100 replies to this topic

[Tate]

I would say that the interaction between the NPC and the other characters is the most important thing. It adds to the role playing side of games, and makes the character more interesting in general.

Although I am fond of a character that has some humour value

EDIT: Thank you, K'aeloree!

Edited by Tate, 16 December 2006 - 09:05 PM.

[Kaeloree]

Welcome to SHS, Tate!

[berelinde]

Great thread. I want quality in all of the categories. I don't care too much about tactical stuff/gadgets/kits. I'm ok with what's already in the game. I want quality character development. Which is why I picked quality over quantity, although the mod should not feel sparse.

If we're going to talk about the third item up from the bottom, I want it to be present, but low-key: erotic without being graphic. I want to know what is going on, but I would prefer to have it implied rather than stated.

Above all, I want dialog choices covering a variety of options.

Saying "You punch him in the 1) nose 2) chin 3) stomach" is no choice, as far as I'm concerned. I would prefer "You 1) punch him in the nose 2) say 'can't we all just get along' 3) run like hells"

Edited by BGhead, 17 December 2006 - 12:39 PM.

[Zyraen]

I think for me, the important factors would be

- interaction, banters
- seamlessness (ie fitting in)
- an engaging storyline
- a realistic personality

Edited by Zyraen, 30 December 2006 - 06:35 PM.

[Azkyroth]

I think for me, the important factors would be

- interaction, banters
- seamlessness (ie fitting in)
- an engaging storyline
- a realistic personality

I've probably said this elsewhere, but I would suggest combining the last two: any unusual or prominent elements of the NPC's personality should be conceptualized as learned responses to general conditions or specific events in that NPC's history ("it's in their nature" is lazy and unrealistic; genetic temperament as an explanation should be used sparingly and clearly illustrated in the backstory). This helps in, and at some level is non-negotiable for, building a realistic and sensible NPC, and as such seems to be implicitly understood by most people who write them but should perhaps be made explicit. I don't think it necessarily matters whether you start with aspects of the character's past or aspects of personality.

[berelinde]

I've probably said this elsewhere, but I would suggest combining the last two: any unusual or prominent elements of the NPC's personality should be conceptualized as learned responses to general conditions or specific events in that NPC's history ("it's in their nature" is lazy and unrealistic; genetic temperament as an explanation should be used sparingly and clearly illustrated in the backstory).

Only to a point. I would not expect someone with an unusually placid temperment to need a long-winded explanation for it.

If said NPC also lost that placidity and went ballistic in a fit of jealous rage if Salvanas hit on the pc, I would probably want to know why.

[Azkyroth]

Only to a point. I would not expect someone with an unusually placid temperment to need a long-winded explanation for it.

If said NPC also lost that placidity and went ballistic in a fit of jealous rage if Salvanas hit on the pc, I would probably want to know why.

Precious little needs a long-winded explanation, at least so far as these traits and their story origins go. This is one of the places where "show-don't-tell" really shines.

[Zyraen]

Personality doesn't need to be explained too much or unnaturally, as long as it isn't too forceful or obviously unnatural. Little historical nuances can be released in the course of the game, but there shouldn't be too much explanation.

A good character I guess is one where, after you get familiar with them, by and large you can guess their general reaction to almost any situation, but very occasionally under some circumstances they react differently and one wonders why... after all most real Characters have their own Quirks.

Of course a truly lovely situation where you take the same NPCs in separate games, complete the same quests, read the same banters (or slightly different ones), and have a totally different understanding of what they say, because of how you understand the characters better.

Edited by Zyraen, 02 January 2007 - 07:21 PM.

[Azkyroth]

Personality doesn't need to be explained too much or unnaturally, as long as it isn't too forceful or obviously unnatural. Little historical nuances can be released in the course of the game, but there shouldn't be too much explanation.

