44 replies to this topic

[SimDing0]

Cleric Remix = disallowed items without red backgrounds???????///

[CamDawg]

It is planned as optional, since I personally think it stands out severely as mod content.

[SimDing0]

Okay, cool.

[igi]

I think the red background should be dropped entirely (except perhaps, for truly magical or divine items, which a player cannot actually equip because of the intervention of another power).
I also think that almost anyone should be able to equip almost anything (even if they don't gain benefits from it).

[SimDing0]

Latter, yes, and "Universal Everything" is on my todo list.

Former, no. I certainly don't want to have to mess around trying on items to find that I can't use them.

[CamDawg]

I really don't think thieves should be able to backstab with large, bulky weapons like two-handed swords; it's bad enough they can do it already with staves. Being as some kit and class abilities are hardcoded to these flags, it's difficult to go universal without compromising the backstab system or invoking some gawdawful hack.

[the bigg]

You can add at install time the 0x107 effect: Backstab Modifier to any items of your choiche, using the 0% setting (0 / 2). You would show something like "Backstab: 1x damage" when backstabbing, but the damage would be OK. Actually, you could try to change that string to "Your weapon is too bulky"... Or would that show also on swashbucklers? worth investigating, anyway IMHO

[Andyr]

It is planned as optional, since I personally think it stands out severely as mod content.

Which items were you wanting to do this for?

[SimDing0]

The way I'd hoped to do it does, in fact, not work.

I am considering other hacks around it. However, one alternative is to have weapons reduce the backstab modifier while equiped. Small weapons would cause no reduction, while a two-handed sword would reduce it by... 5 or so. Hence, a 40th level thief could attempt a fairly shitty backstab with a two-handed sword.

Actually, I quite like that idea.

How does AoE handle backstabbing?

Edited by SimDing0, 21 March 2005 - 06:33 AM.

[CamDawg]

It is planned as optional, since I personally think it stands out severely as mod content.

Which items were you wanting to do this for?

We discussed this on IRC as an idea to implement the cleric kit usabilities as they were originally intended without mucking around with the usability flags or vanilla clerics. I thought you were present for the discussion, but it may have been igi and possibly Grim. Igi's tool is posted somewhere on the forum (and you posted in the thread to boot ).

[Sir Kalthorine]

igi made a tool to do just that for use in CR which we have not integrated yet--we would compile a list of items to be added to the spell at runtime and it would generate a spell with the proper list of disallow item opcodes.

That sounds like a good option... if I have the option of duplicating the idea to use with Chrysta, I would be very grateful

And big thanks to Littiz, bgt_ini, CamDawq, the Bigg, SimDing0, Andyr and others who have contributed to the discussion. I have learned a great deal here, and I am confident that I can at least come up with a workable solution... eventually

Edited by Sir Kalthorine, 21 March 2005 - 06:42 AM.

[the bigg]

How does AoE handle backstabbing?

It certainly did not in the mod-sensible code I wrote, and it has never been added.

Time for Ghrey to enter the pit and learn how to INSERT_BYTE without screwing everything up

[Andyr]

It is planned as optional, since I personally think it stands out severely as mod content.

Which items were you wanting to do this for?

We discussed this on IRC as an idea to implement the cleric kit usabilities as they were originally intended without mucking around with the usability flags or vanilla clerics. I thought you were present for the discussion, but it may have been igi and possibly Grim. Igi's tool is posted somewhere on the forum (and you posted in the thread to boot ).

Uh... I knew that. Just testing.

[igi]

My tool is currently languishing at the sekrit G3 forums. If you discount me downloading it, as I lost my local copy, the average download per release version is... 1.
I'll be happy to publically release it if anyone is interested. IIRC, it reads a directory of items, and makes a spell to disallow the use of those items.

[Sir Kalthorine]

My tool is currently languishing at the sekrit G3 forums. If you discount me downloading it, as I lost my local copy, the average download per release version is... 1.
I'll be happy to publically release it if anyone is interested. IIRC, it reads a directory of items, and makes a spell to disallow the use of those items.

I would certainly like to give it a try as an option for Chrysta, if you wouldn't mind

[Sir Kalthorine]

Hmmm... here is another thought for people to look at, laugh and then beat me over the head with

There aren't too many druid-usable items in the game that I want Chrysta to be able to use, specifically spears, staffs, wands and a few miscellaneous items.

So what about this as a possibility:

• Make a list of all the items (including those from common mods) that I want Chrysta to be able to use
  
• Make "Chrysta" copies of the relevant .itm files, i.e. ones with flags altered to make them usable by assassins.
  
• Ensure the "Chrysta" items are copied across to the override directory on install.
  
• Add elements to Chrysta's script that check if one of the items is in her inventory, and if so "destroys" the original and "creates" the version usable by her.
  
• Append scripting entries to thief NPCs so that if the "Chrysta" item is transferred to their inventories it in turn is destroyed and the non-Chrysta (original) item created in its place.

In other words, the Chrysta-usable item is only created when the original item is in her possession, and removed when it isn't.

Clumsy huh? The main downside to this that I can see would be making script files overly cumbersome and the resultant slow-downs that might ensue. It would, however, still allow the red shading for unusable items (which I want to keep if at all possible). Of course, I am bound to have missed something.

Comments would be welcome

[SimDing0]

Scripts won't run while you're on the inventory screen, so the player will have to return to the game for the items to be swapped in Chrysta's inventory.

[Sir Kalthorine]

Scripts won't run while you're on the inventory screen, so the player will have to return to the game for the items to be swapped in Chrysta's inventory.

Ah well, one more challenge to add to the list

[Sir Kalthorine]

OK, next try :^^:

One thought I have had recently is to:

• go ahead and make the druidic items usable by ALL thieves, using the WeiDU patching scripts mentioned above.
  .
  
• code a specific spell effect to make the druidic items I want Chrysta to be able to use and that are normally unusable by thieves unusable
  .
  
• When any relevant thiefly NPC (e.g. Imoen, Yoshimo, Jan Jansen, etc.) joins, run a script action that applies the "unusable items" effect to them, meaning that they would no longer be able to use the druid items.

This way, the druidic items that Chrysta can use would not be usable by other thieves - they wouldn't get the red glow normally associated with unusable items, but it is such a limited number of items (and ones that people should already be aware that thieves shouldn't be able to use) that this seems a reasonable price to pay.

So... where have I gone wrong in my assumptions THIS time, modding gurus?

[Andyr]

It might work but sounds hacky.

Also, why (in character terms) can she use Druid-only items when other Thieves can't? How necessary is it?