42 replies to this topic

[Eon Blue Apocalypse]

Horred already dropped the XP of each creature you meet.  This was to slow down the fast pace players were advancing.  He also reduced the XP for learning spells and removing traps.  Play BGT without BP (you can advance to level 4 before going into the Nashkel mines just by removing all the traps and locks around Beregost.  So the BP game is adjusted better than a normal SOA game.

I have used a few forcespell scripts for my enemies and I am not always thrilled with the idea of the enemy "cheating" like that.  No level 7 wizard should be able to cast 5 sets of magic missles.  Same with some of the tactics scripts.  Why can't I get my gnome to move that fast or hit every time he swings a staff?  It is unrealistic.

I'm aware of horred already having changed the XP of many creatures, but tht balance seems to get disturbed again as new content is added. Wouldn't it be simpler to increase XP/level rather than having to reduce all the xp of enemies again? Maybe as an optional component for those who want a harder game still.

[Ferrumach]

This discussion is interesting...i want to add my point of view
( sorry for this presentation )

3 facts
*Xp : 3.500.000 after the underdark with BP "vanilla" + nej ( 200.000 xp for each member for this mod.) i can kill drizzt with improved alacrity...
*TDD spells are very powerfull...and it is difficult to say "i am not going to use it ": it is an interesting part of BP the new spells
*items very powerful ( bloodbane!, vecna ( *3!( tdd, sos and soa( new merchant)), celestial fury(nej) a ring of TS etc..) same problem as above .

I agree with Hlid but the fact is we know all the system of fights, where are the creatures..thus it is difficult to say : i am not going to buff my team to play in a true RP(?)

I think mods make evoluate BG2...and the "cheese" of battles or tactics are logical to keep the challenge...

I want to add too, i finished BP with a" poor team" with the highest difficulty
jaheira
aérie
edwin
nalia
haer d'halis
Me ( wizard/priest)


With this team:

In TOB there was 3 difficult fights ( but doable)
abazigal
sendai (with oversight)
the final fight against A.

In SOA there was several emblematic fights too easy
Bodhi (chapter 6 and chapter 2 too..but less...)+++++
Irenicus ++++
TDD dragons ( the dracolich)+++
twisted rune +++
Frikraag ++
vampires ++
basic lich ++
Demogorgon++

In SOA theres are several difficult fights (but doable, except the two last...)
illithids ( SOA, SOS....) + :thumb:
ullitharids + :thumb:
adalon +++
ritual(the quest + pontifex...) (tactics ) ++
red poison encounter (tactics ) ++
docks lich +
kangaxx +
Kuroisan +
Samurai undead ( TS) +
HP and skulley + :thumb:
cyric ( tdd ) +
Yxunomei ( nej) ++
Histachiis ( nej) +
master werewolf ( sos) +
vales of shadows ( before the fix) +++++
chromatic dragon+++++

Would it be possible to increase the XP needed for each level of al the classes by say 50%, or is that hard coded?

i think it is a good idea and maybe more simple to add ?

Edited by Ferrumach, 26 October 2004 - 10:05 AM.

[Sir BillyBob]

I would assume it is possible. I think most kits and classes use 2DA files to control leveling. If so, it would just be a matter of customizing them.

[hlidskialf]

I would assume it is possible.  I think most kits and classes use 2DA files to control leveling.  If so, it would just be a matter of customizing them.

It's an easy tweak. Modify the XPLevel.2da to your heart's content. (However, having done this, it's not AD&D cannon anymore. )

[Radagast-The-Brown]

Horred already dropped the XP of each creature you meet.  This was to slow down the fast pace players were advancing.  He also reduced the XP for learning spells and removing traps.  Play BGT without BP (you can advance to level 4 before going into the Nashkel mines just by removing all the traps and locks around Beregost.  So the BP game is adjusted better than a normal SOA game.

I have used a few forcespell scripts for my enemies and I am not always thrilled with the idea of the enemy "cheating" like that.  No level 7 wizard should be able to cast 5 sets of magic missles.  Same with some of the tactics scripts.  Why can't I get my gnome to move that fast or hit every time he swings a staff?  It is unrealistic.

