89 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Probably you're right, I said Toril because it's only planet from the Prime which I know about.

BTW, can anyone tell me who are the creators of the Multiverse ? One it's Ahriman. Others ???

[Feanor]

This is only one theory, but apparently the two original beings that created the multiverse are Jaziarn and Ahriman, to great serpent-like beings of law. They are each other's Yin and Yang. Have you ever seen the movie or read the book of the Neverending Story, I imagine Jaziarn and Ahriman together look something like Auryn. Oh, and Jaziarn is the god of coatls. Anyway, sometime untold eons ago, they had a little spat, I can't remember over what, and Ahriman was cast down. He fell through the lower planes, into Baator and hit the seventh layer so hard he knocked another two layers onto Baator, thus we have seven levels of Mt. Celestia and now nine levels of Baator.

The whole AD&D is based on theories. BTW, thanks for the info.

[Feanor]

In AD&D, gods and demon lords can be killed. What about the archdevils ? The Lords of the Nine Hells can be killed (at least theoretically speaking) ?

[Stone Wolf]

Well, to kill a God you have to stop people from worshipping it (at least for the most part). All you can "kill" is their physical avatar. Demon lords who are worshipped by large numbers of creatures are probably similar.

[Feanor]

Well, to kill a God you have to stop people from worshipping it (at least for the most part). All you can "kill" is their physical avatar. Demon lords who are worshipped by large numbers of creatures are probably similar.

Or to kill them in their homeplane, I think.

[Stone Wolf]

I think it's possibly to actually kill a god, but it would basically take another god (or gods) to do it.

[Archmage Silver]

I proved that it doesn't take a god to kill a god. You know, in that another thread.

[Stone Wolf]

Theoretically you could also build a ladder to the moon. Intend on trying that?

[Stone Wolf]

That's a little blunt, but I'm glad someone agrees with me.

Let me put it this way. A Power can kill you any way it chooses, any time it chooses. They don't normally run around smiting each other's followers because then it would just become a war and they'd all die. If a mortal actually tries to kill a Power, then it has just cause to defend itself. In the midst of all the protective items I've seen (and I've read the Encyclopaedia Magic from cover to cover), I've never seen an item that grants any protection against Divine Will. Another Power could possibly make that, but then we're back to a mortal acting as a proxy for another Power.

[Archmage Silver]

Oh ho ho. Unbelievers are you? Hehehee. SOME gods are too foolish and they do fall down. You just need the right tools... and I'm not changing my mind whatever anyone says, so this entire conversation is pointless.

[Feanor]

Oh ho ho. Unbelievers are you? Hehehee. SOME gods are too foolish and they do fall down. You just need the right tools... and I'm not changing my mind whatever anyone says, so this entire conversation is pointless.

Archmage, I think you're not refering to Time of Troubles, when the gods were stripped of their divine power and so Cyric managed to kill Bhaal with Godsbane...

[NiGHTMARE]

But as I already said, what about the gods' allies? Taking on one being whose combined class levels are equal to twice or three times your own is one thing, but taking on two or more is another.

[Feanor]

Yes, but, in this case, I wonder why Mystryl allies did not interfere when Karsus casted his spell...

[NiGHTMARE]

Karsus' spell did not kill Mystryl, it simply took one aspect of her portfolio away from her (i.e. control of the Weave). Gods don't have any control over portfolios, so only Ao could have possibly intervened... and it's likely everything happened to quickly for even him to take action in time.

[Stone Wolf]

Oh ho ho. Unbelievers are you? Hehehee. SOME gods are too foolish and they do fall down. You just need the right tools... and I'm not changing my mind whatever anyone says, so this entire conversation is pointless.

Archmage, I think you're not refering to Time of Troubles, when the gods were stripped of their divine power and so Cyric managed to kill Bhaal with Godsbane...

Which, iirc, was itself an aspect of a Power.

[Kish]

Sort of. Godsbane was Mask's avatar.

[LordKableNikon]

Ok to point things out, why Toril is under constant attack by demons and gods, is because mortals... Mortals have souls and what keeps the gods strong is worship and what makes demons and devils stronger is souls and time... but souls help... now Gods CAN die, on the home plane by a mortal just most gods have certain strata of power which prevents them from dieing from beings of lesser divine status. So if the mortals refuse to worship.... gods go poof... like amaunator people just forgot.... so it is mortals who have the power, and then there are mortals who can pierce the barriers of the abyss and so forth and summon arch-devils and demon lords from out of no where... so mortals of the prime material plane have abilities that NO other outsider has... so that is why Toril is so much under such scrutiny. It is quite possible to kill an avatar of a god and to kill the god itself is possible for a mortal just the chance of said action succeeding is well, the chance of a Paper Dog successfully catches an Asbestos Cat through Hell...

[Archmage Silver]

If there is even a small change of success, it is possible. Of course, there is no such thing as coincidence.