3 replies to this topic

[aigleborgne]

Hello

I was excited to test your shapefix module but... I was disapointed !

First, I have tested the ease-to-use shapefix version, greatly overpowered. But the werewolf and greater werewolf were quite good.

Werewolf in game:
Monster lvl 7, thac0 10, AC 1, 2 atk/round, 20% magic resistance, immunity to normal weapons. 1D12 (act as +2) slash paws

Greater werevolf:
Monster lvl 8, thac0 6, AC -6, 3 atk/round, immunity to normal weapons, regen 3hp/rnd, and many resistances. 2D8 (act as +3) slash paws


From memory, you gave:
- AC of 3 and -3
- immunity to sleep (maybe from bestiary book ?)
- 4D10 heal when recovering human form
- regeneration 2hp/sec for wolfwere
- 1D6 thrust paws (act as +2) : the one we were given by bioware
- others corrects stat

My point of view:

Static thac0 is a problem, it doesn't scale with druid level. with 6 at end of game/TOB, you won't hit many things.
So, I gave a thac0 bonus of 6 and 10 (wolwere/greater w.)
A wolwere lvl 7 will have a base of thac0 of 10, while a greater w. lvl 20 will have a base thac0 of 0

Immunity to normal weapons & Regen. for wolfwere are too powerful.
I have tried it in BG1(tutu) and there is no more fun with that. I removed them. (15 con is not supposed to have regen?)

I gaved AC of 1 and -6, like other wolfwere.

8D6 heal : according to druid book, he gains 10-60% health (1D6 x 10%).
It was impossible to program that so I have based that on a full HP dice lvl 9 druid (72-90 hp). 8-48hp was the best on my opinion

paws : I use the same as werewolf monsters (1D12 (2) and 2D8 (3))

45hp bonus for having 25 con. (5*9, using fighter bonus table). This seems logical to me.

resistances : I have set them to "inc/dec" instead of "set". Because I think that natural resist. and/or items/spells should stack

saving throws : 1/1/1/2/1 as ingame g. werewolf

stun of 6s instead of 3 while morphing to natural form : seems better, but sometimes it doesn't working at all. what about a stun while morph. to werewolf as well ?

another thing : I think this kit was not supposed to wear helms, because it is a piece of armor. I don't wear one with my druid and critical hit are lethal


It took me about 20hrs to modify all that (first attempt to modify IE engine) but the result is fine.

I have also tested the HLA feral rage and there is a huge bug:
After taking the HLA, I have 1/1 were/gwere form.

I would see many HLA for this kit, each one improving a bit one aspect.
- improve paws to +4
- improve atk/rnd to 4
- immunity to fear : how a greater wolfwere can be scared?
...
But it could be unbalanced, I don't know yet

About game balance:
I have actually solo BG1 to chap.5 and the werewolf is fine : die easily to horrors, black guard, archers, but is a quite good fighter overall.
Fire elemental is unbalanced in BG1 (due to immunity to normal weapons), have to use mountain bears instead (which are very good, but can be killed)

I will be lvl 13 soon in chap 6 or 7. Will be fine to test G. were in durlag tower and isles. And then... BG2/ToB

[Littiz]

First, I have tested the ease-to-use shapefix version, greatly overpowered. But the werewolf and greater werewolf were quite good.

AND, you have to "equip" paws yourself, AND, you get some non-druidical powers, AND, not all the forms are fixed.
Not all that comes from Wes is as perfect as WeiDU.. also, he doesn't seem to care about roleplaying consinstency, often
Anyway, we're talking about two different approaches to the problem.

Immunity to normal weapons & Regen. for wolfwere are too powerful.
I have tried it in BG1(tutu) and there is no more fun with that. I removed them. (15 con is not supposed to have regen?)

There's been already a lot of debate about such issues. I think I've already applied some changes here, but probably we're talking about changes I applied for Version 2, so they're not released yet.
Anyway consider that not all can be done with this engine, so I consider this fix a good approximation of a "correct" behaviour for shapeshifting (which was simply a total mess in the original BG2).
I will further revise the whole thing when Cam and I will finally find the time to work together on the "final" version of the fix we've debated about.

I have also tested the HLA feral rage and there is a huge bug:
After taking the HLA, I have 1/1 were/gwere form.

Not a bug!
There was a bug in the original game, since the greater form was always meant to be capped at 1 use/day. Refinements' fix restores this.
Feral spirit also makes the lesser form usable at will (as per the description).
You can just use it, and you'll see that the icon will show up again.

[aigleborgne]

AND, you have to "equip" paws yourself, AND, you get some non-druidical powers, AND, not all the forms are fixed.

That is exactly why I gave up his mod (although I have only taken the good part of his mod : paws). Equiping and un-equiping paws was tedious after 4 hours of play. Not to mention many problems relating to the paws.

I really like your system, it's nearly perfect

There's been already a lot of debate about such issues. I think I've already applied some changes here, but probably we're talking about changes I applied for Version 2, so they're not released yet.

I can't wait to test version 2

[Littiz]

I remember now that for V2 I left weapon immunity only to the greater form, while the lesser one keeps just a bit of regeneration. With feral spirit even the lesser form gains immunity, while the greater form's immunity improves (or something like that).

Immunity to Sleep was granted for "technical reasons".
I thought it wasn't much of a deal after all, and it can have some logic.
Anyway, we should be able to remove it (if needed) in the future (again, when we'll join forces with CamDawg).

About thac0 improvements and all, I don't think we should implement it.
Kit abilities are usually "fixed", and they do tend to become less useful as you gain levels.
If you want to make shapeshifting your strong point, then you have the option of specializing as shapeshifter, and gain access to Feral Spirit later on... but we're talking about improvements that come with a HLA.
Also a level based system would require a heavy amount of work, which I'd consider unjustified, at this point

"Generic" shapeshifting usually sets resistances and physical attributes, while the rest (non-physical attributes, saving throws, etc) remains unaffected.

Hope I've been exhaustive

Thx for the feedback, we will consider revising something (as 8D6 heal thing )

Edited by Littiz, 26 January 2005 - 02:10 AM.