Hmmm in my game (SoA-ToB-BP and some mods) I still get full xp for disarming traps and learning spells.Unless I need BGT to see this change.

I would assume it is possible.  I think most kits and classes use 2DA files to control leveling.  If so, it would just be a matter of customizing them.

It's an easy tweak. Modify the XPLevel.2da to your heart's content. (However, having done this, it's not AD&D cannon anymore. )

Of course its not ad&d...I care for ad&d rules only where they SHOULD apply and surely the xp table is not NEEDED for the game to be like ad&d.(much more ad&d issues are of priority...Besides when u get 9000xp from a 9th level spell(there are hundreds in BP=infinite xp) or 3250xp from a trap is it ad&d??? of course not. In ad&d u actually get 0 xp when learning spells, u just learn them.So unless the xp system is not fair in these regards, then certainly I TOO agree with the 50% more xp needed for each lvl up...(though its a little harsh on high levels) Perhaps 30%-40% more xp would be more reasonable...

PS : As for the cheating I said earlier, of course I use as minimum cheesy tactics as I can in the game.(of course I never exit buildings to resume battle later - Rule)
But still people use that and much more.Its hard to throw away powerful weapons. Even when role-playing a character he would hardly throw away the weapon or sell it.A true character would always keep the best weapon he can.Of course this becomes broken when u find the acidic katana or any other broken bp weapon or other mod weapon.In such a situation someone should just look the other way and have the courage to sell it or throw it.Something REALLY hard for most players...

[mildImp]

This might be a fairly naive question, but is there a way to globally apply multipliers to enemy hp? It seems unlikely, but I thought Id ask.

[hlidskialf]

This might be a fairly naive question, but is there a way to globally apply multipliers to enemy hp?  It seems unlikely, but I thought Id ask.

Just increase the difficulty level in the configuration setup.

[CamDawg]

Yes. If you're looking to increase it, you might try G3 Tweaks--we include a component that calculates what a creature's HP should be with maximum HP dice rolls. If that total is higher than the current, it alters the HP so you'll always have the higher of current HP or theoretical maximum for non-party creatures.

If you want to just do a universal adjustment, the tp2 code is very simple. I can post some if there's any interest.

[mildImp]

This might be a fairly naive question, but is there a way to globally apply multipliers to enemy hp?  It seems unlikely, but I thought Id ask.

Just increase the difficulty level in the configuration setup.

I thought uping the difficulty level simply increased the damage done by enemies.

[hlidskialf]

This might be a fairly naive question, but is there a way to globally apply multipliers to enemy hp?  It seems unlikely, but I thought Id ask.

Just increase the difficulty level in the configuration setup.

I thought uping the difficulty level simply increased the damage done by enemies.

Depends on the game. I never use it so I might have mis-remembered for BG, but for certain it's applicable to the IWD games.

[Shiva]

Ok... i've dropped FR RoV.... items upgrade, ruad... magnificent magic store...

Does anybody know if the following would over power game...

FW Improved Item Pack
Underepresented items
Apac's rogue rebalancing
Munch mod



Secondly, I hear TDD is just one big unbalanced mod....
could an idea to patch it, toning down items in earlier parts of game....be possible?



Finally,
Hlid..... is the brown drag encounter in DSoA the same as the stand alone version?


Finally, finally.... does virtue mod have any complications...?




Lots of questions, but eh... I'm sure they would serve everyone. :thumb:

[Sir BillyBob]

TDD gives you some really powerful spells and weapons. Use your own judgement on using them. Otherwise, the actual battles and quests are much cleaner under BP. SoS gives you some really powerful items too, so don't think just TDD is overpowered.

I've used the rogue rebalancing mod. Most of it works fine in BP but I thnk it is the proficiency changes that may cause problems. I just installed the tougher shadow thieves and black market segment of the mod. This lets thieves use some new shields so that may be a balance issue for you.

[hlidskialf]

Ok... i've dropped FR RoV.... items upgrade, ruad... magnificent magic store...

