Can Imoen feel attracted to males? Dialogue with Haer Dalis indicates that she can. Can Imoen feel attracted to females? Unlike the previous question, there is no outright answer.

Of course not.  Neither homosexuality, nor lesbianism is broached in any significant way in this saga.  And do not insult me by mentioning the prostitutes/courtesans as a supposed example of Bioware being all-inclusive.

Poor little Imoen.  Caught in her narrow game world.

She can be whatever we want her to be, can she not?  But what is she.

I'm not sure how valid the argument about her sexuality is.  After all, just how much of a sexual relationship would really develop?  She is a young woman who has experienced incredible trauma.  If I know Quitch, she will probably experience a bit more.

Would she actually reach out to anyone in that way?  If this mod puts her in this situation, I'd have to agree that she would be charname-sexual.  She is closer to and safer with no one else.

good ol' tgm always has an ace up his sleeve

As always Schatten.

Oy.  What is that you're doing, a victory dance?  If Lucy were male I'd swear this was a pissing contest.  (rolls eyes)

As for just erotica? Hmmm... I have one piece of a rather BDSM nature that probably won't see the light of day since I'm pretty conflicted over it, and it deals with a pair of characters who are in a novel I've been working on for a while.

A novel, you say... My how the plot just continues to thicken around you. Well that's a shame about the story; if you ever change your mind, you do know where I can be found. I wonder how well one of Domi's pouts would work in this situation.

Domi, I was going to mention that the Lissa episode brings to the fore one of his, if not his only, admirable character trait. While they do say there's someone for everyone, I cannot image who that would be for him... nor do I want to.

After the lust is gone, I still want someone I can look at. (wry grin)

I was teasing; no hostility was intended.

(warm smile) I understood that, Bob, and I certainly took no offense. I am a creature of insatiable curiousities and thought there might have been something more to your jest; a larger truth, if you will. With regard to your writing, I didn't mean to say that men don't write about men; I was headed in another direction. I can only assume, however, that wasn't your writing you linked.

Bren, I am tickling my muse in an attempt to come up with an introductory piece for this NPC. It feels more like a milestone, for whatever reason, so I am trying to just let it come. When it does, this post is where it will appear. (wink)

Any GF would have your hide for this reasoning in real life, you superficial twits, if you were a man.

(sly grin) Any girlfriend worth her salt would understand the reasoning and not dismiss it based merely on the claimants gender. Unless, of course, the claimant was indeed sexist themselves. Isn't it funny how easily a man can be labeled as such, when we all ...appreciate attractive people. I've had my moments of being swept away by devastating beauty... and some, not so devastating, but equally delicous.

Domi, (chuckle) Pouting becomes you. While it is certainly true that 'ugly is to the bone', my point about Jan still stands. They still have to be attractive to be interesting, yes?

Zandilar, you've written female erotica but no femslash? Wait, I don't really want to know the answer. Has any of this erotica seen the light of day? At your discretion, I would certainly be interesting in browsing a piece or two.

I suppose slash is unappealing to me because it defies the image I have of the male NPC's in question and, ultimately, because most of what I have seen is spoof. I do know that it is not because I have anything against homosexual sex (as it is, in fact, quite arousing... probably for the same reasons lesbian sex is arousing to men).

However, those characters that tend to get slashed are the "handsome" ones... I could see Anomen and Keldorn subject to slashing... Interesting that you didn't mention either of them.

Anomen and Keldorn are slashed, but I'm not so sure it's because they are handsome. I sometimes wonder if the authors think these characters might actually be homosexual based soley on their mannerisms. Regardless of the creative process involved, what point is there to write slash about the ugly? You want the reader to feel anything other than something ranging from discomfort to revulsion, right? This reasoning would, therefore, certainly preclude Jan, and Minsc is plainly too dim -- it would be truly distasteful to involve him. Korgan, I suppose, would be the only exception of the list, but that would only be because he swings to the other extreme - the ultra-macho.

There should always be a slight hint of truth or pre-judging, else slash is nothing -- It just falls flat. I, personally, have never understood slash; for the most part, it is crude and terribly unsatisfying.

What is femme slash? Women writing lesbians? It wouldn't occur for the same reason men don't write homosexual males.

