3 replies to this topic

[Hoo]

Here are some suggestions for balance based on my experience playing BGT with RR.

1. Thieves
1-1. Assassin
Assassin is quite balanced, but Poison Weapon needs to be improved slightly. Basic poisoning damage should be increased. Due to his lack of ability points, he can do neither backstabbing nor setting traps in early game. It means that he highly depends on Poison Weapon at this time. My suggestion is as follows:
"Poison Weapon deals one + 5 additional point of damage per each level of the Assassin (up to a maximum of 25) to the victim."

1-2. Bounty Hunter
Paralytic Toxin is hardly able to use in combat now. Because the duration of Paralytic Toxin is very short, the ability used to waste meaninglessly in most cases of combat since most thieves have high THAC0 and low APR. I hope to increase the duration bit more (about 2round+1round/10level?)

1-3. Swashbuckler
I felt that Swashbuckler has few merit compared with Fighter/Thief. Swashbuckler's APR and HP is lower than F/T; This is perfactly drawback of Swashbuckler since his role is amost same with F/T. I know Swashbuckler has his unique advantages such as lower AC after middle of game, however, it's not enough distinguish between F/T and Swashbuckler. I think that Swashbuckler also needs some unique ability like other thieves though I don't have good idea yet.


2. Bards
Actually Bards are weaker version of Fighter/Mage until they get Lingering Song HLA now. They can memorize less spells, have higher THAC0, and have lower HP. And also, they can't wear robes until they learn Use Any Item. Finally, they can't specialize in any weapons. Even though they have some thief-like features so they can steal something for team and identify items due to their high lore, it's not so useful compared with other abilities of thieves, such as Open Locks, Find Traps, and Detect Illusions.

The only thing which is unique feature of Bards in combat is Bard's song. But this is hardly used in combat due to its restriction - Bard must keep their song to obtain the effect. For the reason, I felt that Lingering Song should be normal ability, not HLA, to characterize Bards. I suggest that Lingering Song is gained at 1st level (It means that Bard's Song will be retained during 2rounds), and this duration increases by 1round for every 20 levels.

2-1. Blade
Blade is perfactly weaker version of F/M because of their disadvantages. The unique abilities of Blade, which are Offensive Spin and Defensive Spin, can't supplement their weakness now. Offensive Spin is not able to use with Haste/Improved Haste spell simultaneously. It should be allowed. And Defensive Spin needs to grant not only AC bonus but also save bonus.

Finally, his new unique ability, Weapons Display, must be improved. It is really hard to use successfully due to its casting time. The casting time should be decreased.

2-2. Jester
Jester is good enough if Lingering Song is changed.

2-3. Skald
I think Skald is also fine if you changes Lingering Song from HLA to normal ability. Or, Skald may need to be nerfed slightly.


These are my suggestion what I felt playing BGT with RR.

Lastly, though it may stray from the topic, I hope you to add some armors (like Bardic lether) for Bards in BG1 part, which allows spell casting.

Edited by Hoo, 03 March 2011 - 03:28 PM.

[pacek]

1-3. Swashbuckler
I felt that Swashbuckler has few merit compared with Fighter/Thief. Swashbuckler's APR and HP is lower than F/T; This is perfactly drawback of Swashbuckler since his role is amost same with F/T. I know Swashbuckler has his unique advantages such as lower AC after middle of game, however, it's not enough distinguish between F/T and Swashbuckler. I think that Swashbuckler also needs some unique ability like other thieves though I don't have good idea yet.

Swashbuckler's Thac0 uses fighter's progression, but levels up faster. This effectively give him a better Thac0 than a fighter yes? And a F/T takes twice the time to level up. If anything I would say S/B is overpowered: why should a thief kit have a better Thac0 than a fighter?

Blade is perfactly weaker version of F/M because of their disadvantages. The unique abilities of Blade, which are Offensive Spin and Defensive Spin, can't supplement their weakness now. Offensive Spin is not able to use with Haste/Improved Haste spell simultaneously. It should be allowed. And Defensive Spin needs to grant not only AC bonus but also save bonus.

Finally, his new unique ability, Weapons Display, must be improved. It is really hard to use successfully due to its casting time. The casting time should be decreased.

But a Blade starts with all those 2weapon fighting style points, which bascically gives an extra attack from level 1! If anything, again I would say overpowered, especially compared to unkitted Bard. And think of weeapons display not as a spell, but an ability which by its nature needs to take time: Its like a dance with his swords. I would restrict him from all ranged weapons except for thrown ones. Maybe restrict to bladed weapons, in keeping with the title of the kit.

I can't really comment on the other kits, haven't had much experience with them.

[Hoo]

Swashbuckler's Thac0 uses fighter's progression, but levels up faster. This effectively give him a better Thac0 than a fighter yes? And a F/T takes twice the time to level up. If anything I would say S/B is overpowered: why should a thief kit have a better Thac0 than a fighter?

I partially agree with you. However, you should know that F/T will catch up with SB's THAC0 soon though SB would have better THAC0 some time. And that's a only one of two merits of SB compared with F/T, isn't it? If it is overpowered, SB really doesn't need to exist at all becuase ALL of SW's role can be done by F/T including backstabbing.

But a Blade starts with all those 2weapon fighting style points, which bascically gives an extra attack from level 1! If anything, again I would say overpowered, especially compared to unkitted Bard. And think of weeapons display not as a spell, but an ability which by its nature needs to take time: Its like a dance with his swords. I would restrict him from all ranged weapons except for thrown ones. Maybe restrict to bladed weapons, in keeping with the title of the kit.

I can't really comment on the other kits, haven't had much experience with them.

Ya, I know Blade starts with full points of 2 weapon fighting style. But as I mentioned before, just as SB's THAC0 progression, it will be kept up to F/M, and even other Bards. But his Song never catch up with other Bards', and his THAC0/APR never catch up with F/M. I mean, Blade hardly have unique characteristics what other classes/kits can't imitate.

Edited by Hoo, 03 March 2011 - 05:49 PM.

[pacek]

I partially agree with you. However, you should know that F/T will catch up with SB's THAC0 soon though SB would have better THAC0 some time. And that's a only one of two merits of SB compared with F/T, isn't it? If it is overpowered, SB really doesn't need to exist at all becuase ALL of SW's role can be done by F/T including backstabbing.

No, a swashbuckler will always be higher level than a F/T so his Thac0 will always be higher. And you can't be a Human F/T, so the Swashbuckler does have a valid role.

Ya, I know Blade starts with full points of 2 weapon fighting style. But as I mentioned before, just as SB's THAC0 progression, it will be kept up to F/M, and even other Bards. But his Song never catch up with other Bards', and his THAC0/APR never catch up with F/M. I mean, Blade hardly have unique characteristics what other classes/kits can't imitate.

Well he's got three unique abilities that no other classes or kits have. And I happen to think that pickpockets and high lore are cool things to have too. At the end of the day, its about variety. Other classes and kits might do something similar, but not exactly tha same.