do with his origins.

[SConrad]

Of course, this is all moot since his dex was changed to 18.

Nothing's set in stone. I recently talked a little bit with Bob about a major change in the original plot for the mod. We'll see how it works out.

[T.G.Maestro]

Nothing's set in stone.

While I completely respect your decisions on this NPC, I'd like you to keep those max 18 score(s) "set in stone"...

[SConrad]

Nothing's set in stone.

While I completely respect your decisions on this NPC, I'd like you to keep those max 18 score(s) "set in stone"...

At the moment, I hadn't planned to change it. But I don't fancy the Renal-thing, though. :bash:

[Gothic Rose]

Nothing's set in stone.

While I completely respect your decisions on this NPC, I'd like you to keep those max 18 score(s) "set in stone"...

At the moment, I hadn't planned to change it. But I don't fancy the Renal-thing, though. :bash:

Right. Linvail, not Renal. Sorry. I was tired when I posted. Yeah, that's it.

Honestly, I will probably download Khadion and give him a whirl either way - high statistics don't scare me. Considering the fact that about 2% of the population of Faerun (and thats a generous estimate) are adventurers, Adventurers are by their very nature Elite and BEYOND the ken of the normal man. The fact that they -all- wield powerful magics (That's right kiddies. That magic sword? Guess what. No, seriously, guess. It's magical) means that it's quite easy for a successful adventurer midway into their careers (say, level 7-13) to make themselves even more badass - it's what adventurers do, after all.

Ya adventure for loot (Yes, there could be other reasons. But the staple is loot.), go back to a city, sell stuff, buy better stuff, adventure again, etc., etc. It's a vicious circle.

I think it's cool that you're still willing to potentially modify Khadion - I'm sure whatever you decide will be great!

[SConrad]

Thanks for that.

[Gothic Rose]

Thanks for that.

Wow, I just have mad delaying Skizzils. Sorry about that. You are quite welcome. I find that people being scared of high statistics somewhat humorous - adventurers are badass. That's just the way it is.

I'm looking forward to Khadion - he sounds like a blast, and it would be nice to have a full fledged thief for once - I keep ending up with Imoen (who is adequate enough - she has enough Open Lock and Trap skillz for the entire game) but I'd like someone else (I tried Valen, but her speed and misting abilities were just ridiculous. She was better than my Bhaalspawn, and NO ONE can be better than my Bhaalspawn. Ever.)

[T.G.Maestro]

Maybe Aran gave him high dex as a birthday present what ever

Err...
I just LOVE intriguing plot twists like this...

Frankly guys, I'd advise you to take a look at the good-old discussion of ability scores in one of the General Revelry threads. Toying with the posible max ability scores is a cheap way to make a character special.

Considering the fact that about 2% of the population of Faerun (and thats a generous estimate) are adventurers, Adventurers are by their very nature Elite and BEYOND the ken of the normal man.

Yep. They are beyond the average levels, which is 10-11 if we are talking about ability scores. Or do you imagine the majority of Faerun's population running around with stats around 15-16? Man, a STR score of 15 is already way beyond the ken of normal people.

The fact that they -all- wield powerful magics (That's right kiddies. That magic sword? Guess what. No, seriously, guess. It's magical) means that it's quite easy for a successful adventurer midway into their careers (say, level 7-13) to make themselves even more badass - it's what adventurers do, after all.

Having an ability score of 20 from the magical bonuses of a powerful item is a different story than having the same score WITHOUT them.

[SConrad]

TGM is right. The stats stay at a maximum of 18.

[Gothic Rose]

Maybe Aran gave him high dex as a birthday present what ever

Err...
I just LOVE intriguing plot twists like this...

Frankly guys, I'd advise you to take a look at the good-old discussion of ability scores in one of the General Revelry threads. Toying with the posible max ability scores is a cheap way to make a character special.

Considering the fact that about 2% of the population of Faerun (and thats a generous estimate) are adventurers, Adventurers are by their very nature Elite and BEYOND the ken of the normal man.

Yep. They are beyond the average levels, which is 10-11 if we are talking about ability scores. Or do you imagine the majority of Faerun's population running around with stats around 15-16? Man, a STR score of 15 is already way beyond the ken of normal people.

The fact that they -all- wield powerful magics (That's right kiddies. That magic sword? Guess what. No, seriously, guess. It's magical) means that it's quite easy for a successful adventurer midway into their careers (say, level 7-13) to make themselves even more badass - it's what adventurers do, after all.

Having an ability score of 20 from the magical bonuses of a powerful item is a different story than having the same score WITHOUT them.

Actually, a 15 isn't that far beyond the ken of normal people - assuming only one fifteen. You seem to think that EVERYONE has ALL 9-11's. That's not true. The majority of people have a few lower stats, a few highers, and most in the middle. Like these examples:

Dock Worker, Male Human
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 11
Cha 9

Farmer, Male Human
Str 10
Dex 9
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10

Guard, Male Dwarf
Str 14
Dex 8
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 11
Cha 8

Village Wisewoman, Female Human
Str 7
Dex 9
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 12

And so on so forth. Average stats are just what they are. Average. Which means that if you tally up the average citizens, then they come out to 9-11. It's not that every average farmer has 10/10/10/11/11/11.