This is more or less what I meant with "show-don't-tell" and the comment that things don't need a longwinded explanation. This is what I'm doing with Arkalian, for instance: there are a number of elements of her personality that really stand out. As her life history is explored in dialogue, a thoughtful player should be able to draw the connections. Thoughtless players are on their own.

[Zyraen]

I think a good storyline should also involve thoughtful players figuring out the missing links, and thoughtless players will never have the full picture spelt out explicitly for them.

[Lt.Shocker]

Raw Killing Power FTW(power is better for everyone it pwns all thats why I hax my character)oh and if i could vote for two i'd say Fits in the world choice

Edited by Lt.Shocker, 06 March 2007 - 08:42 AM.

[Mahng]

I chose Quality of banters ... . Ultimately the most important thing to me is an interesting and believable character that adds more depth to the story which would include forming a relationship with PC and NPCs. Either a funny character OR funny circumstances is a definite plus.

Seemless with other NPCs is not superimportant - for example, Tashia's text remarks after sleeping are cool, and more than the usual 1-3 response options is totally ok. Fade is my best example of an ideal NPC.

That being said, character class and power (WITHOUT cheating, superstats & superweapons) IS important as in keeping with role-playing, there has to be something about the NPC that commands your respect to want him to join. It was very difficult to take Keto along in my party though I enjoyed her dialogue and story (I eventually had to train her to be effective with a bow as a fighter/thief/mage in order to keep her). Personally I think the Bard class stinks. Who stands back and sings while their friends are fighting for their lives? Or sings while I'm trying to sneak through a dungeon? Sorry, I digress. No tomatoes from the bard lovers pls.

Edited by Mahng, 29 July 2007 - 03:47 PM.

[Emzeror]

Hard to vote for one option only

But I voted for:
"Lots and lots of banter, just keep talking"

Only thing I really miss with the bioware charachters. Let's say Forgotten Realms is the real-life world. Where you are the PC for example. After you've slain a dragon, would you just pick up the scale and run to Crom Faeyr? I guess not, I guess there would be some kind of "party" or atleast saying something to your beloved Aerie (Just an example ). It would also increase Anomens braging by 1000.

Secondly and Thirdly I think:
"Quality Interaction with other NPCs" and CHARNAME and "Love and Romance" - I can't choose which one to be 2nd or which one to be 3rd.
If it should be reality based, which I like it most to look like, both of the parts are important. In 99% of the cases, you are a person walking around for ½ year slaying beasts in your quest for Irencius head, you kinda want to have someone dear to you to cry out to, just lean to and smooth-talk with. Maybe even have sex, kissing etc.

And it is unlikely that during that half-year of wandering, you will only talk about humor, sex and beastslaying. You will have some intime and serious discussions going on, arguing etc.

So top favorite mod so far is the "Saeirleth"(?Spelling) mod. I haven't tried out any for real here on SHS yet, so can't say that they are worse/better tou. But to me they seem to be kinda "empty" for my taste, 1 to 2 banthers with the Bioware NPCs. But what I've heard, their own storys should be intressting enough. Will test them out some time.

Well, that's it for me

[berelinde]

I, too, enjoy chatty NPCs.

And you've got a point, Emzeror, the game is more enjoyable when the NPCs observe current events.

It does seem that many NPC mods neglect that. Kivan offers chapter-specific dialogue, as does Gavin (but that's still Tutu/BGT only, I'm afraid), but for many of them, you could recruit them anywhere, anytime, and the dialogue wouldn't change all that much.

The BG1 NPC project offers a few places where nearly the entire party participates in "group banters," and they're very entertaining, but even these are not dependent on game events. It would definitely be nice to have some kind of debriefing, say, after taking out Firkraag. I'm sure that a lot of character development could take place while the various characters were busy being elated/relieved/incredulous/proud/coming-down-off-a-berserker-rage.

[Azkyroth]

It would definitely be nice to have some kind of debriefing, say, after taking out Firkraag.

