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Realistic armor system rewriting in BG


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#1 Irbis

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:37 AM

We all know what are AD&D pros and cons, aside from versions. in most of IE games such as Baldurs Gate saga, or Icewind Dale or even Planescape: Torment (lol i just enlisted all of them :D ) 2nd version of AD&D is being used, which - aside from being quite complex and user unfriendly (remember your first contact with IE game? like "wth? i wear better armor but my AC gets lowered??" or "something isnt right here, 1lvl mage with so "high" 20 Trak0???"), unrealistic and unlogical (which part has been fixed and rewrited in 3rd AD&D edition). But lets have a closer look shall we?

TraK0 - well nothing really can be done here, everything hardcoded

Stats (str,dex,con ect) - well all stats rolled and set in stone at the very begining. and any way to buff/nerf them have unnatural sources. here a 1lvl warrior can have the very same STR as 50lvl one even if the secund bashed like billions of enemies. but oh well, "dynamic progress" in terms of games like BG can be achived only via scripting, and whole pack of them to be more accurate. ofcourse - it can be done, yes, why not. ive seen "mana mod" and "dynamic progrees in weapon profiecience (sorry, i dont have a bloody idea whats this word correct writing lol) mod" so i gues it can be done but then again - in sake of balance all parts of the games which make the player gain stats would need to be deleted - or rewrited. and to be honest it would be hard to specify thje way of improving stats. STR would be simple - hell load of swining and slashing with a weapon. but imagine a "progress factor" for charisma? i cant. or dextirity, or int. it is a rather interesting idea but i have no clue how to implement it so ill pass on this.

ArmorClass - now we're talking. imagine - in real - that you put a plate armor on yourself. in real a person protected with full plate armor can be only hurt if by luck or oponent skills - the blade would somehow breach it, or hit inbetwen the gaps, bashing/crushing weapons such as hammers and mauls dont have this issue ofcourse as their pros is the mass of them. all in one - in reality, and in any RPG system armors absorb the power of hit, or makes it so you take less dmg thx to them. and what we have in IE? they make you harder to hit. now thats logic huh? a guy with 40kg heavy plate armor douge hits like in matrix when a thief in light and swift lether is being hit like practice doll. so whats my idea after? read belove:

A total change of every and all armors and giving them a DMG resistance. so a plate armor which is heavy but hard would have the WORTS AC rating BUT its dmg ressistance would be higher. technicaly:

Full Plate Armor
AC: 1 -> 7-8
BUT with additional like 60% ressistance to slashing 40% to pircing and 20% crushing

lether armor:
AC 7(?) to 1 with 0% or 5% at max resistance

above are just an examples for you to get the idea. when writing resistance for each armor you check the AC rating against each weapon type, we all know that plates are strong VS all but blunt weapon are their weak spot, we all know that mail is quite good VS all but especialy good againt piericing (if i remember correct).
anybody played Fallout1&2? remember how the armor and protection was setup there?(sidenote- the best armor system ive seen in CRPGs). there the armor not only protects you from certain amount of dmg and a % of it. like something hit us for lets say 30 dmg and my armor is capably of absorbing just 10 so i get hurted for 20dmg.
as far as i know theres no way to implement this "dmg absorbation" without scripting and a real load of it o.o and we all know what happend when tehres to much of it - the game becomes unstable and buggy.
BUT
its totaly easy to implement % resistance and rewrite AC, you just switch numbers and add resistances. the thing is... well just open up you armor list in even ShadowKepper... the list is long isnt it?
but the whole idea can be summed up in this 4 sentances:
"the lighter the armor is the better AC rating it has"
"the more heavy the armor is the worst AC rating it has"
"The lighter the armor is the worst (if any) ressistances it has)
"the more heavy the armor is the higher resistances it has"

i belive its a lot more logial and realitict then original.
just ask yourself - does the armor makes you dodge better? or does it makes you more endurable and protects you from resived damage.
if you would ask me - if armor doesnt have a special magical dodging enchants it SHOULDNT affect how hard you are to target and hit at all! - and if so - makes you just easer to be hit. so in my book the "best" armor in terms of small or non movement limitation would be lether or none, and the "best" in terms of protection would be plate - which yes makes you a more easy target BUT takes much of the damage you resive.
and if anybody is brave enough to create MOD based on this (not me, iam already working on one - sorry. maybe someday when i will have "overproduction" of free time) remember that you not only making all of this more realistic but also give the armors an actual use late in game.
because - lets face it, armor and AC in general matters only till mid-game. after that (Especialy in ToB) all the enemies have ThaK0 so high(low? O.o) that even with -20AC you are still being hit and there armor is just for show and additional bonuses (like +X to stat X, or +X ressistance against X). and i am not talking about bosses and special enemies. just go check Fire Gigant for example, i can bet that they have +/- equal or better TraK0 then Drizzit.
In BG1 and maybe IWD1 AC did matter - but BG2+mods its just a fancy circle with numbers.
God bless whoever will have the courage to try and move this "idea" into "reality".

