Pirengle

TCPH's "People to Hate" - where can I find a copy? Not that I really need more help with this, but its always fun to have more sources.

That list exists only in print, contains many Hollins-specific references, and if people think what I posted was offensive, boy howdy... But, I'll talk to the author about sharing it.

The Tao teaches that all things are fine till you go against the natural way of things
And talking to the most of the contributers here on fanfic
They feel the forum dynamics here are fine and i personaly see no reason to change them
correct me if im wrong , but so far the only people to voice displesure are you , and moreina. Everyone else seems happy enough and we have a good flow of work here , i personaly enjoy the atmosphere and dont wish it to change

Moreina and I are the only ones talking out loud where people can hear. I've heard from others don't care or don't want to trash their reputations by raising a ruckus. (This whole anonymity thing irks me just as much as the other racket I've been raising.) For what I've read, it's clear to me that some people share my opinions but are just as happy to watch me get in trouble for them. Which is all fine well and good, if you really care about such things as an Internet forum for fan fiction unpublishable anywhere but the Internet. But that's a different cause for a different day. ^_^

except when things have on that occasion ddegenerated to a childish argument
but credit to mg on rescuing that thread without post deletion
personaly i delete my comments pertaining to the event i make no secret that they happend but i also dont want some new memember being scared off by harse feelings and grudges

Yeah, I'm sorry that I started the revolution on Gothic Angel's thread. Maybe when I've lost my bitterness, I'll take another crack at constructive criticism.

The Gospel According to Og. I love it.

Question: big furry pig? Does Og chase mammoths?

Also, the part about forum dynamics seems needless to me. I have just gotten here and apart from elfwood I have never been a member of any online community? and I have figured out those ?forum dynamics? ? I don?t think anyone needs to have it cut out for them like that, and I also fail to see the relevance of such a section in context with a fan fiction guide. It is the sort of thing I would have found funny, but I don?t because it?s not meant to be.

That needs the heaviest editing to make it less forum-specific. Ao the Moderator, as I see it, is a forum leader/moderator who sides with no one yet holds absolute power. The Cocke Players at Hollins have an Ao the Moderator. In fact, I took TCPH's "People to Hate" list and worked off that. I tried to make some examples BG2 specific, since the majority of people writing for this board write for BG2, but it's probably better if I stick with general fanfic terms.

Puffkage makes a very good point about the critique. Sometimes an author might add a warning that he does not wish to receive any negative feedback - yes, I've seen this. And yes, those looking for an opportunity to tear another hapless sap to shreds might be annoyed that they are stripped of their opportunity - but a writer's wish has to be respected. If you still want to add something critical that you feel is extremely important - there is always the PM.

Negative feedback and constructive criticism are two different things. I can tell the difference between "this story sucks and so do you" and "this story needs help but if you fix things it will roxxor"; I've posted both ways. If someone doesn't know how to use punctuation or keeps flipping back and forth between present and past tense, I'll point it out. Chances are that other people have the same problem. That's why this is a fanfic community.

As to respecting the author's wishes, if people don't want to get comments that aren't OMG ROXXORS, they shouldn't post it in public. They should get an account at fanfic.net or afterdark or even a blog and post their stories there.

The part about forum dynamics is in a way just as relevant as the part about critisism and I would have united the two. It deals with the publishing part of fanfiction. It would have been nice if it was expanded to finding a thematic forum and included some links to ff boards. One can agree or disagree about the appropriateness of the given advice since it is breaches the rules of many a writting board, but it is a good idea to think in advance on how you would try to integrate into a new community and what you'd like to do prior to just closing your eyes and pressing this post button hopping for the best.

Originally I planned to put in links for plot and term examples from various BG2 fanfic, but didn't want to be up even later than 6am. There's a Newbie's Guide to Forum Posting around someplace with a section about posting creative works; I'll email the author and ask if I can quote it.

notmrt (and MG and VH as well), I'm glad that MG and VH are handpicking their own task force on how to make fanfic better. I am a highly unloved arrogant troll, but I can give advice just as well as a handpicked task force, and I've done so. Granted, it needs editing and finishing, but I think it can be a good solid document if I work on it hard enough. And unlike Eminem, I can take criticism just as well as I can give it and expect nothing less from anyone who reads my words. So I thank everyone for their opinions and hope they'll continue giving their opinions as I finish my Gospel.

as i belive this thread had comments regaurding the way the forum was run and thus interlinking it with the thread in which MG had stated her intentions for the development of the board

My thoughts when reading the Temple of Oghma thread: "Huh. People are going to write fanfic tutorials. Maybe I can write something to show people that I'm a productive jerk instead of just a jerk."

This ties into the "screwing forum dynamics" part of the Gospel. I doubt the Gospel would have been written at all if MG had posted an open call for people to write their own advice. I believe everyone should be able to give their opinion if they're a part of a community and other people should have the right not to like it. People could have sent in bits and pieces of their ways of writing, and the moderators could have culled the advice and created a manifesto of sorts. But I got the feeling that not everyone would be able to have their say once the Temple of Oghma got underway. So I had my say.

Given this, I don't see how the segment about the forum dynamics can be seen for anything else but plain, poorly disguised attempt at mockery.

That's funny--I have a few yahoo groups giving me hell for it because they think I'm making fun of them in the forum dynamic. Lesson learned: tailor your advice for the community at large, and not the community specific. (What, did you think I stayed awake for so long to post only at FWMC and PPG?)

