20 replies to this topic

[Adder]

Does anyone have some more detailed information about the god Mask? He appears to be the god of thiefs in BG2 and I know he lost control about intrigues during this incident with Cyric. Are there more aspects of life he's watching over?

And what about his priests? From the description of a Mask-Priest in IWD2 I know they tend to hang around in thief-guilds, but does he also have bigger temples? Does his priesthood follow any special commandmends?

[Deathsangel]

Try PM'ing Andyr. I believe he has quite some lore on that area.

I am not into Mask. I know only a few AD&D gods well. My lore contains other areas.

Edited by Deathsangel, 28 February 2005 - 01:03 AM.

[Adder]

Thanks, I'll try that.

[Feanor]

Thanks, I'll try that. 

Adder, if you PM Andyr, post the answer here, I'm also interested.

[Andyr]

He did - I'm pretty busy at the moment so didn't have much to say but suggested trying the WotC boards as some people will know loads. Or get hold of Faiths and Pantheons or Faiths and Avatars.

Essentially he is an Intermediate Deity of thieves and thievery, and is NE. During the Time of Troubles he took the form of a sword, Godsbane, which Cyric (then mortal) acquired) and then used to kill Bhaal. After Cyric killed Kelemvor (also, then mortal), Mask trapped him inside the sword to hide him from Cyric. Cyric got wise to it and broke Godsbane, thus decreasing Mask's power. This info is essentially all in the Avatar series of novels.

As far as I can remember there aren't any particular oddities to his faith.

[NiGHTMARE]

I'll post some stuff from F&A later today .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 06 March 2005 - 05:00 PM.

[Deathsangel]

He did - I'm pretty busy at the moment so didn't have much to say but suggested trying the WotC boards as some people will know loads. Or get hold of Faiths and Pantheons or Faiths and Avatars.

Essentially he is an Intermediate Deity of thieves and thievery, and is NE. During the Time of Troubles he took the form of a sword, Godsbane, which Cyric (then mortal) acquired) and then used to kill Bhaal. After Cyric killed Kelemvor (also, then mortal), Mask trapped him inside the sword to hide him from Cyric. Cyric got wise to it and broke Godsbane, thus decreasing Mask's power. This info is essentially all in the Avatar series of novels.

As far as I can remember there aren't any particular oddities to his faith.

I always noticed Cyric did a lot! That is why Kido worships him. I mean how many god did Cyric in mortal form either kill or decrease in power. This story it is already three. How do you hide a dead god in a sword anyway? Kelemvor is dead right?

[Andyr]

Kelemvor was a dead mortal at the time. He didn't become a deity until he took Death from Cyric. Now he's the god of Death.

NiGHT: Since Faiths and Avatars is not Open Gaming License content, I am not sure if it is legal to post large sections of it. Which is why I didn't.

[NiGHTMARE]

I don't intend to post every single relevant piece of info nor do I plan to do so word-for-word... which is why I said I'd post "some stuff" .

Anyway, I didn't have time today, but I should definitely be able to do so tommorow .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 07 March 2005 - 05:36 PM.

[Deathsangel]

Kelemvor was a dead mortal at the time. He didn't become a deity until he took Death from Cyric. Now he's the god of Death.

NiGHT: Since Faiths and Avatars is not Open Gaming License content, I am not sure if it is legal to post large sections of it. Which is why I didn't.

Huh? Wasn't Kelemvor a god, killed by Cyric when in mortal form? That is what I understood of your first post. Along with the fact that Mask hid Kelemvor in the blade (thus with him) and Cyric after that broke the blade.

Also another question I know that Bhaal used to have a Lady of pain and a Lady of poison to assist him. However, how can that be as there is already a god of poisons. I can't remember her name, but that one is involved in Mazzy's first personal quest.

[Celestine]

From what I know, its Mask that was trapped in the sword named Godsbane, not Kelemvor. Kelemvor was a mortal when Cyric attain Godhood. Cyric (the mortal) killed Kelemvor (the mortal) before he attain Godhood. It was after that Kelemvor got the Death portfolio from Cyric that he was made a god.

Not sure about the 2 ladies assisting Bhaal. I'm guessing Talona and Loviata (sp?)

Edited by Celestine, 08 March 2005 - 12:22 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Okay, but how did Kelemvor take that portfolio of Cyric, if he was dead? I mean mortals doen't rise from there ashes.

[Bane]

He wasn't properly dead per say, Godsbane -was- Mask and he kept Kelemvor's soul, hiding it from Cyric. There was so much rumour and heresay about Kelemvor in the land of the dead that everyone thought Kelemvor was some powerful hero that could beat Cyric. Eventually Kelemvor along with the uprising of the citizens of the dead drove Cyric out of the plane.

well its along those lines

[Deathsangel]

And because of these worshippers of dead he became a god, more or less. Thanks, Felstorm that made it clear.

[edit] Sorry, just one more thing. Why did mask hide Kelemvor? What was his motive? Or is that some god-thing we mortals don't understand?

Edited by Deathsangel, 08 March 2005 - 05:22 AM.

[Andyr]

Night: Ok.

