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[Archmage Silver]

Mass Effect 3 & Beyond
The Doctor (Muzyka, not Mordin) talks as BioWare tell us about the future of Mass Effect.
by Andrew Smee, IGN UK

UK, February 7, 2010 - With the worldwide release of Mass Effect still ringing in the air, we sat down with Ray Muzyka of BioWare to pick his brain about the successful sci-fi franchise.

IGN: Mass Effect 2 has been exceptionally well received, and even though it's only January, we've been hearing that it's already a contender for game of the year. What's that like for you to hear?

Ray Muzyka: Well, it's very gratifying. The team worked really hard to make a great game, and it's really satisfying for them to read the reviews and see the critical acclaim that's there, and on the commercial side we can see now that the game has been selling really well, and preorders have been exceptionally high - it's been exceeding our forecasts. You know, it's great to see that.

At our studio, one of our core values is humility. We tend to look at things in a very practical way. We're always looking at the future, how to make each game better than the last. The team's already working on the next installment, and we're working on how to make the next one bigger and better. It's just how we operate. We've had a lot of critical and commercial successes over the years; this is certainly one of the best. It's the best thing we've done to date. I thought when Dragon Age came out, that was the best thing we had done to date, and I want our next project to be the best thing we've done to date.

IGN: Where do you think is left to go in the Mass Effect series?

Ray Muzyka: We've always had a trilogy in mind for the first three games in the Mass Effect franchise. And it is a franchise; it's not going to necessarily stop at number three. We've always had in mind a story arc for this trilogy, the epic sweeping story of going across the universe as Commander Shepherd. Within that context, figuring out the details and the features and how the gameplay unfolds, that's more mutable depending on the feedback we get. So we've always said that the first products will be a trilogy. Beyond that, we'll figure out where it goes.

IGN: There's a renewed focus on the shooter aspect for Mass Effect 2. Was there a concern that it would put off BioWare's more traditional RPG fanbase?

Ray Muzyka: The RPG features are still there. A lot of the reviews I've read are very interesting and accurate, because at first glance the RPG features are not as strong, but keep playing and you can see that they're there in a different fashion. For example, you can grab weapons off the rack when you send your team off on away missions, and you progress your ship, which is almost a character ? that you're adding research modifications to increase your chance of surviving the final battle. That's a progression mechanic in its own right, and it's pretty satisfying and deep.

And there's lots of new tactics and abilities, all embedded in the squad command wheel now. It's not an inventory management system now as much as your commander's quarters ? you can change your armour, appearance. And then ammo and other things like that, you break down on your squad command wheel, so it's done tactically in the heat of battle, so you can change from incendiary to freezing to disruptor ammo and so on.

And always throughout that, the other important elements are the emotional engagement, which is to make it feel very human, real and credible. We want to reach a wide audience, because I think everybody wants to be entertained on an emotional level. It's satisfying.

So the depth of the experience is still there, but it's manifested differently. Which is think makes an approachable game for the wide audience, and yet still satisfying to the core fans. But there are core shooter fans as well as core RPG fans, and I think a lot of them enjoy a progression mechanic and a system where you can improve your character as well, so maybe this is broadening the types of games they're interested in playing, and maybe in the future you'll find this kind of progression more widespread.

IGN: Did the action focus of Mass Effect 2 make you want to return to developing that style of gameplay, such as?MDK 3?

Ray Muzyka: You'll have to ask Interplay, they have the license for that. MDK 2 was a fun project to work on. We learned a lot from that. In fact, a lot of the people who worked on Mass Effect 2 worked on MDK 2. Casey [Hudson], the executive producer, was an artist on MDK as well, when he started at BioWare.

IGN: And while we're here, what about Baldur's Gate? We saw Boo at the Citadel souvenir shop?

Ray Muzyka: Hey, that's just a space hamster. Boo's brother. And again, you'll have to talk to Atari about that, they've got the license.