Emphasis mine. Was this choice of words intentional?

Anyway, I had some of the elements related to this suggestion in mind for Arkalian (in particular, the Fallen Paladins quest for the Radiant Heart results in at least one related banter each with Keldorn, Anomen, and a paladin PC, and several similar things in that vein) but I'll keep it in mind for further development.

As for the other NPCs, what exactly do you mean by "empty"? ("No, Arkalian, you may not question him about plausible definitions of 'empty' that exclude Saerileth").

[Kulyok]

IWD NPC takes this too far, perhaps: partly because of IWD engine structure, partly because of my personal tastes, *all* dialogue is event-dependent, chapter-dependent, or setting-dependent. Yes, they are talking about different things, from potatoes and icicles(don't ask) to philosophy and religion, but each banter is tied to a specific chapter, or a specific place.

It seems that event-dependent(chapter-specific, whatever) dialogue is now more or less mandatory for newer NPC mods. Amber, Angelo, Gavin, Kivan, Tiax, Xan, and so on and so forth. (And, yes, yes, Xan offers only too much event-specific dialogue, whether in SoA, ToB, BG1, Tutu or BGT).

EDIT: Sorry, typos.

Edited by Kulyok, 31 January 2008 - 03:27 AM.

[Emzeror]

...that exclude Saerileth").

Yep that is only mod I've seen that has that kind of talk, but the only problem is, should've been ten times more

Btw, I've made a REALLY messy post in the mod forum now, about "Xellan", a NPC I've recently started (Still on learning parts with WeiDU, but as soon as I get a hand on that!). I got two weakness,
1th Get life into text, when I should make a drama dialog it will be like "WHOAW WE DID IT GUYS WE RULE!" I am not much better than that
2nd WeiDU sucks because I can't easily learn it
(But that was a fake one.)
2nd My experience with AD&D is almost close to 0. If you say alignment I say "9 Different, don't ask me about them, they exist!" or something similiar So guess I will have to study abit on it.

Will be way booring doing all banters dependant on each other... but that is another problem.

Anyway, On-Topic now, Well yeah the only "okay" made part of the BioWare NPCs are Anomen's. With his family, love talk, Paladin drama etc. But let's say every charachter had that at minimum, then I would be satisfied. Ofcourse some charachters don't match to talk in some places, for example, Viconia in Underdark, she is more scared than a mouse trying to outrun a cat. So there is a logical explanation. But let's take Nalia, is she living in celebat? Or did she swear to some god that she would never be attracted by a man/girl? Blahblah you get my point

[Eric P.]

My greatest concern with the joinable NPC mod I'm developing for BGII is that her interaction with other party members (and, now that I think of it, reactions and responses to some of the non-joinable NPCs in the game) be engaging and worthwhile, including enough Realms- and race-specific content to lend credibility to her as a native of that campaign setting. I've got a thread going at G3 about this, but I fear I didn't address the subject clearly. the Elfwood Web site has a writing section (FARP, if memory serves) where I found questions we should ask ourselves about character development. I find this as useful for fleshing out a role-playing character as for creating a character in a work of fiction. So, I'm currently answering all the questions to more completely detail the mod NPC, and I'm thinking of posting the finished notes on a Web site, so others can read them and hopefully assist me in selecting some subject matter for the NPC's conversations in the game.

I, too, like a chatty NPC, such as Kivan, Chloe, and Yasraena. I also find that Kiyone and Kova are marvelously detailed, and I appreciate all characters who will converse with various party members, in addition to the protagonist

Happy modding,
Eric

[Kellen]

the Elfwood Web site has a writing section (FARP, if memory serves) where I found questions we should ask ourselves about character development. I find this as useful for fleshing out a role-playing character as for creating a character in a work of fiction.

Would you mind posting a link? Or PMing me the questions?

EDIT: Also what's the language/translation for your sig?

Edited by Kellen, 24 February 2008 - 01:12 PM.