Isn't it interesting that the majority of BG2 female NPCs have either been depicted as bisexual or lesbian in fan-fic or created as sexually agressive bi- or lesbian women by modders.

I think this would be based on the person who created the character or generated the story; and, quite possibly, how they picture themselves or their ideal sexual partner (Or, in the case of men, their fanatasy). To be fair, there is only one gay female NPC, that I know of, and that would be Chloe -- whom I have not played to completion. Imoen is hardly sexually aggressive. So I'm not quite sure what it is you are trying to say or hint at; do continue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the majority of modders be male? This might be a factor.

They may be indeed. But they are certainly more than a minority these days. A head count around these various forums would give you an idea.

Ah, Zandilar. (broad smile) Thank you for supplying me with such a feast (of knowledge, of course).

http://www.elvish.org/elm/names.html
Has few links which were quite good -- Don't let the name fool you, it linked a Common name dB also.

http://www.chriswetherell.com/elf/
I thought I had seen a direct translator in my travels, this is it.

http://www.barrowdow...leearthname.asp
Is quite interesting also. Gives Elven, Hobbit, Dwarven, Orcish and Adûnaic (?) names.

Well, it is good to see this thread bustling along.

Thank you for the links Domi. They were of little help but I do truly appreciate the effort.

I'm glad you dropped in Dorotea. The story theme you suggest is intriguing, but my Lore skills are not up to that challenge. I am rather capable of exploring human sexuality however. Although, based on the NPC's stats, one also has to wonder just how much she's capable of from an intellectual standpoint. If I attribute too much to 'it just comes naturally', it will loose the realists and realism that I want to maintain.

Melisah: I have given the matter more consideration. While you are correct that men can be as fickle, I wonder if the NPC would have to be half-elven else he be too old for some PC's to bother with. Girls do mature faster than boys; yes, there are exceptions, but is still the general rule. The obvious 'I am female, and therefore can speak from that perspective, as well as to a potential female or male mate' reason is a stronger consideration. While I could also speak from the male perspective, I'd rather 'play' a masculine female than an effeminate male. Ultimately, the strongest arguement is that I don't think I could do a male role enough justice given the nature of this mod.

A thought occured to me: Because of the nature of this mod I wonder just how hard I would have to work to see that the character wasn't 'one-sided'. The thought is provoked mainly by the reactions and labels that Viconia gets, based on her nature and race. While it is true, that she is drow and, based on their treatment of sex and indulgence in orgies, it's understandable how some could begin the virgin game and think she's slutty, I still wonder how she would be percieved were she anything but drow given the same written lines. My character will most probably surpass Viconia in her conversations relating to sex. Some people are still content to call Viconia a whore when that is literally not what she is. Might this NPC easily fall into the same catergory, regardless of alternate plots, soley because she speaks openly and candidly of sex? I won't even begin to discuss the way men and women are put in completely different categories based soley on gender when dealing with the act of sex. (A woman sleeps with 2 men in one week and she's a slut; a man sleeps with 2 women in one night and he's a stud, 2 women in a week and he's sowing his oats or something equally sexist.)

The other thought that occured to me: I do want the PC and NPC to have some intellectual sexual discussions. To clarify: If the PC were to talk to Madame Nin or a prostitute, depending or the stage and direction of the relationship, my NPC would interrupt with a discussion -- yes, interrupt, to set up some guidelines, and share beliefs -- on just what sexual intercourse, if that is what they were planning, means to the PC. The PC would have the choice of 1. attributing to a one-night stand, 2. a necessary act because they're lonely, or 3. x and z. That 'they didn't know what they were doing', wouldn't exist.
--If you answer 1 and you are committed to her, you'll get dialogue where she explains how she's engaged in that kind of sex and understands the want that goes with it, but knows herself well enough that it would bother her if you slept with someone else. If you go through with the act, and are comitted to her, it will (eventually) kill the relationship. If you are not committed to her, there will be some type of mixed banter. Likewise, she will continue to flirt with people (regardless of the level of involvement) and you'll have the opportunity (if you choose) to ask her to stop.
--If 2, she'll ask about pregnancy ...or something, anything.
Both will lead to a discussion of how sex is a powerful act. Much more than a means to an end -- if one wanted orgasm you'd only need yourself -- but for it to be more than masterbation it must involved people who care for each other and, unless lucky, have praticed with each other a few times to be truly able to satisfy each other. It'll get deeper and more poetic or erotic than that, but that's a rough draft of it.