IGN: Have these past experiences of not owning the properties driven BioWare's aim to create original properties?

Ray Muzyka: Somewhat. You look at DA as an example. It's a fresh take on fantasy that hasn't really been done. It's not the same as a high fantasy game; it's a dark heroic fantasy, so it's a little bit different. And it's also a rule system that's designed first and foremost as a computer game/RPG system rather than a pen and paper system that's translated to videogames. Both those things were factors for us as well; we wanted to build a dark heroic fantasy and we also wanted to build a new rule system from the ground up that was to be adapted first and foremost as a videogame, or CRPG system.

IGN: For original properties like Mass Effect, how much time do you spend on universe building? How big is the Mass Effect Production Bible?

Ray Muzyka: It's quite large. When we launched KOTOR back in 2003, we started on Mass Effect 1 back then. We probably spent 6-12 months with a team of designers, artists and so on doing concepting, world building, design and character iteration, timelines, and the history of the universe. That's the IP bible that's used to drive all of our games in the ME franchise. So there's a certain amount which surfaces above the water, that the player can see, and the rest is the rest of the iceberg that's down there, giving it weight and gravity, credibility and depth. But it's all available for future extensions, ancillary products, things like that.

IGN: How much do you view games as a forum for discussion? For instance, there was the side-quest focusing on abortion in Mass Effect 1, and practically the whole point of Dragon Age was about the meeting of culture, racism, concepts like that.

Ray Muzyka: I don't think we approach it so much as a forum for it, as?well, the reality is that these are issues that are out there in the world. There are opportunities to create morally challenging moments in the narrative where you make choices that have consequences, moments that feel real and credible. We look to these areas to help us drive our quest building. I don't think we're trying to generate controversy as much as just reflect that this is a real world with similar issues to what you face in real life, so it's familiar and accessible at the same time. It's challenging and interesting on a moral level. We're not trying to make a statement per se, and if we do inadvertently, maybe that's a reflection as games as art as much as anything.

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

IGN: What's your standpoint on morality systems in games, and what do you think the next evolution of morality will be? Dragon Age's lack of, or Mass Effect's defined numbers?

Ray Muzyka: Dragon Age's system was more on an individual companion basis, where they all judged you on their own moral spectrum. We're all different from one another, so some would like you and some others wouldn't depending on what you did. You remember, if you had different characters with you, someone would comment on your decisions and their 'like/dislike' meter would go up or down accordingly. Just like real life ? if you do something that I dislike, my mental view of you will change depending on what I see you do.

We're always trying to innovate in that. Mass Effect 2's system is different from Mass Effect 1's where it was much more polar ? 'plus minus'. ME2 is actually 'plus plus' ? you can be Paragon and Renegade at the same time, just as you can in real life. Dragon Age has a different system where it's more the companions looking at you in a different way. We like trying different systems in the way we look at the moral choices and the good/evil world view. I guess we used to be a little more simplistic back in the days of Baldur's Gate, and maybe that was more consistent with the D&D license. Mass Effect has a different system, Mass Effect 2 is a refined version of that system and Dragon Age has a totally different system to anything we've done before. I think they're all interesting in different ways.

IGN: We've all seen the clips of Mordin singing the Gilbert and Sullivan routine, and the Game Seller at the Citadel. How important is humour to the experience of the game?

Ray Muzyka: Humour is hard to do well. We don't make comedy games, we make games which have humour in them. It's part of the pacing, we try and have a story that has different moments to it. Emotional pacing, the story arc of the game ? it's nice to have humour in there to spice things up, change the pace and the emotional intensity.

IGN: BioWare supported Neverwinter Nights for 6 years after its release. What plans do you have for your current generation of games?

Ray Muzyka: We like to support our games long-term. Our fans are really important to us, and we try and support them. We have long-term plans for both Dragon Age and Mass Effect. Actually, we have a separate team running in parallel as part of the franchise team. You know, people are moving back and forth, but we've made a dedicated investment in DLC for Dragon Age and Mass Effect, so we're going to support them for a long time. Stand alone products, expansion packs, things like that as well.

