5 replies to this topic

[Meira]

I know that a paladin or a ranger can fall due an evil act, but how can he or she regain the lost title? Is an epic, holy quest in order or will piety and praying do the trick?

Is there examples in AD&D novels of a paladin or ranger losing and then regaining paladin/rangerhood? What do the rules say?

[Andyr]

In 3E, a character who falls out of step with their faith (e.g. fallen Paladin) can regain their status if they have a spell of Atonementt on them, and complete a difficult quest set by their deity to prove their devotion.

I assume it was vaguely similar in AD&D.

[NiGHTMARE]

IIRC it's almost the same in 2E, except the Atonement spell must be cast by a high level priest of their church.

[Meira]

IIRC it's almost the same in 2E, except the Atonement spell must be cast by a high level priest of their church.

How high level we are taking about here? A level that only a one or two members of the whole church are likely to be or will head priest of the temple in a medium/large city do?

In case anyone else besides me wonders about the Atonement spell, here's the description from d20srd.org

Atonement
Abjuration
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5
Components: V, S, M, F, DF, XP
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Target: Living creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell removes the burden of evil acts or misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds. If the atoning creature committed the evil act unwittingly or under some form of compulsion, atonement operates normally at no cost to you. However, in the case of a creature atoning for deliberate misdeeds and acts of a knowing and willful nature, you must intercede with your deity (requiring you to expend 500 XP) in order to expunge the subject?s burden. Many casters first assign a subject of this sort a quest (see geas/quest) or similar penance to determine whether the creature is truly contrite before casting the atonement spell on its behalf.

Atonement may be cast for one of several purposes, depending on the version selected.

Reverse Magical Alignment Change

If a creature has had its alignment magically changed, atonement returns its alignment to its original status at no cost in experience points.
Restore Class

A paladin who has lost her class features due to committing an evil act may have her paladinhood restored to her by this spell.

Restore Cleric or Druid Spell Powers

A cleric or druid who has lost the ability to cast spells by incurring the anger of his or her deity may regain that ability by seeking atonement from another cleric of the same deity or another druid. If the transgression was intentional, the casting cleric loses 500 XP for his intercession. If the transgression was unintentional, he does not lose XP.

Redemption or Temptation

You may cast this spell upon a creature of an opposing alignment in order to offer it a chance to change its alignment to match yours. The prospective subject must be present for the entire casting process. Upon completion of the spell, the subject freely chooses whether it retains its original alignment or acquiesces to your offer and changes to your alignment. No duress, compulsion, or magical influence can force the subject to take advantage of the opportunity offered if it is unwilling to abandon its old alignment. This use of the spell does not work on outsiders or any creature incapable of changing its alignment naturally.

Though the spell description refers to evil acts, atonement can also be used on any creature that has performed acts against its alignment, whether those acts are evil, good, chaotic, or lawful.

Note: Normally, changing alignment is up to the player. This use of atonement simply offers a believable way for a character to change his or her alignment drastically, suddenly, and definitively.

Material Component

Burning incense.
Focus

In addition to your holy symbol or normal divine focus, you need a set of prayer beads (or other prayer device, such as a prayer wheel or prayer book) worth at least 500 gp.
XP Cost

When cast for the benefit of a creature whose guilt was the result of deliberate acts, the cost to you is 500 XP per casting (see above).

Edited by Meira, 13 July 2005 - 06:00 AM.

[NiGHTMARE]

According the Complete Paladin's Handbook, the priest must be at least 9th level. He can chose to send the paladin on a suitable quest as well as - or instead of - simply casting Atonement.

It should be noted that the above are only for lesser violations of the paladin's ethos, such as offending, disappointing, or misleading non-evil characters. More serious violations, such as running away from battle, not tending to a non-evil dying person, or allowing a person under his protection to be killed, require the paladin to do far more, e.g. completing a truly epic quest.

If a paladin willingly commits an extreme violation, such as murdering a good aligned person, betraying his order, blaspheming his god, or regularly acting with extreme cowardice, he can never atone for his action(s). If he is magically influenced into committing such a deed then a paladin normally can atone for it, but it will be an extremely long and demanding process.

[Bluenose]

IIRC it's almost the same in 2E, except the Atonement spell must be cast by a high level priest of their church.

How high level we are taking about here? A level that only a one or two members of the whole church are likely to be or will head priest of the temple in a medium/large city do

I think the only answer can be "it depends". You need a 9th or higher level cleric, who has nothing more important to do with their spells - which if we are talking about a paladin's atonement might well be the case. Now in the FR that level cleric isn't too uncommon, and you should be able to find one in most medium cities - if I remember correctly the priest in Beregost in BG1 is a 13th level Cleric in PnP, and Beregost isn't even that large a place.

However, not all deities have sizeable followings in all cities, which means that generally they won't have large temples with high level clerics. Also, some deities are less "important" than others, and have fewer clerics. It depends which deity your paladin worshipped, but he'd probably have the easiest time finding a cleric of Lathander, Sune or Tyr among common paladin gods. And I doubt that a cleric of a different deity, even if they are closely allied as Torm and Ilmater are with Tyr, would be able to help in this case.

And I believe that if a paladin willingly commits an evil act, even atonement doesn't necessarily work for them. Chaotic acts apparently aren't so bad.