I think these types of conversations are well within her stats. Anything too philosophical would be unrealistic, unless she were quoting from a book. Then, while I would love for it to be more, it is also limited by my own knowledge and abilities. I hope this doesn't scare you intellectuals away -- I'm really enjoying the reading. I am also realistic enough to know that this will be a while in the writing so I will surely learn a few things in that time to help flavor the storyline. I have already given myself research assignments, of a sort. Any suggestions from the audience for reading material?

I would also like dialogue to matter and stats will really come into play here - start down a path and you might wind up with a dead relationship because you're too dim or dull. They will appear, or not, based on charisma (lying or flirting), intelligence and wisdom (just how well your PC can communicate). Points will be assigned based on responses. This sounds like it's getting tricky; it's probably tricky technically, but I know it can be done if one has the patience to write it and code it.

I'm also dabbling with the idea of a tragedy.

A question: Am I correct in believing that the Romans and other such civilizations do not exist in the FR?

jester, you silly boy, I do not play with hamsters. I do have a soft spot for warm and cuddly things, however; rabbits are quite cute as well. Are you to be the foole of the thread then?

I do thank you all for your input.

Being chaotic good tends to lead to rather frivolous behavior, so your point is noted Sillara. Domi, your knowledge elven lore is apparent, as is my lack of it, now. Strictly out of curiousity, what name would be similar?

Ah Ismail, I was just thinking the same thing. I am human after all -- What else could I know better? She is certainly no monk, yet would not be daunted by one either. People are puzzles, and the right ones are challenges.

Hendryk, there is no such thing as a parentally-approved orgy, unless it involves food. (levels you a look) Do you really mean to say that you'd favor seeing little manequin people flailing on the floor? That is what it would look like, you know. The imagery is amusing enough, but hardly worth the effort. Besides, did I not point out the Angela chooses one mate? She might have a bit of fun with you in the choosing, however, hmm?

This is going to be an adult getting-to-know-you mod, if I can pull it off. Extended flirt packs, if you will. You all do know the difference between flirting and fu****g, right? I've already lightly flirted with several of you; it doesn't have to be anything overt, aye? The flirting will, obviously, get more and more serious.

I'm still mulling over that boring history. I find it interesting what is assumed already. I only said that growing up was a necessity but when coupled with her getting ~misty, you assume the parents fought? Have you never had a sibling who was so different from you and they knew it? -- something like my brother, so much so that he had people dropping him off at the house next door -- The father is merely over-bearing, he expects a lot from people. Something I certainly wanted to get away from growing up.

(grins) It's all in the words. Words (used properly) are the most powerful tool we have.

(chuckles) She will be vain, and at least mildly flippant, herself. Any other reason?

I do believe Jester is not a fan of romances.

(glances at Chaz) While I can appreciate that Grim is trying to be helpful, once is enough don't you think? Converserly, perhaps if you 'bothered' to check if you were signed in before posting, you wouldn't have to continually double-post.

Indeed, Domi, fun it should be. And with regards to statistics, it remains to be seen on which side of that equation I will fall. With a little help and a little luck, I'm hoping my imp stays on my shoulder for the duration.

In the meantime, here is a bit of filler for consumption and comment.

Angela, named after the woman who broke my heart. I do hope the name is not already in use. She will only actively romance the PC.

Class: Thief. I don't want any 'kit madness'.

Aerie - loves to hear her laugh, but has little patience for her misery
Anomen - he's quite cute, until he opens his mouth. She'll tear him up one side and down the other, or try to.
Cernd - this one may have eaten too many berries, but he's a good enough sort
Haer'Dalis - this guy, while fluid, is quite flaky - but still flirt worthy.
Imoen - she'll take to Imoen immediately and relentlessly flirt with her if the PC isn't interested, or it's not yet serious, but no futher.
Jaheira - she's stubborn, but Angie can appreciate why. She will fail like never before, in attempting to flirt with Jaheira.
Keldorn - he's sort'a cute, for an old guy, and she'll try to turn him as many shades of red as she can.
Korgan - no. Just... ...no. (she will give you an ultimatum)
Mazzy - she not a bad sort, but so uptight.
Minsc - he's okay, mostly like a dim big brother through.
Valygar - he's quite a looker, too bad he's so low-key.
Viconia - (snicker) I haven't quite decided about Viconia yet.