Does anybody know if the following would over power game...

FW Improved Item Pack
Underepresented items
Apac's  rogue rebalancing
Munch mod

Munchmod is much like FR_ROV, only it's less extensive. (To give you insight, it's named for "Munchkin", somewhat akin to cheesiness.)

Hlid.....  is the brown drag encounter in DSoA the same as the stand alone version?

The one in DSoA is better than the original, if only that the loot has been made somewhat more unique if nothing else.

[Shiva]

Sorry, and what about the planar sphere mod?

[wellunhappy]

The two items I know off in this mod are:

The eye of Vecna

Doubles all 1st Level Mage Spells
Doubles all 2nd Level Mage Spells
+10% Resistance to Magic
+2 Save vs. Death
+2 Save Versus spell
Immunity to Power Word Kill.
-2 to Charisma
-2 to Base hit points


Scroll of kaza, which basically turns you into a lich.

Abilities:
User is transformed into a lich and gains the following abilities.
-2 to dexterity
-4 to charisma
+1 to strength and constitution and inteligence
Spell casting speed increased by one.
+10 hitpoints
One extra 1st-4th level spell
Immunity to cold and level drain
Fire does extra damage
+2 bonus to save versus death and spells.
Protection from instant death and poison
Immunity to non magic weapons
Immunity to sleep spells and polymorph spells
50% resisitance to piercing
+10% resistance to all other forms of attack.
+5% magic resistance
Alignment set to neutral evil
Infravison
Part will loose 8 reputation points.
Gains abilty to control undead three times a day also gains the ability to lich touch 3 times a day etc, etc,.

YOU DECIDE

[Shiva]

this is planar sphere mod?
and i thought it was just spells....oooo

[Caedwyr]

Rogue Rebalancing (aPack) is pretty nicely balanced. None of the items you get in it are superweapons, and the powerful stuff needs to be earned the hard way. (Quite likely one of the toughest battles in the game, made extra hard by when it takes place).

If the FW Improved Item pack is anything like the original FW Item pack, then it features a load of seriously unbalanced gear.

Underrepresented items seems to feature a lot of high + items, (+4, +5 items), so I'd say that it is potentially unbalancing.

Edited by Caedwyr, 31 October 2004 - 03:10 PM.

[wellunhappy]

This topic just runs and runs, shiva obviously hit on a big issue but to quote seanas way back on page 1

?although at least the planar sphere mod gives you a couple of realy hard battles, to somewhat counteract the benefit of the spells and the items.?

And

?so if you want an even *greater* challenge, don't add any mods which add stores, items or spells. add those npcs that have tricky quests attached and play their quests through; and, because a number of the scripts in BP summon extra opponents depending upon yr difficulty level, turn the difficulty setting above 'core'.?

I think that covers it, I?d just like to add that BP Chateau Irenicus on the highest difficulty setting is nuts, if you want a challenge turn up the setting and install every mod you can lay you?re your hands on cos you?ll need it. :gun:

[seanas]

I?d just like to add that BP Chateau Irenicus on the highest difficulty setting is nuts, if you want a challenge turn up the setting and install every mod you can lay you?re your hands on cos you?ll need it. :gun:

or how about: the vale of shadows on any difficulty setting other than easiest, without the nerfs in the s_and_h patch installed? you can CLUA in all the items you want, and it's not gonna help when the armies of shadows and wandering horrors start coming for ya...

[jaegar]

I’d just like to add that BP Chateau Irenicus on the highest difficulty setting is nuts, if you want a challenge turn up the setting and install every mod you can lay you’re your hands on cos you’ll need it. :gun:

or how about: the vale of shadows on any difficulty setting other than easiest, without the nerfs in the s_and_h patch installed? you can CLUA in all the items you want, and it's not gonna help when the armies of shadows and wandering horrors start coming for ya...

Invisible Viconia (with AI off, converted to light to change alignment) running around and turning undead? She jumped from 14% to 25% total kill thanks to chunking Vamps in Chapter 6 graveyard hehe.