IGN: And what about the future of BioWare?

Ray Muzyka: I think we want to continue to advance the state of the art and the industry, and I think our best work is still ahead of us. It makes it fun ? you're always trying to innovate and push the envelope with everything you do. We don't want to be static. I think we can still do better. As great as Mas Effect 2 is, I think we can still improve, and we'll get the feedback from the fans and the press and the reviews, and as great as they are, there's still things we can improve on. We haven't collated all that and figured out what it might be, but once we do that and understand better the reception of the press and the fans, we'll take that to heart.

[Qwinn]

there was the side-quest focusing on abortion in Mass Effect 1,

Er, what? Does not exist.

Unless they're talking about the genophage. That would actually be a fair context in which to bring it up, since the genophage doesn't prevent conception but rather causes (billions of) stillbirths. But I don't think that's what they're talking about.

Only thing I can think of is the miniquest in the Citadel with the couple arguing about whether to get in vitro gene therapy for her baby. That's "focusing on abortion"? Dear Lord.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 February 2010 - 03:21 PM.

[ghostdog]

The RPG features are still there. A lot of the reviews I've read are very interesting and accurate, because at first glance the RPG features are not as strong, but keep playing and you can see that they're there in a different fashion. For example, you can grab weapons off the rack when you send your team off on away missions, and you progress your ship, which is almost a character ? that you're adding research modifications to increase your chance of surviving the final battle. That's a progression mechanic in its own right, and it's pretty satisfying and deep.

[Qwinn]

I definitely think it counts as a full fledged RPG. It has more legitimate dialogue choices and more varied consequences than any other RPG I've ever played, and that to me is the heart of an RPG. I know some people deride it because of the "dumbed down" character progression... but c'mon, you could make ME2's character system 2/3's dumber and it would still have more interesting choices at levelup than 1st or 2nd edition D&D (oh, oh, I went up 5 levels, I can choose another weapon proficiency, woohoo!) If a complex character development system is what defines an RPG, then the BG's, PS:T, all the goldbox games, etc., weren't RPG's.

(Actually, ironically, PS:T was probably the most interesting in terms of character development due to TNO's unique ability to add a point every level... in other words, it got interesting by virtue of throwing away the rulebook it's based on.)

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 February 2010 - 05:45 PM.

[ghostdog]

I liked ME1. I haven't played ME2 enough yet, but ME1 was more of a cinematic shooter/adventure with RPG elements and ME2 seems less skill-based than its predecessor. Maybe ME2 has enough choices and consequences to make it more of an RPG, but what Muzyka is saying here is complete fail. He's saying that because you can choose a weapon from the armory and you can improve your ship with upgrades, the game is an RPG. I know he's trying to make everyone happy, but that was a silly remark.

Of course its always a matter of definitions. Deus Ex is my favorite game and some consider it an RPG but to my eyes it's a Shooter/adventure with some RPG elements. PST has A LOT of skill-checks in dialog and of course a ton of skill-checks in combat, all based on the way you've built your character. ME relies more on player skill.

[Qwinn]

Mmm, yeah, can't argue, that *was* a pretty silly comment. Upgrading ship != RPG element. If it were, the Master of Orion games would qualify. Ditto choosing weapons.

Never played Deus Ex, but have heard a lot of good things, will have to pick it up someday.

Personally, I think ME2 is a -vast- improvement on ME1, in several different ways. More and much more interesting companions, much better storyline and writing, no more cut & pasted area designs in the side quests, and on and on. I'd say the permutations for character builds are maybe a -bit- weaker in ME2, but not so much that it should really ruin the game for anybody.

I also suspect there's a fair bit of game content we haven't even seen yet, and won't until they release the hovertank DLC. I'm betting that that's going to be the vehicle (pun intended) by which players can acquire the additional cash necessary to purchase all upgrades, cause right now, you can't buy them all.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 February 2010 - 07:37 PM.