(who else did I forget -- rolls the eyes)

Were she a priest, she'd be tempted to favor Sharess. Instead, Lliira, or even Sune, is more to her discriminating tastes. She's known to frequently spout: Me mum didn't raise no fools. You notice her eyes wet with sadness when you ask her about it; growing up, for her, was a necessity. In general, life was made softer by her mother, but when she thinks of father... (more will follow)
LaLaLa ~And now she's on the road.

No, she's not a victim of anything, or so she says (and is not); just one of those who felt the need to go outward and onward. Still, she doesn't deal with harsh people very well and Anomen will remind her a bit of her father -- which is why she'll push him right to the edge if your PC doesn't stop her. Angela will flirt with about anyone but she's much more demanding when selecting her mate; she knows what she wants.

She will be human. She will only romance humans, half-elves, eleves, rare half-orcs and rare halflings.. all need to pass charisma and intelligence/wisdom checks. I'll be imposing severe stat checks on the half-orcs (intel/wisdom total) and halflings (charisma), because I can. I am also considering imposing class/stat checks, because it might be a good idea. Thoughts?

She'll be chaotic good, I do believe; we shall see how well I keep her there. This is my first NPC so it will be kept quite basic, mainly questless, yet chatty and catty. I've got a few other ideas about how I want to do things -- By sets of three the romance will progress to the next stage, you will ask her or she will ask you certain questions, and it will all be on a timer so one can't 'do the romance in 5 minutes'. You know the rest of the drill.

A thought: I certainly don't mean to make you uncomfortable, Melisah. I just thought you may have had some input there. I was mistaken and leave you to hiding behind that chair. Mayhap someone else would care to engage me.

I give your thoughts the consideration they deserve, Domi. I would thank you for them, as well. This, however, will not be some tawdry, teen-angst bit -- Though I certainly will draw that element. I am specially noting 'making the character one-dimensional'.

Backstory will take a bit of actual thinking.


edit--
She wouldn't be much like Inara since I don't know who Inara is.

undoing those... locks, can be a bit tricky as well.

Not much if you can use almost identical dialogues for both.

But ultimately, that is only satisfactory to one side of the coin.

I almost liked the way you think Ismail, but this character is certainly no drow. This will not be another Viconia. While I can appreciate Viconia for what she was, this is one woman who know what she wants. However, she will be quite content to play with you, ensuring you meet her requirements. That would mean, then, if she runs cold you aren't getting anywhere with her. But what race would she be. I'm wondering about elven, but we shall figure that out eventually.

But yes, a woman; I don't think a man would be fickle enough. Would you care to discuss this Melisah?

A swashbuckler. I suppose we would have to discuss the more mudane statistics at some point. I do believe a cavalier swashbuckler would fit quite nicely.

st:12 dx:18 cn:14 in:10 wi:12 ch:16 = 82

Yes, I realize she has a low constitution, but I'd rather her be a charmer; I shouldn't need to explain this further. She not exactly dim, but she's not interested in worldly events -- She is more interested in enjoying herself and her life. Mundane history will come, eventually, as well.

A bard class is also tempting, but I would have to give her lower charisma and I cannot do that in good conscience. This is not a mod for kits and other boring combat related considerations. This is a mod for ...

This would be a mod for the undersexed.  All of us, I should say, as one cannot have enough of that.  Naturally it shall include romance and flirts.

The main character is bi-sexual; built for both, and for most possibilities.

A sorc or a thief/mage.. One cannot be too sure of these things at this stage.
who cares about stats - but they must have reasonable dexterity for performance and constitution for endurance.  Banter and sex is what this mod will be about and will be it's focus.  I'd like to see how far we can push the envelope before it starts to ..resist.

Now, what do you all think?

Hmm. I would say the most sound reason for anything would be so that she had the ability to ..endure all the hunting she would have to do.

But with that high dexterity, she would do well enough.. yes. B)