To clear up the confusion of Mask/Kelemvor/Godsbane, here is a summary of the relevant events.

- Midnight, Adon, Cyric and Kelemvor are mortal adventurers.
- Time of Troubles starts. Deities take avatar forms. Mask chooses to be a sword, Gosdbane.
- Cyric finds the sword Godsbane. He kills Kelemvor with it. Unknown to him, Kelemvor is trapped inside by Mask's will.
- Time of troubles ends. Cyric becomes a deity. Midnight becomes Mystra.
- Cyric breaks Godsbane. This weakens Mask and frees Kelemvor (still mortal, but dead, and since Cyric is the god of Death Kelemvor's spirit is in his realm).
- Cyric loses the portfolio of Death and Kelemvor becomes a god.

[NiGHTMARE]

Does anyone have some more detailed information about the god Mask? He appears to be the god of thiefs in BG2 and I know he lost control about intrigues during this incident with Cyric. Are there more aspects of life he's watching over?

Mask is the god of thieves, thievery and shadows. As you say, he also used to be the god of intrigue, and one of his main goals is to retrieve this aspect of his portfolio, and probably steal some new ones while he's at it.

Cyric is is most hated enemy and the churches of the two gods come into conflict whenever they meet. Their oppossing beliefs and objectives also mean Mask counts Helm, Torm, Tyr and Waukeen amongst his enemies, and he frequently comes into conflict with Selune, Oghma and Deneir as well. He once counted Bane, Bhaal, Leira and Ibrandul as his allies, but these four gods are now all dead (after Bane's rebirth, Bane seems unwilling to re-establish the old alliance, despite Mask's apparent interest in doing so, and the fact Cyric is the main enemy of them both).

His lay worshippers include assassins, beggars, criminals, rogues, shades, and shadowdancers. Sometimes courtiers and diplomats will evoke his name before negotiations, in hopes of ensuring all goes well. Most thieves guilds pay lip service to Mask, though Cyric is growing ever more popular. If a guild has worshippers of both Cyric and Mask, that guild had better try to keep these members apart (incidentally, the Shadow Thieves have many priests of Cyric and Mask, not to mention Shar, Umberlee and almost any other evil god you care to mention).

And what about his priests? From the description of a Mask-Priest in IWD2 I know they tend to hang around in thief-guilds, but does he also have bigger temples?

Those few countries and city-states where thievery is not actively discouraged by the government are where Mask's largest and most well-known temples can be found. The largest temple of Mask can be found in Telflamm, and consists of 300 priests. Other prominent temples exist in Westgate, Skuld and Calimport.

Many smaller temples exist in more lawful areas, hidden either behind a legitimate front, or underground. Those thieves guilds which still pay homage to Mask will have at least a small shrine to Mask, and larger guildhalls are often connected to temples of Mask via hidden underground passages. In cities with rival thieves guilds, temples of Mask are open to all sides, and are recognized as neutral ground.

The church of Mask is the second wealthiest in all the Realms (the first being the church of Waukeen), despite the fact it offers one of the highest amounts of independence for individual temples. This isn't due to competition or lack of trust, but to prevent hostilities towards one guild or temple from spreading to the others.

Recently, the church has begun to move its shrines even further underground, to ancient cellars and long abandoned sections of sewers. Presumably this is mostly due to their ongoing conflict with the church of Cyric, which considerably outnumbers the church of Mask, making stealth and subtlety greately prefferable to open conflict (and of course, such things are the nature of the god and his chuch anyway)..

Does his priesthood follow any special commandmends?

The church of Mask's dogma: "Wealth rightfully belongs to those who can acquire it. Strive to end each day with more material wealth than you began it with, but steal what is most vital, not everything that is to hand. Honesty is for fools, but apparent honesty is a very valuable thing. Make every untruth seem plausible, and never lie when you can cleave to the truth but leave a mistaken impression - a bridge burned means much rebuilding if you need to cross over there again. Subtlety is everything. A bribe is the least subtle of the tools Mask gives to us. Never force someone to do something when you can manipulate them into doing it and thinking the deicision and the deed are entirely their own freewilled work. Never do the obvious, except to conceal a secondary or tertiary deed or arrangement. Spin secrets atop secrets, but do so unconcernedly, not with the sly excitement of untutored youth. Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes for easy targets."

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 08 March 2005 - 02:40 PM.

[NiGHTMARE]

I know that Bhaal used to have a Lady of pain and a Lady of poison to assist him. However, how can that be as there is already a god of poisons. I can't remember her name, but that one is involved in Mazzy's first personal quest.

The goddess of poison who served Bhaal and the goddess involved in Mazzy's quest are one and the same: Talona. The goddess of pain you mentioned is Loviatar.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 08 March 2005 - 02:46 PM.

[Adder]

Hehe, now I know why I always liked Mask. I never expected his church to be so widespread. Thank you for this information.

By the way, about Talona and Loviatar, how came they to serve Bhaal? Did he 'inherit' them when he ascended?

[fallen_demon]

Lady of pain of course refears to a very different figure.

[Deathsangel]

Lady of pain of course refears to a very different figure.

Yep that is the ruler of Sigil. My plane lore is much greater then my AD&D god lore