[Crazee]

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

This angers me. No explanation would be better than such a crudely-crafted lie. Homosexual romances should by no means be expected, but at least say it's because the demand for it would be relatively small. Grr!

Edited by Crazee, 10 February 2010 - 08:47 AM.

[Kaeloree]

I don't think it's a lie; I think it's a design decision, much like Mr. Muzyka pointed out. BioWare are more than willing to cater to the gay audience (as evidenced by previous games), but he's right. In Mass Effect 1 & 2, you are role-playing an existing character, much like Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher. He might be quite right in saying that it isn't in character for their idea of Shepherd. Read through Shepherd's dialogue responses throughout the games, and you'll see consistency, just like with Geralt. We aren't playing our own character, we're playing Commander Shepherd--we can just push him/her towards certain moods and levels of aggression.

I wish there were more options while playing, but I have to say, they included many more romances this time around. Who knows... maybe next time they'll change their minds. I can see Shepherd as potentially gay, and so can a lot of people. Maybe they'll take that on board.

[Crazee]

I don't think it's a lie; I think it's a design decision, much like Mr. Muzyka pointed out. BioWare are more than willing to cater to the gay audience (as evidenced by previous games), but he's right. In Mass Effect 1 & 2, you are role-playing an existing character, much like Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher. He might be quite right in saying that it isn't in character for their idea of Shepherd. Read through Shepherd's dialogue responses throughout the games, and you'll see consistency, just like with Geralt. We aren't playing our own character, we're playing Commander Shepherd--we can just push him/her towards certain moods and levels of aggression.

I wish there were more options while playing, but I have to say, they included many more romances this time around. Who knows... maybe next time they'll change their minds. I can see Shepherd as potentially gay, and so can a lot of people. Maybe they'll take that on board.

I do understand, I suppose. I just think that when you've given the player the decision to choose between a male or female Shepard, and already offered up a romance between Liara and a female Shepard, is male Shepard being gay so much of a stretch?

I'm not really angry about it, just mildly disgruntled. As always.

[Qwinn]

I don't think a femshep + Liara relationship can really count as technically gay. Asari are unisex. They appear female but they're really sorta sexless, or both sexes. As far as my understanding goes, Liara could actually get pregnant by a female Shepard.

Qwinn

[Jazhara7]

there was the side-quest focusing on abortion in Mass Effect 1,

Er, what? Does not exist.

Unless they're talking about the genophage. That would actually be a fair context in which to bring it up, since the genophage doesn't prevent conception but rather causes (billions of) stillbirths. But I don't think that's what they're talking about.

Only thing I can think of is the miniquest in the Citadel with the couple arguing about whether to get in vitro gene therapy for her baby. That's "focusing on abortion"? Dear Lord.

Qwinn

Actually, I think they're talking about the Family Matter quest, although it's not really about abortion, but gene therapy in utero - the interviewer probably mixed it up a bit, and the Mr Muzyka didn't bother to correct it, most likely. Across the river from the entrance to the Council entrance, you were able to find a woman and a man arguing about the woman's child. Apparently the father of the child (who I think was the brother of the man the woman is arguing with), died of a heart condition. The argument was about whether or not to use the gene therapy on the baby before it's born. The mother was against it, because she heard the therapy is dangerous.

In fact, you can find them talking in the medical store on Zakera Ward in Mass Effect 2, about what medicine to buy.


-

[Qwinn]

Yes, I figured the same, see the last sentence in the post you quoted

Qwinn

[Crazee]

I don't think a femshep + Liara relationship can really count as technically gay. Asari are unisex. They appear female but they're really sorta sexless, or both sexes. As far as my understanding goes, Liara could actually get pregnant by a female Shepard.

Qwinn

According to the lore, sure. But looking at it from a distance, it's quite obvious that Liara is at the very lest female-looking, and that a FemShep would obviously be aware of the fact.