BTW: and i really cant understand why nobody every had this idea before, and if someone had - why in the name of Bhaal - in last 10 years, no one used it?

Oh and happy christmas =^.^=
Irbis

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#2 GeN1e

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 09:51 AM

I bet you haven't seen the Refinements mod yet (here on SHS).

I however do not completely agree with the "armor doesn't let you dodge better" statement. What it really does is "make you harder to be successfully hit for damage". Deflection, in other words. Given DnD was designed for PnP play, it's no surprise they came up with the simplistic yet rational solution.

My own heavy armor absorbs rather than deflects, but that's mostly due to sci-fi weaponry.
In a fantasy world it's deflection that comes in play.

Edited by GeN1e, 18 December 2008 - 09:52 AM.

Retired from modding.


#3 Irbis

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:11 AM

I bet you haven't seen the Refinements mod yet (here on SHS).

seen and played (i had this armor remix idea from nearly the begining of my advanature with IE games so i obviously was very hiped about Refinements mod). but it fullifies my expectation just partial. this job can be done only in 100% or nothing. giving a ressistances bonus when still leaving AC as it was erm.. nah. if you wanna buff something - you need to nerf something else. for sake of balance.
(a good example is in PnP ingredience for spells. other way everybody and their mom would be a wizard throwing a fireballs at each other lol)

Edited by Irbis, 18 December 2008 - 10:14 AM.

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#4 -erik-

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:18 AM

seen and played (i had this armor remix idea from nearly the begining of my advanature with IE games so i obviously was very hiped about Refinements mod). but it fullifies my expectation just partial. this job can be done only in 100% or nothing. giving a ressistances bonus when still leaving AC as it was erm.. nah. if you wanna buff something - you need to nerf something else. for sake of balance.


Take a look at Full Plate & Packing Steel (in beta, v1 imminent)

-erik

#5 Irbis

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:52 AM

seen and played (i had this armor remix idea from nearly the begining of my advanature with IE games so i obviously was very hiped about Refinements mod). but it fullifies my expectation just partial. this job can be done only in 100% or nothing. giving a ressistances bonus when still leaving AC as it was erm.. nah. if you wanna buff something - you need to nerf something else. for sake of balance.


Take a look at Full Plate & Packing Steel (in beta, v1 imminent)

-erik


SWEET JESUS!!!! O______O
:o :Tasty: :clap:


(if only the rest of my dreams would come true so efficiant ^^ )

FTW Erik!!!! =o you just gain yourself a fan =D

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#6 Icendoan

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:45 PM

Hey, I am just pretty busy right now! :P

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#7 Irbis

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 02:33 PM

Hey, I am just pretty busy right now! :P

Icen


good - and keep it that way >:3 i really want to see people playing CE before summer =^.^=""

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#8 Icendoan

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 03:08 PM

Oooh, that COULD happen, actually. But I am pretty tied up over christmas...

And I meant "Pretty busy NOT doing CE! :P"

If I get scripts and bugfixes done for KY, fully finished, I will immediately get to CE. :D (Nice change of pace you see, very little .D coding...)

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#9 Thanatos.

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 12:18 AM

Stats (str,dex,con ect) - well all stats rolled and set in stone at the very begining. and any way to buff/nerf them have unnatural sources. here a 1lvl warrior can have the very same STR as 50lvl one even if the secund bashed like billions of enemies. but oh well, "dynamic progress" in terms of games like BG can be achived only via scripting, and whole pack of them to be more accurate. ofcourse - it can be done, yes, why not. ive seen "mana mod" and "dynamic progrees in weapon profiecience (sorry, i dont have a bloody idea whats this word correct writing lol) mod" so i gues it can be done but then again - in sake of balance all parts of the games which make the player gain stats would need to be deleted - or rewrited. and to be honest it would be hard to specify thje way of improving stats. STR would be simple - hell load of swining and slashing with a weapon. but imagine a "progress factor" for charisma? i cant. or dextirity, or int. it is a rather interesting idea but i have no clue how to implement it so ill pass on this.


Str: Bashing and Killing.
Dex: Using Thieving Skills, Successfully dodging enemy attacks.
Con: Taking Damage.
Int: Reading books. (Finally, a use for those damn things! ^^)
Wis: Identifing Items, whether at a church or a party bard.
Cha: Talking to People. Completing romances should give tasty bonuses too.