11 replies to this topic

[Hoarmurath]

As I played BG2 for the ten billionth time, I began to wonder...that evil parties do not have very many options for healers, unless you want to pick up Viconia or maybe Jaheira or make your own PC a cleric. So, this little idea was born.

I have some ideas, for example, romance (for both genders, like Solaufein, but making the tracks different) and extensive friendship talks even if the PC decides not to romance him. Good and neutral PCs could be even able to redeem him (this should be realistic and difficult of course).

Of course, all of this lives as a very shady cloud in my little head, because I am scared of thinking up more (and then discovering that there is something like this being developed already or that everybody hates the idea.)

(I hope I did not go against any board rules.)

Edited by Hoarmurath, 11 February 2008 - 06:53 AM.

[berelinde]

I'd say that your post is a fine example of what this board is about: talking about NPC ideas. You've got an idea, and you want to talk about it.

As it happens, so do I. Because I haven't seen anybody putting forward the idea of an evil male cleric, and I think the game needs one, desperately.

As much as I love everything you set forth in your post, I can tell you from personal experience that writing a complex NPC, that is one with multiple romance paths, a friendship track, and a possible redemption, is a huge undertaking. It might well overwhelm you, if you do not decide on a plan fairly quickly.

If I may offer some unsolicited advice, refine your idea, condense it to a single concept, even, and then make that concept happen. Perhaps you might want to develop the cleric as an NPC without a romance first, and focus on that. Write the banters, the friendship talks, the interjections, coding and testing as you go. Once that's done, and it's playable, there's loads of time to add one or more romance tracks, and even that redemption path.

My background: I wrote a neutral good male cleric for Tutu/BGT, one who offers both friendship and romance. The mod is a prime example of how *not* to go about writing an NPC. He's coded with unnecessary complexity, mostly because I didn't know any better, and I waited until the whole thing was written and coded before testing the mod, so it took *six* versions to work out the bugs. That's unacceptable. If I had tested as I went, I could have had a bug-free version 1. Of course, if I did that, I'd probably be announcing his release now, not over a year ago. This NPC is currently in development for BG2, by the way, but I do not see this as a duplication of effort, or as competition. I'm writing Gavin for BG2 because I want to write Gavin for BG2, and I wouldn't mind if there were five other clerics in development.

Clerics rock.

But I want to know more about yours! Why don't you tell us about him?

[Solar's Harper]

Evil male cleric eh? Sounds great, I'd strongly advise not allowing a too powerful character though, per say overpowered physically and mentally.

Definetely test it as you go, and coding as you write is a good technique to pick up as well, but whatever floats your boat best works.

Of course, all of this lives as a very shady cloud in my little head, because I am scared of thinking up more (and then discovering that there is something like this being developed already or that everybody hates the idea.)

Nah, ideas are great and when they reach fruition even better.
Don't be afraid of sharing your ideas, they all contribute to the flavour of the community after all, and there may even be people willing to help you out in one way or another with the idea.

[Hoarmurath]

Berelinde: Wow, I never expected such a reply.

I do understand that it's a really big thing to do, and my first aim was just to get all the ideas down before they flew out of my head. Will have to make a plan, yes. Your approach sounds really sensible. So, I am gonna catch the guy and get something more out of him besides "Hi, I am male, evil and a cleric".

Solar's Harper: Overpowered? No way. Of course, I want him to be useful, but not godlike. Thanks for the warm welcome. I always tend to be a little nervous when I post somewhere thanks to getting chucked out of one place for sharing my opinions.

Generally, on my part, I can't draw to save my life (meaning that the portrait will have to be done by someone else), can't voice-act (wrong gender, lol), but I can write (I like writing) and learn coding (if it is not terribly hard). I will have to think on it a little more.

[Solar's Harper]

Tricky at first then it gets easier, try looking at the coding of other mods and see how it's done there. Using the tutorials also makes life easier.

One step at a time I suppose would be the best course though.

Anyway, welcome to SHS Hoarmurath, hope you enjoy your time here.

[Tempest]

Indeed-welcome to the loony bin. More evil npc's are always welcome.

[Kellen]

Clerics have been one of my favorite classes, mostly because I've always been interested in how religion affects a person.