I think it's the general consensus that the forum dynamics need work. Unfortunately, I'm at my job, so I have to be doing work of another kind for ~4 hours. If I exorcise the BG2 references from that part, replace them with generic references, and add information for newbies and regulars alike, do y'all think that would work?

I also want to keep sticking my own opinion in there, and make this my work. I know the controversial bits got edited out, but this was called the Gospel According to Pirengle for a reason: a collection of story writing and fan fiction writing advice according to me. Everyone's Gospel is different--even in the New Testament, there are four recountings of similar events, as told by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. (I think--not familiar with the New Testament.) It's important that you read various Gospels to learn the rules, practice an awful lot by writing an awful bunch, and figure out which rules apply to you, which rules you can change, and which rules you should throw out.

And thank you, VH, for your comments. Very much appreciated. And I haven't seen userunfriendly yet. ;)

This thread has been edited, and not by me. To read the unedited version, please read this thread. Rated 'E' for everyone!

WAYS TO SPARK YOUR WRITING

Get your blah writing better with these tried-and-true methods.

Overdetail: It’s hard to put descriptions into your story. It’s much easier to pull out the extraneous ones during editing. While writing, go into extreme detail: sights, sounds, smells, furniture placement, light levels, etc. Later, during editing, use those extreme details to your advantage by adjusting their effects. The protagonist might not notice the shadowed alleyways while walking towards the Copper Coronet, but he/she’ll probably notice them when the street muggers are skulking about, looking for their next victim.

The movie version: When I write, I break my stories up into little movies and imagine them playing in my head as I type. Different locations become scenes. I imagine a camera focusing on those scenes, and characters within them. I switch to different scenes with different movie cuts, from fades (where one scene slowly transitions to another) to jumps (where one scene quickly transitions to another, usually with some similarity or ironic contradiction tying the two scenes together). It helps me uncover the plot and build suspense. Other writers use outlines, where they write down every event in chronological order, and work off that when creating their stories.

“Is this trip really necessary?”: Back in WWII America, when resources were strictly rationed, many railroad and bus terminals usually posted a sign saying “Is this trip really necessary?” The signs caused people to think about their planned excursions and if their trips were really worth the fuel and resources required for transportation. As a result, less unnecessary travel occurred. This same principle can be applied to your story. First, examine each scene. Is there any information in that scene that doesn’t contribute to the plot, major or minor? Is there a conversation that doesn’t establish characterization or plot-critical themes? If so, either add what that part needs to become one with the plot or chop out that part altogether. If it doesn’t add to the story, why is it weighing the story down?

hooks: These are devices that make characters keep reading. It’s meant to draw you into the action, make you concerned about what’s happening in the story. Plot hooks are teases. They tell the reader, “look at me! Am I not an interesting little tidbit? But you’re going to have to follow me if you want more…” Good plot hooks nip the reader by the collar and take the reader someplace, and the reader doesn’t mind being grabbed. Plot hooks are almost necessary when you start your story. Never start with descriptions. Give a bit of establishment (remember the “This is the city, Los Angeles, California” establishing shot from the Dragnet series?); follow it up with a bit of location (“We were working the daywatch out of homocide.”); hook the reader with a juicy tidbit (“We received a phonecall from the northside--shots fired at an abandoned warehouse, gunman seen with screaming baby.”); and a small bit of character description before we get the ball rolling (“My partner is Bill Gannon. My name’s Friday.”). This leaves the reader knowing that two LA detectives, Gannon and Friday, are investigating a possible murder. But why were the shots fired at a supposedly abandoned warehouse? Why was the gunman with a screaming child? Those small but tantalizing details make the reader want to know what’s going on, and as a result, be drawn to and interested with the plot.

twists: The best way I can think of to explain a plot twist is to use one from the game. Irenicus and Imoen disappear, taken by the Cowled Wizards. The Shadow Thieves have information on both, but instead of leading <CHARNAME> to their whereabouts, the organization asks for 20,000 gold pieces. When the party pays the fee, the Shadow Thieves reveal that Irenicus and Imoen are most likely in Spellhold, but instead of teleporting the party to Spellhold, Aran Linvail hires Saemon Havarian to take the party there. The party discovers Irenicus’ plans (in his “you warrant no villain’s exposition from me” villain’s exposition) and attempts to foil them, but instead of freeing Imoen, <CHARNAME> is tortured and the party is forced to run a maze then confront Irenicus. Instead of slaying him, Irenicus runs away. (Lame). The party looks for a way out, but instead of being able to travel back to the Athkatla area to follow up on the Suldanessellar hints, the party is forced to travel to the Underdark to get back to Athkatla or go with Saemon and end up in Sahuagin City and then the Underdark and then to Athkatla. (Same difference.) The party frees itself from its chapter-long detour, but instead of chasing down Irenicus and killing him once and for all, the party must first retrieve the means to chase down Irenicus, the Rhynn Lanthorn. Finally, the party is in Suldanessellar, but instead of chasing down Irenicus and killing him once and for all, they must find a way to break open the palace. And so on and so forth. Now, go back and find every “instead” in that long paragraph. Every clause that starts with “instead” is a direct plot path. But getting exactly where you want to go in a plot is boring, ne? So the plot makes an abrupt turn away from this direct path, in the form of a twist. This twist can be a roadblock (“you must do X before Y can happen”) or a “you’re not supposed to do this yet” moment (Irenicus’ lame runaway bit in Spellhold). But it’s twists like these that keep the reader frustrated just enough to make them want to read more.