That said, there are a number of evil deities who present a wealth of interesting development options in the FR. And the nature of the Bhaalspawn provides a natural magnet for those of evil or chaotic bent, and for those who desire power. On the other hand it also attracts those who wish to prevent all the troubles possible.

That all said, this idea shows some promise. Obviously I can't say too much more, with the information given, but know that I will be continuing to check into this thread.

[Alatariel]

I am definitely interested. The game *is* lacking an evil male cleric, and imho he would be a great material for a romance. I, in addition to what berelinde said, propose for you to create a team to keep you motivated AND make the work easier. From my own experience I can say that it makes all the difference, doing something completely alone, from a scratch and with no experience in modding or working with a bunch of supportive, creative people.

Anyway, good luck. I would like to see this completed; I have seen far too many promising NPC mods being abandoned.

[Kulyok]

It's probably a moot point by now, but Tiax is still available.

Also... let me see... no, nothing. Sixty-six NPCs and only one evil priest(and multiclass thief/cleric available only in Chapter 4 or ToB, at that).

So another evil cleric(apart from Viconia) may be an interesting addition, though ultimately it's about a personality, not class.

[berelinde]

I am definitely interested. The game *is* lacking an evil male cleric, and imho he would be a great material for a romance. I, in addition to what berelinde said, propose for you to create a team to keep you motivated AND make the work easier. From my own experience I can say that it makes all the difference, doing something completely alone, from a scratch and with no experience in modding or working with a bunch of supportive, creative people.

Anyway, good luck. I would like to see this completed; I have seen far too many promising NPC mods being abandoned.

I've had good experiences and bad experiences working on a team.

Cmorgan and I often work together on projects, and it has been mutually rewarding. Our writing styles are very different, so sometimes there is a challenge maintaining a consistent "voice", but our creative processes are complementary, rather than competitive. He thinks about things one way, I think about them from a different angle, and integration of the two perspectives has worked out well for us. You'll notice that both of us have equal creative input here. Sure, there have been times that I've written something and he's coded it, and vice versa, but in general, the creative aspect is shared. Mind you, there have only been a small handful of projects that have actually been released, but there are more in development.

On the other hand, I've been involved in projects where all I've done is code. I did it because I believed in the projects, so I don't regret it, but it hasn't been quite as rewarding.

I've also seen team projects where progress has been slowed by a long editing and revision process. I'm sure that team members feel that the end result justifies the time spent editing, but I'd be lying if I said that I thought that the final product was always better than the starting material.

And that's where you, Hoarmurath, need to decide how you feel about working on a team. If you don't mind surrendering something you wrote and letting others work it over, then it might work out well for you. If you prefer that what you write be left as you wrote it, then you might prefer sole authorship.

For now, just start writing, and learning to code. You can think about whether you want to bring others in on the project after you've got your idea refined a bit more.

[Alatariel]

You are of course right berelinde, there is no such a thing as a perfect situation (though I guess you may say that you and Cmorgan can represent the exception which proves the rule;>) but in most cases it has more + than -. In most cases while talking of the beginners, that is.

And that's where you, Hoarmurath, need to decide how you feel about working on a team. If you don't mind surrendering something you wrote and letting others work it over, then it might work out well for you. If you prefer that what you write be left as you wrote it, then you might prefer sole authorship.

Hm... if a project has a leading author than it is quite obvious that his word will make all the difference, and without his permission nothing will be edited. However, other people may add even more content, having brilliant ideas themselves, or the team may engage in fruitful discussions full of constructive criticism. Theoretically, that is.

For now, just start writing, and learning to code. You can think about whether you want to bring others in on the project after you've got your idea refined a bit more.

So true. Though, you could use help of beta readers as you go if you decide to do this. They can point out many awkward things you wouldn't notice yourself, plus toss and idea or two if you get a writer's block.

Only a suggestion, of course. Some people, me included, all in all prefer to work solo. The reason I chose to not do so in the moment is that I am still too green in many aspects AND need people constantly urging me to keep my motivation high enough to actually finish something on time. I am horrible with deadlines.

Edited by Alatariel, 12 February 2008 - 09:41 AM.

[Hoarmurath]

The he is actually a she.

As for a team effort...I will have to think.

*is actually quite overwhelmed by the amount of positive replies*

I'll try to have some thoughts and replies up in the next several days after I am not so dead anymore.